Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

[Alan Roi]

Georgiou raised a Mirror copy of Michael Burham as a daughter.

If you go to the alt universe to ##ck your alt children, to stop it being icky and weird, then congratulations! It's still weird and icky, and you are banana-pants to think it would be otherwise anywhere.

Although the Empress found a universe were the daughter she is into (romantically), was already screwing her brother. So incest is not such a big deal in the prime universe, and fingers crossed that Georgiou can make a successful love connection.

I guess the McAllister isn't really too far from how some Trekker feel Star Trek should be like.

 

[Tuskin38]

Tuskin38: Cornwell explicitly says that S31 is a critical intelligence division. Doesn't that imply it's not rogue or independent yet, but a part of the system, subject to some oversight?

I didn't say otherwise.

But I really, *really* want lots of hot fighty hatesex between Michael and Georgiou. Both actresses seem to be taking it that way in their performances...

Gross dude. They're basically mother and daughter.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Mirror Kira was either an insane nymphomaniac, from I'm guessing way too long (Months? Years?) in the agony booth, or she was a clever business woman paying for everything (loyalty and position) with sex, or the illusion of sex.

Dead inside, looking for a little joy, and not finding it = Psychopath.

 

[Vger23]

Mirror Kira was either an insane nymphomaniac, from I'm guessing way too long (Months? Years?) in the agony booth, or she was a clever business woman paying for everything (loyalty and position) with sex, or the illusion of sex.

Dead inside, looking for a little joy, and not finding it = Psychopath.

Sounds like my kind of lady.

 

[Romulan_spy]

8/10

Good
- Great scifi stuff in the Mycellian Network.
- Bringing Culber back!
- Some good character moments with Culber, Stamets, Tilly and Mae.

Neutral
- Section 31 stuff. Yeah it was cool to have the easter egg of Tyler tapping his comm badge TNG style. And having a black ops organization like S31 is cool but I am not sure they add that much to the story arc.

Bad
- The episode definitely cheated a couple times with the ticking clock premise by essentially pausing the danger to the Discovery in order to have a character moment only to resume the danger to the Discovery when it was convenient to ramp up the tension again.
- Tyler bores me and felt pretty wasted in this episode, literally taking up space. I am afraid the writers are bringing him back just to manufacture some relationship drama with Michael again. Please no!

 

[Jadeb]

Tyler was very forgettable and didn’t seem very Klingon. You’d think his time with L’Rell would have toughened him up.

 

[Mudd]

Mirror Kira was hot for everyone.

Actually, I kind of hated how the show eventually went all the way to Anything That Moves category from what was initially the ultimate expression of her all-encompassing narcissism.

A key feature of Trek's Mirror Universe, at least in its several reincarnations, is that women there are sexually aggressive if not voracious, and pretty much omnisexual.

Because, you know, evil.

How many women were on the DS9 writing staff?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Tyler was very forgettable and didn’t seem very Klingon. You’d think his time with L’Rell would have toughened him up.

So, he didn't remain Klingon?

 

[Turtletrekker]

So, he didn't remain Klingon?

 

[DEWLine]

Poetic justice for Voq: the bigot who found himself losing his self-perception in the quest for his idea of victory.

 

[Cyrus]

If Discovery go the route I'm kind of expecting, what we'll actually have is a kind of Starfleet Intelligence organisation just called Section 31.

Yeah, this is basically Starfleet Intelligence. They are calling it section 31 for brand name recognition, kind of like ENT did too. Also removes limitations of how far they can go to help Starfleet/Federation.

Producers are aware of the discrepancy with 24th century Section 31 and may even have a plan to show how Section 31 goes underground:

If you know Section 31, you know that by the time Deep Space Nine comes around they’ve gone underground and they are this mysterious organization—but there’s nothing official about it. In the promos [for season 2] that you’ve seen so far, Section 31 has a badge. There’s a ship and all these different things, so the question is: how do they get from here to there? What happened in that window of time between those two pivot points in Section 31’s evolution?

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/...le-yeoh-get-started-after-discovery-season-3/

 

[Search4]

So I was underwhelmed, and went for a 6. Just didn't grab me in many respects; the mycelial "stuff" just got more and more fanciful. However - one plot flaw I'd like to see addressed:

- Discovery tractors Spock's shuttle and its not Spock, its Georgio. OK.

Where was she going? Why take that shuttle anywhere if its just empty? Why run away from Discovery? Why not see it is a "dead end" and simply go back to the cloak/Section 31 ship once you know that? Was she flying away from the cloak ship? Was she on a separate mission? Why keep flying away for 2 episodes?

Sorry, we're up to Galaxy Quest level of "bad writing" here.

And its time to get on with the Red Angels or whatever.

 

[SJGardner]

A key feature of Trek's Mirror Universe, at least in its several reincarnations, is that women there are sexually aggressive if not voracious, and pretty much omnisexual.

Because, you know, evil.

How many women were on the DS9 writing staff?

Mirror Kira was introduced in the second Mirror Universe episode ever filmed, there wasn't much of a prior characterization of MU women to compare her to. Most of the sexually aggressive, manipulative, omnisexual characterization we saw in other episodes (Hoshi and Georgiou being the most obvious examples), originated from how Kira herself was portrayed starting with her second appearance in Through the Looking Glass. When she first appeared in Crossover, she didn't strike me as omnisexual or particularly voracious, she rather came off to me as someone narcissistic to the extreme. Nana Visitor played her that way and was quite disappointed when the producers decided to turn her into a depraved omnisexual just because she was evil.

 

[rocketdave]

As I was mulling over the episode some more, it occurred to me that now that Culber has been resurrected, he and his killer are sort of alike in a way. The real Ash Tyler was (presumably) killed by the Klingons and his personality was put into a new body, and then that body's original owner, Voq, murdered Culber, and now Culber is also alive in a new body. There's an interesting kind of symmetry to that... or at least I think there is.

 

[Succubint]

However - one plot flaw I'd like to see addressed:

- Discovery tractors Spock's shuttle and its not Spock, its Georgio. OK.

Where was she going? Why take that shuttle anywhere if its just empty? Why run away from Discovery? Why not see it is a "dead end" and simply go back to the cloak/Section 31 ship once you know that? Was she flying away from the cloak ship? Was she on a separate mission? Why keep flying away for 2 episodes?

Can't it be presumed that: She and her S31 team tracked down the shuttle first. Presumably only shortly before Discovery did. Georgiou beams on board the adrift shuttle, finds out Spock isn't there. Damn.

Then Discovery stumbles on the scene. Why run away? She's been warned not to make contact, perhaps. Her mission is classified after all. Thinks there's still info to be gleaned from the ship, maybe. So she scarpers. The S31 ship remains camouflaged and nearby while she tries to ditch the Discovery in the nebula, employs a fancy maneuver that's causes them to over-shoot. She's unsuccessful in shaking them, though, and is 'captured' and so she, and Leland have to come clean as to the fact that they are also on a mission to recover Spock.



Tuskin38: In rewatching an earlier scene between Pike and Leland he says something about : "...[garbled] the way I transferred to Starfleet Intelligence. I'm heading up Section 31."

Doesn't that pretty much mean that Section 31 is a part of Starfleet Intelligence, a division as Cornwell later confirms?

Didn't you claim: "And DSC doesn't say they're part of Starfleet Intelligence."

Leland does.

 

[Fleet Admiral Tuvix]

I had to give this episode a 7 if only because one of two things will happen:

1. Stamets doesn't actually have to have the arc of actually coping with loss; or

2. We get to see Culber (or Stamets?) die, again.

Both upset me for different reasons.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Roman Empire split in 2. So did the mormon church, Berlin and Dakota.

 

[Uhura's Song]

Did not read thru everyone's stuff. Posting after 1 watch. I liked it fine. Pinky swear was a little too much for me, and we never got the 'why Tilly?' thing explained to my satisfaction. Gave it a 6 but perhaps should have gone 7.

Liked:
Georgiou/Spock fake. Michelle Yeoh.
Pike again.
Special effects were fanrastic.

Did not mind:
Burnham's dialogue.
Tyler.

Section 31. I am in the camp that thinks there is probably some sort of intervening event that causes them to go underground or be disavowed officially. But that won't happen soon else Yeoh does not have a show. And they could not just start a Sec 31 show cold. There had to be an introduction. And they needed a reason to get Tyler back on Discovery. Fine with it.

Also fine with the Red Angels taking a back seat. Thought one issue with S1 was it was too focused on the war. Save the Pahvo episode. I enjoy some focus on the characters/adventures of Saru, Tilly, Stamets, Culber, Tyler, & Georgiou. And Amanda. It makes the show richer in my view.

As for the ultimate spore drive & red angel/signal stuff? I thought one was causing the other. But that is out.

I guess Stamets (to preserve the network) and StarFleet (resurrection worries) will shut it down in the near future.

As for the signals? I find the temporal aspect intruiging and worrisome. Time travel? Again?#%! Come ON!

The only way it works for me is if they try to fix the whole Kelvin timeline in Disco. I mean, ST4 is dead. Tarrantino Trek? Who knows. What if Spock met Kelvin Spock or Prime-Spock returned to Kelvin (Nimoy). He thought he was going crazy at first but then becane convincedand some terrible future awaits the Federation/Galaxy that he HAD to escape to prevent? Reaching, I know.

 

[DaveyNY]

I agree with Picard's decision not to infect Hugh.

Remember, the BORG is entirely made up of beings who have not chosen to be such, but were forcibly assimilated (injected with the Nanites), against their will.
And it was shown several times that beings could be removed from the Collective and still survive, without the need to continue assimilating others.

The only being in the Collective who truly deserved to be nullified was the Queen, as she was the only one who retained her Free Will after being assimilated.

Wiping out the entire Collective without at least trying to save as many as possible, is also Genocide.

 

[cooleddie74]

As I was mulling over the episode some more, it occurred to me that now that Culber has been resurrected, he and his killer are sort of alike in a way. The real Ash Tyler was (presumably) killed by the Klingons and his personality was put into a new body, and then that body's original owner, Voq, murdered Culber, and now Culber is also alive in a new body. There's an interesting kind of symmetry to that... or at least I think there is.

This is true. Neither man is in his original body and at best is a painfully-assembled replica of their old self.

One could also argue that Harry Kim after "Deadlock(VOY)" is also not the "real" Harry Kim since the Harry that arrived in the Delta Quadrant in 2371 was killed when Voyager was duplicated by the spatial scission and his exact duplicate replaced him aboard the original Voyager for the remainder of the series.