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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x05 - "Saints of Imperfection"

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Giving this one a 6. Definitely the weakest episode of the season for me. I feel like there is a lot of set up for future episodes here, but it felt really cluttered.

Positives is that I don't mind the section 31 stuff. It's entirely plausible that they started as a fairly mundane secret service or future C.I.A that just fell too far down the rabbit hole and had to be expunged. Plus a ot can happen and be forgotten in 100 years. I also liked that we've got Culber back .

Next week looks outstanding.
 
Could they not detect whether it was a Vulcan life sign on the shuttle?
Also a medical shuttle shouldn’t really have weapons.
 
Saints of Imperfection
I really, really enjoyed this episode!

This episode had a really good structure: While the last episode was a bit over the place with it's different story-arcs, this one had a very clear main story, and all the side-stories were clearly integrated and in service to this one. Very well done! I'm going to comment on each of the plotines individually a bit:

A-plot: The journey to Mycelial Network
This plot had a lot of things going for it, but the two major things standing out are:
  1. It was fucking bonkers. A bit scary. And weird. Always a plus in my books
  2. It was a premise unique to the show - only DIS could have pulled this story off, because it was built on the specific premise of the show
That's how it's supposed to be done! Last weeks red blob (which I also liked) could have happened to any other Trek crew on any show. The journey into the mycelial network? This could have only happened on DIS. I still don't really like the idea of the universe-spanning subspace mushroom. But once the show already established that - it's great to follow up on that in such a unique manner!

I loved the journey into the weird world. Tilly and her friend had great chemistry, the "away mission" to save her was the type of stuff I love Trek for, the Discovery being half-sunk into it was a great visual, and it was all around just the right mixture of fun, weird, exciting, scary and surprising. Thumbs up!

Culberts return
I... actually don't really care for Culbert? Like, I'm always not a fan of bringing dead characters back - I hated how it was done in Into Darkness and Transformers 2 (the previous two times Alex Kurtzman did it). Hell, I wasn't even too keen on bringing Nimoy-Spock back in "The Search for Spock".!

But:
As much as in TSFS - this was a good way to bring a character back. It was so unique to the premise, such a spectacularly unique one-time event, that it's absolutely impossible to replicate it for all the other dead characters. Especially if (as hopefully) the door to the mycelial network will be closed one time for good in or after the series. So while I'm not too keen about bringing Culberts back personally - the way how they did it was absolutely good.

Section 31
That's the main concern in this episode - I really hate the basic premise, but the execution has been fine this episode. It's obvious - at this point, for the writers - S31 is not the secret Cabal it was originally envisioned as, but a completely legit (if shady) intelligence agency. Like S.H.I.E.L.D over at Marvel, or James Bond's or Jack Bauer's division.

As such - a known, shady intelligence service - it was actually really well integrated into the main storyline. I like having help from a ship of a completely different division, not just only always another Starfleet ship. And, actually, I think the relationship between Pike and Leeland was kinda' great. I just have tremendous difficulties accepting MU Georgiou. Hadn't they depicted her as a cannibal and commiting mass-murder and genocide - I would have absolutely loved her appereance here!

As is - there is just too much off about the characters and concept in general to take it really serious. I really, really don't want to see her having her own show. But at this point, I'd actually don't really mind her continuing to appear on this one.


Other little nuggets I liked:
  • The pinky-promise between Tilly and the spore creature
  • Admiral Cornwell! Actually, the whole exchange between the three of them. Leeland: "Except if you like Georgiou" Both Cornwell and Pike at the same time: "No":guffaw:
  • The teaser for the next episode looks fucking fantastic! With completely new, unique and fucking cool ship- and alien design, and a great premise!
Nitpicks I didn't like:
  • The Burnham speeches are back. I think they are faaar to self-indulgend and self-important. At this point, I'd prefer the good old loogbook entries back. Or at least turn down the drama a notch down
  • So, uuuh, Culbert killed a tons of innocent aliens? Yikes.:crazy:
  • The endless teases for the search for Spock: At this point, I'm as uninterested in this arc as the Klingon war arc in the first season (though I don't loathe it as much as the MU arc)
  • Also, I had hoped the Tilly-subplot would have been connected with the main plot of the red angels. Sadly, it was not, so far just two plots running concurrently. Not bad, but a bit disappointing
Final words:
Overall, I really liked it. Hell, I liked most of S2 so far! It really felt like S3 of ENT - a big step up in their game! More focused storytelling, and especially covering more new ground that's unique to the respective series!

Final grade:
Right now I'm swaying between 8/10 and 9/10. I think I'll decide after I had more time to think about the individual episode, and maybe see how this episode integrates itself into the larger arc(s).
 
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So, uuuh, Culbert killed a tons of innocent aliens? Yikes.

I don't think Culber was killing them intentionally. Weren't the aliens basically treating him the way anti-bodies would treat an infection and trying to attack him, but dying in the attempt because he was foreign to the mycelial plane?
 
I don't think Culber was killing them intentionally. Weren't the aliens basically treating him the way anti-bodies would treat an infection and trying to attack him, but dying in the attempt because he was foreign to the mycelial plane?
Yeah, he definitely didn't intended to! But still - this one is going to weigh pretty heavy on him once he realised what happened. Even if you didn't intend to - killing a large number of innocent, intellingence beings should make you feel bad. Like, reeeeaally bad.
 
Could they not detect whether it was a Vulcan life sign on the shuttle?
Also a medical shuttle shouldn’t really have weapons.
With the tech that we've already seen Section-31 having, I wouldn't be surprised if Georgieu had something to mask her bio-readings.
As for the shuttle, Georgieu didn't find the shuttle by herself, remember Leland was apparently right there hidden in his camouflaged starship the whole time.
He might have been the one to fire the torpedoes without Discovery knowing.
(it's also possible that the Section-31 ship was preventing Discovery from obtaining readings from inside the shuttle)
:shrug:
 
I still feel that Tilly's transition from May's hostage to May's bestie happened a little quickly, but I'll see if my opinion of that changes when I rewatch the episode.

But the previous week Tilly was busy confessing how bad she felt in restrospect about how she treated real May like a jerk when they were in school, so it seemed to me like Tilly was looking at this to be an opportunity to make amends to dead May and redeem herself as well by finding it in herself to be spore May's friend.
 
Yeah, he definitely didn't intended to! But still - this one is going to weigh pretty heavy on him once he realised what happened. Even if you didn't intend to - killing a large number of innocent, intellingence beings should make you feel bad. Like, reeeeaally bad.

Which was why he was willing to die in the end when it turned out he couldn't leave. And I do have to point out, those 'innocent' intelligent beings were trying to eat him.
 
This episode was really bad. We're to believe people in the Star Trek universe have souls and Stamets plucked his lovers soul after death and it was given a new mushroom body in the mushroom universe? Dumb.

Also the aliens can make transporters and clone bodies in 60 seconds but cant deal with someone wearing bark? Also dumb.

This was less believable fantasy than anything in Star Wars.
 
Nhan is now Head of Security? That's a change from being called an engineering officer in the premiere.
She was saying security things last week, too - i guess we'll have to believe that identifying her as an engineer in "Brother" was a ruse.
 
This episode was really bad. We're to believe people in the Star Trek universe have souls and Stamets plucked his lovers soul after death and it was given a new mushroom body in the mushroom universe? Dumb.

Also the aliens can make transporters and clone bodies in 60 seconds but cant deal with someone wearing bark? Also dumb.

This was less believable fantasy than anything in Star Wars.
Perhaps you need to go back and check out some of the other 'Waaay Out There' Things that Trek has shown us in the past?
This isn't any more outrageous than say, a Salt Vampire, a Being (ODO) made entire of Play-dough or even Whoopie Goldberg playing an Existential Alien Bartender.
(just to name a few)

Is it possible that you've got just a tad bit of enmity toward this particular show and thus may be less forgiving?
 
This episode was really bad. We're to believe people in the Star Trek universe have souls and Stamets plucked his lovers soul after death and it was given a new mushroom body in the mushroom universe? Dumb.
Have you never watched the Search For Spock?

Also the aliens can make transporters and clone bodies in 60 seconds but cant deal with someone wearing bark? Also dumb.
Have you never watched Star Trek?
 
Bashir: Never heard of it.

Sloan: We keep a low profile.... We search out and identify potential dangers to the Federation.

Bashir: And Starfleet sanctions what you’re doing?

Sloan: we’re an autonomous department.

Bashir: Authorized by whom?

Sloan: Section Thirty-One was part of the original Starfleet charter.

Bashir: That was two hundred years ago. Are you telling me you’ve been on your own ever since? Without specific orders? Accountable to nobody but yourselves?

Sloan: Actually everyone knew about us a hundred years ago. I don’t get why everyone forgot.
 
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The point of being a graduate of Starfleet academy is that you can command subordinates to do their job well, while obeying and passing on orders from your superiors.

Not only does that mean that it is unnecessary that you are assigned to a field that you have an aptitude for, but that it is unlikely.

If you are an officer that can't serve with superlative distinction from any post fleetwide, then you are a liability who should not have graduated.

Specialists and the Enlisted, they are the ones who train for a specified field, and then get a job (in Starfleet) in that field.
 
Bashir: Bever heard of it.

Sloan: We keep a low profile.... We search out and identify potential dangers to the Federation.

Bashir: And Starfleet sanctions what you’re doing?

Sloan: we’re an autonomous department.

Bashir: Authorized by whom?

Sloan: Section Thirty-One was part of the original Starfleet charter.

Bashir: That was two hundred years ago. Are you telling me you’ve been on your own ever since? Without specific orders? Accountable to nobody but yourselves?

Sloan: Actually everyone knew about us a hundred years ago. I don’t get why everyone forgot.

O'Brien: Those are Klingons?!

Worf: We don't talk about it. Apparently none of the humans here ever did either, or like, any humans ever afterwards. Now that I think about it, that is kind of weird..
 
Bashir: Bever heard of it.

Sloan: We keep a low profile.... We search out and identify potential dangers to the Federation.

Bashir: And Starfleet sanctions what you’re doing?

Sloan: we’re an autonomous department.

Bashir: Authorized by whom?

Sloan: Section Thirty-One was part of the original Starfleet charter.

Bashir: That was two hundred years ago. Are you telling me you’ve been on your own ever since? Without specific orders? Accountable to nobody but yourselves?

Sloan: Actually everyone knew about us a hundred years ago. I don’t get why everyone forgot.
Perhaps because the people that knew, and might want to talk about it... all died.
 
The point of being a graduate of Starfleet academy is that you can command subordinates to do their job well, while obeying and passing on orders from your superiors.

Not only does that mean that it is unnecessary that you are assigned to a field that you have an aptitude for, but that it is unlikely.

If you are an officer that can't serve with superlative distinction from any post fleetwide, then you are a liability who should not have graduated.

Specialists and the Enlisted, they are the ones who train for a specified field, and then get a job (in Starfleet) in that field.

And yet, we've been subject to countless mediocre officers still employed and posted in Starfleet.
 
Another good episode. This season is coming along great. Fuller was clearly awful for Trek and having him gone has allowed the show to shift into something that is more like Trek of old. I like how the main arc is secondary to most episodes so far. It is more balanced than last season.
 
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