Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x10 - "Despite Yourself"

[Athena28]

How are they going to explain this in cannon? As far as we know [in TOS] no one ever went to the Mirror Universe prior to Kirk. DS9 Mirror eps. reiterated this. [Enterprise kept cannon by showing us only the Mirror crew.] I have 2 theories: 1. Discovery's crew will have their memories wiped when they return to "our" universe; 2. It's classified Top Secret Eyes Only so Kirk never knew and Discovery's crew is forbidden to speak of it.

Any thoughts or insights?

I love Mirror Universe eps. Those and time travel are my absolute favorites.

 

[ISS-Magnum]

I got bad feeling about Defiant.

What if Michael not only finds the ship, but also uses it to return to the Prime Universe? What's next?

Starfleet admirals look at the Defiant and think: "we got a good and funcional ship. Let's put it back in service".

Twelve years later, the ship will be captured by Tholians...

(By the way, Prime Tholians or Mirror Tholians? It seems like Tholians from the both worlds working together)

... the ship will be captured by Tholians and sent to 2155, where in turn, it will be captured by the Mirror Archer.

One hundred years later Michael will steal the ship, after that she will return to the Prime Universe.

Twelve years later, Tholians will steal it and sent to 2155.

Then the Mirror Archer will steal it.

And again and again and again

 

[SJGardner]

And again and again and again

Ah, the good old ontological paradox. I've always loved those. I believe TOS movies have already run into something similar with selling the future formula for transparent aluminum in the past or Kirk's antique reading glasses that, come to think of it, basically came from nowhere in the same fashion. I have a feeling that if Burnham uses the ship to return home, the most probable outcomes would be 1.) the incident staying an unexplained paradox entirely, 2.) blowing the ship up after getting everyone safely back home, or 3.) just sloppily imply a Section 31/Temporal Investigations coverup ('We have top men working on it right now' or something like it). I'm hoping the series will avoid creating problems like this and have the Defiant either remain where it is or be blown up, maybe with the Emperor on board.

 

[guyute03]

Really hope we get either an episode to show or at least get told about what happened with the Discovery's Mirror U counterpart ship, the ISS Discovery, assuming they switched places. Would prefer an entire episode showing Captain Killy in the prime Universe though.

 

[Spot261]

I got bad feeling about Defiant.

What if Michael not only finds the ship, but also uses it to return to the Prime Universe? What's next?

Starfleet admirals look at the Defiant and think: "we got a good and funcional ship. Let's put it back in service".

Twelve years later, the ship will be captured by Tholians...

(By the way, Prime Tholians or Mirror Tholians? It seems like Tholians from the both worlds working together)

... the ship will be captured by Tholians and sent to 2155, where in turn, it will be captured by the Mirror Archer.

One hundred years later Michael will steal the ship, after that she will return to the Prime Universe.

Twelve years later, Tholians will steal it and sent to 2155.

Then the Mirror Archer will steal it.

And again and again and again

I imagine over "time" the defiant would degrade through wear and tear, altering the way she performs in each cycle ever so slightly, causing minor changes to events until the cumulative effect becomes significant enough to alter whichever timeline she happens to be in, breaking the loop.

 

[Albinator]

Spoiler

How are they going to explain this in cannon? As far as we know [in TOS] no one ever went to the Mirror Universe prior to Kirk. DS9 Mirror eps. reiterated this. [Enterprise kept cannon by showing us only the Mirror crew.] I have 2 theories: 1. Discovery's crew will have their memories wiped when they return to "our" universe; 2. It's classified Top Secret Eyes Only so Kirk never knew and Discovery's crew is forbidden to speak of it.

Any thoughts or insights?

Spoiler

I love Mirror Universe eps. Those and time travel are my absolute favorites.

As mentioned by me and others previous-- because the Defiant will play a key role in returning them home, they absolutely cannot tell Starfleet about the Mirror Universe, or they risk events unfolding differently, and the Defiant not being there for them to use to return home. Classic time travel paradox.

 

[Tuskin38]

As far as we know [in TOS] no one ever went to the Mirror Universe prior to Kirk.

Exactly, as far as we know.

There is nothing precluding any classified events or not commonly known events happening before.

 

[Spot261]

As mentioned by me and others previous-- because the Defiant will play a key role in returning them home, they absolutely cannot tell Starfleet about the Mirror Universe, or they risk events unfolding differently, and the Defiant not being there for them to use to return home. Classic time travel paradox.

Maybe they don't get home and the ISS Discovery is conveniently picked off by Klingons before anyone notices the difference

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As mentioned by me and others previous-- because the Defiant will play a key role in returning them home, they absolutely cannot tell Starfleet about the Mirror Universe, or they risk events unfolding differently, and the Defiant not being there for them to use to return home. Classic time travel paradox.

And I'm sure it's hard for the Discovery crew to have to hold back on telling the Defiant's crew about what will eventually happen to them...

 

[SJGardner]

Would it be a good idea to actually use the Defiant to cross back over though? Wouldn't that basically mean leaving Discovery stranded in the Mirror Universe?

Perhaps quite implausible, but I can still totally imagine this unfolding in a way that they, upon returning home with the Defiant, find the ISS Discovery wreaking all kinds of havoc over here, and after stopping them, Starfleet might salvage the wreckage, recommissioning it as the USS Discovery and covering the whole thing up. The paradox caused by the presence of two Defiants would still be there, however, and I somehow don't think the eventual story would entail something that convoluted.

 

[Fateor]

I imagine over "time" the defiant would degrade through wear and tear, altering the way she performs in each cycle ever so slightly, causing minor changes to events until the cumulative effect becomes significant enough to alter whichever timeline she happens to be in, breaking the loop.

Doubtful, even the NX was able to survive more or less intact for a hundred years.

 

[Spot261]

Doubtful, even the NX was able to survive more or less intact for a hundred years.

True, but we are talking about a loop that would continue ad infinitum, "more or less" would still leave open the door for small changes in the timeline, a couple of thousand times around the loop and those changes wouldn't be so small. From the ship's POV (so to speak) time will still continue to flow and entropy would be inescapable

 

[Tuskin38]

Would it be a good idea to actually use the Defiant to cross back over though? Wouldn't that basically mean leaving Discovery stranded in the Mirror Universe?

Perhaps quite implausible, but I can still totally imagine this unfolding in a way that they, upon returning home with the Defiant, find the ISS Discovery wreaking all kinds of havoc over here, and after stopping them, Starfleet might salvage the wreckage, recommissioning it as the USS Discovery and covering the whole thing up. The paradox caused by the presence of two Defiants would still be there, however, and I somehow don't think the eventual story would entail something that convoluted.

Nothing says they need to bring the Defiant back with them, they just need the data about how they crossed over.

 

[SJGardner]

Nothing says they need to bring the Defiant back with them, they just need the data about how they crossed over.

Exactly, this is why I find it a bit weird to see it discussed whether the Defiant itself would degrade over the countless reiterations of "pulled over to the MU, going back in 2256, being recommissioned then disappearing again in 2268." They definitely don't need to use it and it would just cause more storyline- and continuity-related problems than what it's worth.

 

[Spot261]

Exactly, this is why I find it a bit weird to see it discussed whether the Defiant itself would degrade over the countless reiterations of "pulled over to the MU, going back in 2256, being recommissioned then disappearing again in 2268." They definitely don't need to use it and it would just cause more storyline- and continuity-related problems than what it's worth.

Because it was was a semi whimsical response to a totally whimsical suggestion about a temporal loop.....who knows, maybe people were just mildly amused by seeing where the idea went?

 

[SJGardner]

Because it was was a semi whimsical response to a totally whimsical suggestion about a temporal loop.....who knows, maybe people were just mildly amused by seeing where the idea went?

Sorry that I managed to sound more critical than I intended. I certainly didn't intend to present myself as the 'stop having fun' guy here... I myself was amused by the idea too, especially as it reminded me in part of the bit with Kirk's reading glasses in TWOK and TVH that apparently exist in a stable loop as well.

 

[Albinator]

Would it be a good idea to actually use the Defiant to cross back over though? Wouldn't that basically mean leaving Discovery stranded in the Mirror Universe?

Perhaps quite implausible, but I can still totally imagine this unfolding in a way that they, upon returning home with the Defiant, find the ISS Discovery wreaking all kinds of havoc over here, and after stopping them, Starfleet might salvage the wreckage, recommissioning it as the USS Discovery and covering the whole thing up. The paradox caused by the presence of two Defiants would still be there, however, and I somehow don't think the eventual story would entail something that convoluted.

I don't think they'll necessarily use the Defiant to cross back over, but use information from their logs, the interphase device, etc., and adapt the Discovery's systems to help them get home.

 

[SJGardner]

I don't think they'll necessarily use the Defiant to cross back over, but use information from their logs, the interphase device, etc., and adapt the Discovery's systems to help them get home.

I'm wondering whether they'll be simply able to replicate the interphase device from the Defiant's logs. I'd find it pretty neat if they needed to actually use Tholian tech for it and we'd have a reason to meet them again, even though I'm not counting on it happening at all.

 

[jaime]

As mentioned by me and others previous-- because the Defiant will play a key role in returning them home, they absolutely cannot tell Starfleet about the Mirror Universe, or they risk events unfolding differently, and the Defiant not being there for them to use to return home. Classic time travel paradox.

Nope. They can tell Starfleet. But Starfleet can do naff all about it, because then they don’t get home to tell Starfleet. Which means the Defiant is still lost, so they do get home, and tell Starfleet. Who can do Naff All about....
Altogether, in the sacred chant of Miles O’Brien.....

 

[Tuskin38]

The rebel database could also be out the date, the Defiant could have been scrapped years ago for R&D purposes.