Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x02 - "Battle at the Binary Stars"

[Charles Phipps]

They believe in isolationism andanti-immigration. Very much Trump and the alt right. Their "remain Klingon" view is "America First" thinly veiled. Their desire to "rescue" the Klingon Empire from galactic influence is a thinly veiled commentary on the resistance of the far right to globalisation.

Islamists are religious fundamentalists. Frankly I'd argue that these Klingios are more like Trump and his followers than Islamists, albeit I acknowledge the similarities with the latter.

There's a rather easy rebuttal for the fact it's not an analogue for Trump or his followers actually. I hate to really shoot this down with a photon torpedo of logic but....Discovery has been in production for five years. Trump has only been a Presidential Candidate and President for 2. Most of the stuff which people claim it's parodying HADN'T HAPPENED YET. It takes awhile to make a dozen episodes.

But in simpler terms, this is a Klingon group of religious extremists (they drive around an ancient tomb ship and talk about falling from the path of Kahless), they're trying to form a new Caliphate which would restore Kahless' ancient empire of united Islam/Klingon Houses, and they're calling for the destruction of the Federation due to its secular Westernized life.

It's ISIS not a greedy racist old real estate mogul.

Or maybe it's just Klingons. Who knows.

I assume you are American, yes? Perhaps as much as you are liberal there is a still a certain denial about just how dangerous and undemocratic a path your country has embarked upon under Trump?

I've actually received hate mail about my books and death threats because one of my villains was assumed to be a parody of Trump (he was a analogue to the Red Skull and Kang the Conqueror) so I have both: 1. Very little love for Trump or his supporters 2. A certain level of skepticism that everything has to represent commentary on the current US political crisis.

 

[Longinus]

As I've said before, the Klingons in this show represent fanatical, ultraconservative xenophobic thinking, this is why they resemble both the far right and the Islamist extremists.

In any case, I really hope we get to see some Klingons that are not like that, otherwise it will become too easy to view them just as demonised 'other'.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

There's a rather easy rebuttal for the fact it's not an analogue for Trump or his followers actually. I hate to really shoot this down with a photon torpedo of logic but....Discovery has been in production for five years. Trump has only been a Presidential Candidate and President for 2. Most of the stuff which people claim it's parodying HADN'T HAPPENED YET. It takes awhile to make a dozen episodes.

Um, this is bollocks...and it's bollocks because of logic. A series being in development for five years doresn't mean the story arc was decided five years ago. What's more the makers of teh show have openly admitted the Klingons provide a commentary on both Trumps America and the likes of North Korea. So you're talking shit.

But in simpler terms, this is a Klingon group of religious extremists (they drive around an ancient tomb ship and talk about falling from the path of Kahless), they're trying to form a new Caliphate which would restore Kahless' ancient empire of united Islam/Klingon Houses, and they're calling for the destruction of the Federation due to its secular Westernized life.

There is no discussion of religion. Kahless is a historical figure in Trek lore. There is no discussion of a deity.

I've actually received hate mail about my books and death threats because one of my villains was assumed to be a parody of Trump (he was a analogue to the Red Skull and Kang the Conqueror) so I have both: 1. Very little love for Trump or his supporters 2. A certain level of skepticism that everything has to represent commentary on the current US political crisis.

That doesn't mean you can't still be in denial about how far your country has sunk. It has gone from being a beacon of hope and freedom to the least democratic country in the West.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

As I've said before, the Klingons in this show represent fanatical, ultraconservative xenophobic thinking, this is why they resemble both the far right and the Islamist extremists.

In any case, I really hope we get to see some Klingons that are not like that, otherwise it will become too easy to view them just as demonised 'other'.

Exactly. To pretend they don't represent the alt right that is propping up the likes of Trump is to be in denial.

 

[OpenMaw]

It has gone from being a beacon of hope and freedom to the least democratic country in the West.

That's pushing it...

 

[Longinus]

That's pushing it...

Yeah, I really don't think many non-Americans ever though it as 'beacon of hope and freedom.'

 

[Smoked Salmon]

That's pushing it...

No, it really isn't. Poisoned by toxic partisanship that is destroying democratic dialogue. More gun deaths than over 200 countries, including war zones. Profiling and banning people based on their religion, ethnicity and passport. Politically appointed judiciary. A president who lies on a daily basis, stokes the fires of nuclear war, relies on racists for support and tries to muzzle dissenting press....and that's just the surface. America is a disaster right now...and yes, on comparsion, now the least democratic of all western nations quite frankly. Not that I particularly want to derail this thread with a political debate.

 

[OpenMaw]

Yeah, I really don't think many non-Americans ever though it as 'beacon of hope and freedom.'

That depends on who you ask. I've known many immigrants who felt that way about the United States. Particularly older generations of folks from Baltic and middle Eastern countries.

But no, I don't think the United States in anywhere near the worst for Democratic rights.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Um, this is bollocks...and it's bollocks because of logic. A series being in development for five years doresn't mean the story arc was decided five years ago. What's more the makers of teh show have openly admitted the Klingons provide a commentary on both Trumps America and the likes of North Korea. So you're talking shit.

I can tell you that almost certainly the show was pitched as a Prequel about the Fedeation-Klingon War since you don't change your basic premise in the last couple of years. Also, producers and writers lie. They lie constantly to drum up interest like Joss Whedon saying he'd never kill Tara or about how Khan wasn't in Into Darkness.

There is no discussion of religion. Kahless is a historical figure in Trek lore. There is no discussion of a deity.

Are you serious? You do realize Kahless is the focus of the Klingon religion, right? They even had him come back from the dead as a part of their faith.

That doesn't mean you can't still be in denial about how far your country has sunk. It has gone from being a beacon of hope and freedom to the least democratic country in the West.

I'm sorry but speaking as someone who actually is in the country and watching the man attempt to remove our free medical care which will KILL people *I KNOW* I think I have a better idea of just how much damage the man will do. The United States voted in Trump because of a variety of reasons but he won by a slim majority of electoral votes and lost by the majority of votes. He's also broken most of his promises to his quote-unquote supporters, not the least being rebuilding America's devastated Rust Belt.

Many Americans actively work against him every day and write their Congress and Senate to oppose him--which the Left of my country have utterly failed to do.

 

[Noname Given]

They believe in isolationism andanti-immigration. Very much Trump and the alt right. Their "remain Klingon" view is "America First" thinly veiled. Their desire to "rescue" the Klingon Empire from galactic influence is a thinly veiled commentary on the resistance of the far right to globalisation.

Islamists are religious fundamentalists. Frankly I'd argue that these Klingios are more like Trump and his followers than Islamists, albeit I acknowledge the similarities with the latter.

I assume you are American, yes? Perhaps as much as you are liberal there is a still a certain denial about just how dangerous and undemocratic a path your country has embarked upon under Trump?

The whole ardent "Remain Klingon" stance could be viewed as a modern allegory to the situation in America, yes. It could also be viewed in terms of Adolf Hilter's "Aryan purity" stance that was a part of his rise to power and the eventual descent into WWII. Neither stance is unique across human history, it's popped it's way into many a civilization and conflict.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

The whole ardent "Remain Klingon" stance could be viewed as a modern allegory to the situation in America, yes. It could also be viewed in terms of Adolf Hilter's "Aryan purity" stance that was a part of his rise to power and the eventual descent into WWII. Neither stance is unique across human history, it's popped it's way into many a civilization and conflict.

Don't disagree with that at all. But Star Trek tends to tell stories about the world at the time it is made, and this is an American show being made in the era of Trump.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I really wish they had come up with a better name. "Battle At the Binary Stars". Which binary stars? A great number of known systems today are binaries. You might as well call the Battle of New Orleans, the Battle At A River Bend. For a franchise that is typically very specific about names for planets and systems, this is a puzzling omission.

 

[Refuge]

There's a rather easy rebuttal for the fact it's not an analogue for Trump or his followers actually. I hate to really shoot this down with a photon torpedo of logic but....Discovery has been in production for five years. Trump has only been a Presidential Candidate and President for 2. Most of the stuff which people claim it's parodying HADN'T HAPPENED YET. It takes awhile to make a dozen episodes.

That makes sense. I suspect if there has been a parallel made it has come recently to ride a wave of current sentiment. Like others I tend to get more of a sense the Klingons are more ISIS in behaviour.

 

[Refuge]

Exactly. To pretend they don't represent the alt right that is propping up the likes of Trump is to be in denial.

Or a different opinion..

 

[Refuge]

No, it really isn't. Poisoned by toxic partisanship that is destroying democratic dialogue. More gun deaths than over 200 countries, including war zones. Profiling and banning people based on their religion, ethnicity and passport. Politically appointed judiciary. A president who lies on a daily basis, stokes the fires of nuclear war, relies on racists for support and tries to muzzle dissenting press....and that's just the surface. America is a disaster right now...and yes, on comparsion, now the least democratic of all western nations quite frankly. Not that I particularly want to derail this thread with a political debate.

Disagree.

 

[cooleddie74]

That's pushing it...

Agreed. We have a lot of problems and the current climate under Trump is toxic to free expression in some corners of our democracy, but the least-democratic country in the Western world? Yeah, that's B.S.

Check with Freedom House and the United Nations and then come back and tell me the United States is the democratic cesspool of the Western industrialized world.

 

[Prax]

No matter who's president, many Americans will always say and believe he is totally evil, ruining America, screwing people over, and on and on and on.

People said this for Presidents Bush, Clinton, W. Bush, Obama, and Trump, and it's always been this way, since the founding.

Does anyone remember when Trump was just a rich developer guy? When I was little, my friends and I would talk about/argue about who was the richest guy in the world, Trump would come up often. I remember when Bill Gates trumped Trump (in those conversations) but that's the past. Trump is now Satan, and will join the ranks of the other satans mentioned above.

We should really stop treating presidents like kings. Everyone answers to someone, and while the president does have power, his life is not his own, nor are his decisions. He answers to other people or organizations(and I don't mean "we the people")

The same goes for Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al. It's just the nature of the game. And us little people love the competition, the "us vs them." We do it in everything. Politics, religion, football(The kind that doesn't use a ball, and rarely uses a foot), even Star Trek. When I go to my daughter's volleyball games, and the other team is winning, It's often very difficult to prevent the following thoughts from coming into my mind: "Look at that smug coach, over there, and those smug players. They think they're sooooo great."

We love to hate our enemies. We love to disparage them. We're out for blood. I don't think this will change, not even in the 24th century.