Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x03 - "Context is for Kings"

[Albinator]

I must seriously rewatch this. It was definitely improvement over two-part as far as far as writing and story goes and I definitely like the characters. However I still don´t know why the inmates are acting like if Burnham started the battle (unless they count killing the torchbearer as such) and those spores really seemed like a too much strange idea (or maybe strangely presented). And this whole serialization is seriously troubling for the real judgement. The opinion is incomplete becouse the picture is fragmentarized.

Just keep in mind that the average officer/inmate we saw was not there, and did not know all of the details of what happened. Even Saru did not see what happened on the Klingon ship. They simply heard about a mutineer who got her Captain killed, tried to attack first, and assassinated the Klingon leader just before the war started.

As the old saying goes, perception is reality.

 

[Albinator]

It's a quote from Lorca during the episode

Aware of that, but I thought he was talking about something he was doing, not Burnhams actions. Worth a rewatch, regardless. Great episode.

 

[DigificWriter]

Lorca explains the episode title in the process of uttering it and refuting Burnham's assertion that Discovery is working on developing illegal weapons tech and that Lorca wants to use her as a "fall guy" if anything goes wrong.

 

[Mr Awe]

She should have fought back really, no wonder Lorca wanted her after reviewing all the facts.

Also no surprise it was a back door court martial either, if she had fought and made it public she would have won.

She felt guilty so she plead guilty. She betrayed her crew and killed her captain (in her own eyes). I'm not surprised that she plead guilty at all.

 

[Rhodan]

Just keep in mind that the average officer/inmate we saw was not there, and did not know all of the details of what happened. Even Saru did not see what happened on the Klingon ship. They simply heard about a mutineer who got her Captain killed, tried to attack first, and assassinated the Klingon leader just before the war started.

As the old saying goes, perception is reality.

Ironically enough, she could prevent it by her irrational shooting, reversed from Minbari war :-).

 

[Albinator]

Lorca explains the episode title in the process of uttering it and refuting Burnham's assertion that Discovery is working on developing illegal weapons tech and that Lorca wants to use her as a "fall guy" if anything goes wrong.

Rewatched that scene (something btw, I couldn't I couldn't have done so easily if it wasn't a streaming show) and as Gonzo says, he seems to be referencing her actions in the premiere (though it's a roundabout conversation so that's probably why I was initially misunderstanding).

He gets the context of her actions, and why he respects her, and wants her on this ship ("it's that kind of thinking that wins wars."). In fact the exact quote prior almost sounds like the way Picard described Riker to Pressman in "The Pegasus."

So without that context, I can understand why others would blame or at least hold her somewhat responsible for the deaths at least at the initial battle.

 

[Mirror_Barclay]

She was guilty of mutiny, just not of starting the war.

But yeah, I guess I can see how she'd feel guilty for flubbing the plan to capture T'Kuvma - even though she was the only one who thought of even trying.

 

[cultcross]

She mutinied and not a few hours later her captain's dead and her vessel adrift and abandoned, and an intergalactic war has begun. Regardless of her actual responsibility for those outcomes, it is almost inevitable she would be blamed for them.

 

[Noname Given]

After rewatching I like the ep a bit better.

I'm still troubled by the apparent confusion between what we saw in the two prologue eps and what everyone, including Burnham, seems to think happened. Her betrayal of her captain suffices for everyone's distrust and her being in prison. Why is she blamed for the war - which she seems to accept - when we saw that nothing she did actually made a difference to either the battle starting, or to the outcome of that battle?.

^^^
She killed (instead of captured) T'Kuvma. From the Federation side Command most likely believes the Klingons are fighting the war to avenge the dishonorable murder of their leader (he did call the ships using the Beacon and all 24 houses sent ships - so that's why the Federation sees him as the Leader.)

 

[cultcross]

We've also got to remember that whatever the Federation know about what happened on the Klingon ship comes from Burnham herself, who would hardly be considered a neutral or reliable witness. There is bound to be doubt as to her version of events.

 

[DigificWriter]

Rewatched that scene (something btw, I couldn't I couldn't have done so easily if it wasn't a streaming show) and as Gonzo says, he seems to be referencing her actions in the premiere (though it's a roundabout conversation so that's probably why I was initially misunderstanding).

He gets the context of her actions, and why he respects her, and wants her on this ship ("it's that kind of thinking that wins wars."). In fact the exact quote prior almost sounds like the way Picard described Riker to Pressman in "The Pegasus."

So without that context, I can understand why others would blame or at least hold her somewhat responsible for the deaths at least at the initial battle.

People may have drawn the conclusion that the episode's title and Lorca's quotation of it were in relation to her actions in staging a mutiny and (inadvertently) starting the Federation-Klingon War, but I read it as (also) being about him giving her the full context of what Discovery is actually up to and disabusing her of what she thought was going on based on not having the full context of the situation.

 

[Gonzo]

She felt guilty so she plead guilty. She betrayed her crew and killed her captain (in her own eyes). I'm not surprised that she plead guilty at all.

She did feel guilty but she didn't betray anyone, she was trying to save them and stop the war before it started, she didn't kill her Captain, T'Kuvma did.

Intent matters in such cases, betrayal requires intent, to kill, to destroy or deceive.

Its just like Lorca says "Context is for Kings".

I have always liked that saying and knew I would like the episode as soon as I saw it.

Context really is everything.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes she is..childish, I can't believe federation has that kind of cadet but I found her character really effective.

Have you met Finnegan?

 

[KirkusOveractus]

She did feel guilty but she didn't betray anyone, she was trying to save them and stop the war before it started, she didn't kill her Captain, T'Kuvma did.

Intent matters in such cases, betrayal requires intent, to kill, to destroy or deceive.

Its just like Lorca says "Context is for Kings".

I have always liked that saying and knew I would like the episode as soon as I saw it.

Context really is everything.

I would say giving your Captain a nerve pinch, going to the Bridge, pulling rank and saying the Captain is reviewing new information about the Klingons and these were her orders in the meantime is a good case for betrayal.

 

[Kemaiku]

She assaulted her commanding officer and tried to commandeer a starship to fire on another sovereign state.

War crimes, total breach of all protocol, treason, etc etc etc

She's only alive because Starfleet has one specific death penalty she didn't qualify for. And when it came time to undo her damage and not martyr a fanatic on a mission she brought about to prevent just that...she was the one that pulled the trigger and did it.

"Fuck up" doesn't cover it.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

She assaulted her commanding officer and tried to commandeer a starship to fire on another sovereign state.

War crimes, total breach of all protocol, treason, etc etc etc

She's only alive because Starfleet has one specific death penalty she didn't qualify for. And when it came time to undo her damage and not martyr a fanatic on a mission she brought about to prevent just that...she was the one that pulled the trigger and did it.

"Fuck up" doesn't cover it.

I think she should have gone for the Full Monty (Full Michael?) and did all that, plus take the Shenzhou to Talos IV.

 

[BillJ]

I think she should have gone for the Full Monty (Full Michael?) and did all that, plus take the Shenzhou to Talos IV.

Can't do that. That might have actually been interesting.

 

[Gonzo]

I would say giving your Captain a nerve pinch, going to the Bridge, pulling rank and saying the Captain is reviewing new information about the Klingons and these were her orders in the meantime is a good case for betrayal.

Lorca said it best, she was trying to do the right thing and context is king.

Captain Georgiou was outthought, outmanoeuvred and outgunned, same goes for Starfleet and that idiot Admiral.

Burnham was the only one who had the vision needed to see the real situation and the bravery to do something about it, I would have done a lot more to Georgiou than just give her a pinch, battles are won and lost by such actions.

That is why Lorca wants her on board the Discovery, I think she is going to learn a lot from him and may in time regain her rank.

I am not saying that as a fan of Burnham at all, she's ok but if she got sucked out into space and died in the next episode I would be fine for the focus of the show to switch to Lorca.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Lorca said it best, she was trying to do the right thing and context is king.

Captain Georgiou was outthought, outmanoeuvred and outgunned, same goes for Starfleet and that idiot Admiral.

Burnham was the only one who had the vision needed to see the real situation and the bravery to do something about it, I would have done a lot more to Georgiou than just give her a pinch, battles are won and lost by such actions.

That is why Lorca wants her on board the Discovery, I think she is going to learn a lot from him and may in time regain her rank.

I am not saying that as a fan of Burnham at all, she's ok but if she got sucked out into space and died in the next episode I would be fine for the focus of the show to switch to Lorca.

Vision is one thing, violating the chain of command in an impending combat situation is criminal. Burnham in pulling her stunts distracted a bridge crew from the situation at hand, and quite possibly could have swayed the fate of the Shenzhou and her crew right then.

Trying to do the right thing is one thing, but how you do that thing is quite another. Burnham did it all wrong.

 

[Gonzo]

Vision is one thing, violating the chain of command in an impending combat situation is criminal. Burnham in pulling her stunts distracted a bridge crew from the situation at hand, and quite possibly could have swayed the fate of the Shenzhou and her crew right then.

Trying to do the right thing is one thing, but how you do that thing is quite another. Burnham did it all wrong.

Except we now that they were only lured their to die, Burnham knew it too and what was coming and she tried to stop it.

Fair play to her if you ask me.