Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"

[DigificWriter]

There's nothing objective about either side.

Star Trek Discovery is not a reboot, regardless of its visual look and whether or not you think it "feels" like Trek. Period. Therefore, you and everyone else referring to it as such are objectively wrong.

You can take an orange and claim it's really a banana all you want, but that doesn't make it a banana.

 

[BillJ]

Star Trek Discovery is not a reboot, regardless of its visual look and whether or not you think it "feels" like Trek. Period. Therefore, you and everyone else referring to it as such are objectively wrong.

What objectively makes my interpretation wrong? And please don't say "because producers said so!!1!"

 

[Mudd]

Newsflash: producers lie to the press.

 

[DigificWriter]

What objectively makes my interpretation wrong?

Years and years of writers defining and establishing the term "reboot" as being a complete narrative reset and establishment of a brand-new continuity.

No matter how frequently and persistently things like Star Trek '09, the seventh season of Once Upon a Time, The Force Awakens, Fuller House, X-Men First Class, or Star Trek Discovery (to cite a few examples) are referred to as reboots, it's never going to change the fact that each and every one of those things is built directly upon and adheres to, in one form or fashion, to the already-established narrative history and continuity of the franchise properties with which they're associated, therefore violating the contextual and actual definition of the term "reboot" as applied to fiction and as consistently established by years of precedent.

 

[BillJ]

No matter how frequently and persistently things like Star Trek '09, the seventh season of Once Upon a Time, The Force Awakens, Fuller House, X-Men First Class, or Star Trek Discovery (to cite a few examples) are referred to as reboots, it's never going to change the fact that each and every one of those things is built directly upon and adheres to, in one form or fashion, to the already-established narrative history and continuity of the franchise properties with which they're associated, therefore violating the contextual and actual definition of the term "reboot" as applied to fiction and as consistently established by years of precedent.

You do realize that reboots also build directly upon narrative history? They are just updated for the time in which they are created. Which is why Lex Luthor, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen and the Daily Planet are all still integral parts of the Superman mythos no matter what.

There is nothing about Star Trek: Discovery that feels like it inhabits the same universe as The Original Series.

You may FEEL differently (which is fair enough), but there's nothing objective about it.

 

[Ometiklan]

So what? I'm talking about events that occur long before that point. You're twisting my post to say something I didn't say.

I'm not saying there weren't any female captains in Starfleet; obviously there were, but we didn't see them until after the TOS TV series ended...

My own private opinion is that the first female starship captain was probably Number One, and then people would have had to know her name (since it would be awkward as hell to be known as "Captain Number One"; people would be wondering where the rest of the captains were!).

How about Erika Hernandez, captain of the NX-02 Columbia?
Or Captain Phillipa Georgiou of the Shenzhou?

 

[DigificWriter]

You do realize that reboots also build directly upon narrative history? They are just updated for the time in which they are created. Which is why Lex Luthor, Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen and the Daily Planet are all still integral parts of the Superman mythos no matter what.

That's not "building on narrative history"; it's including recognizable elements from previous iterations of something in order to give audiences something that is familiar.

 

[Ometiklan]

...4 days (16 light years) from Earth, in a hundred year old ship (They told us this in Broken bow).

End of Season one is going to see the creation of the Klingon Neutral Zone.

Qo'noS is four days away from Earth at Warp 5 so it would definitely be within range of the considerably faster Federation starships of the DSC era...

Broken Bow is straight up wrong. Calculations based off of numbers provided directly in Enterprise (see http://www.stdimension.org/int/Cartography/EnterpriseNX.htm) put Qo'nos (at 4 days travel at warp 4.5) only 0.998 lightyears from earth. Not possible. So we can just drop that as a possibility. (ENT and the Kelvin Timeline make no real attempts at proper distance of things. Everything they do is at the distance of 'plot'.) And Vulcan is the planet approximately 16 lightyears from earth (according to ENT).

Though I really like the idea of the Klingon neutral zone being established at the end of DSC season 1.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Canon can be illogical and counterintuitive yet still canon.

 

[Mudd]

Canon can be illogical and counterintuitive yet still canon.

Yep. "Canon" is not a synonym for "non-contradictory." Not at all.

 

[Mr Awe]

It's no secret. Watch the show without the "producers told me so" blinders on.

I am, but thanks. It is clearly the Prime timeline.

You seem to be awfully concerned about this show, down to timeline nitpicks, for someone who claims to not like and won't be watching it.

 

[BillJ]

You seem to be awfully concerned about this show, down timeline nitpicks, for someone who claims to not like and won't be watching it.

Hard to talk about anything else, that is how dull the first two episodes ended up being.

 

[Mr Awe]

Hard to talk about anything else, that is how dull the first two episodes ended up being.

So, when something is amazingly dull (in your opinion), that makes it irresistible for you to talk about?! Okaaaaaay.

I thought the first two episodes were OK. I didn't think they were dull, but there is definitely room for improvement. The second episode was an improvement. I see a lot of potential. Time will tell if they can capitalize on that potential. Almost all Trek premieres weren't that great though. Encounter at Farpoint was dull.

 

[BillJ]

So, when something is amazingly dull (in your opinion), that makes it irresistible for you to talk about?! Okaaaaaay.

We're all Trek fans, so obviously we're going to be talking about the first new Trek episodes in a decade-plus.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ That's silly.

 

[Mr Awe]

We're all Trek fans, so obviously we're going to be talking about the first new Trek episodes in a decade-plus.

Hopefully that discussion keeps in mind that we've seen only the equivalent of a 2 hour premiere. Those are typically not good. Still need to see how good the series proper is.

 

[BillJ]

Hopefully that discussion keeps in mind that we've seen only the equivalent of a 2 hour premiere.

Of course it does. I'm still paying my All-Access monthly bill.

But they got to cut down on the Klingon stuff. It is tedious.

 

[Mr Awe]

Of course it does. I'm still paying my All-Access monthly bill.

But they got to cut down on the Klingon stuff. It is tedious.

I do agree with that. The slow talking, subtitled Klingon stuff just didn't work as well as it should. Too long. Not really an attention grabber for getting people into the show. The flashbacks for T'Kumva were not needed. It didn't help that their methods (lighting the torch, etc) don't stand up to logical scrutiny.

 

[Rahul]

It's amazing how people persist in missing the point.

TMP took place AFTER the TOS series. Not before. So I don't have a problem with the change in uniforms, more advanced ship, etc. And the characters are played by the same people and display the same basic traits, speech patterns, motivations, abilities, etc.

But having tech in a TOS prequel that is more advanced than what can be done in TOS (never mind what it looks like for the moment) is bad storytelling. It's like you're saying that historical TV series (ie. Rome or The Tudors) should have all the characters running around with smart phones just because modern audiences are used to smart phones and can't imagine how anyone could ever manage to live without them.

Newsflash: In TOS the Enterprise travelled to the outer barrier of the galaxy. Twice. And in STV they travelled to the center of the galaxy. Within days.

Yet, 100 years later, the Enterprise-D isn't capable of reaching the Delta-quadrant, and the Voyager would need 78 years to traverse the galaxy.

HOW HAS TECH SO REGRESSED??? HOW CAN TOS BE MORE ADVANCED THAN TNG?? THAT CAN'T BE THE SAME UNIVERSE!!! TNG WAS A REBOOT!!!!11111oneoneoneeleven!

It's simply that: canon inconsistencies. And the tech of DIS may LOOK more advanced than TOS, but it simply isn't. It's actually in the perfect sweetspot between ENT and TOS.

ENT is the same continuity as is TOS as is DS9 as is DIS. Despite there being major differences in style, tone and depiction of technology in all of these. Either all of them are canon, or none is. And the official position is: ALL of them are. Except the JJverse stuff.

 

[Gonzo]

We're all Trek fans, so obviously we're going to be talking about the first new Trek episodes in a decade-plus.

I was ok with the show as I had no preconceived expectations beyond the ships styles, uniforms and that Klingons would be in it.

It did feel like it was thought up and produced by some faceless CBS execs who have been told about Star Trek but never actually watched it for themselves.

It is also a sign of the times with so many hard hitting, well written scifi/fantasy shows out there now that the powers that be at CBS may have overcooked the goose, heavy handed CBS exec interference would explain all the problems that occurred during production.

Its possible that once the 3rd episode is out those who were disappointed can just pretend the first two episodes never happened and move forward.

We could have had all of the important events of the first two episodes shown in flashback while Burnham is on the Discovery and it would have saved us from having to sit through the Klingon monologue, I am sure Chris Obi et all did their best but it just didn't work for me.