Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"

[Jax]

The Vulcan's are part of the Federation (they help create it) so surley how they handled First Contact with the Klingon should be taught to all Starfleet Cadets and not taught over a phone call during a crisis

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And that is precisely the mistake she makes. She makes what amounts to a racist assumption about the Klingons as a result of her early experience with them. That's the whole point of the story. She thinks Georgiou and the Admiral are being naïve and stupid, and thinks she has to act to save her Captain and crew.

Basically without that, you have no story

It's just that this is the sort of hot-headedness one would expect in a cadet, and not in a seasoned officer ready for her own command, a point that another poster made earlier.

 

[cultcross]

The Vulcan's are part of the Federation (they help create it) so surley how they handled First Contact with the Klingon should be taught to all Starfleet Cadets and not taught over a phone call during a crisis

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AsYouKnow

 

[cultcross]

It's just that this is the sort of hot-headedness one would expect in a cadet, and not in a seasoned officer ready for her own command, a point that another poster made earlier.

I'm not sure I agree, really. I think this is a perfectly realistic post traumatic or prejudice based emotional response that I see in seasoned professionals in real life from time to time. It isn't symptomatic of general hot headedness, but of a specific personal trigger for fear and a genuine belief, however emotionally driven, that you are right and only you can save the situation. It reminds me strongly of Picard's reaction to the Borg in First Contact. We've also seen characters before who have disobeyed orders to save the ship and usually in that Trek trope, it works out alright in the end. Here, not so much. Which I like, actually.

 

[Longinus]

The whole flashback of Georgiou taking her on struck me as odd, actually. It was stated that Michael had just left the Vulcan Science Academy, and implied pretty clearly that she has not spent any time at Starfleet Academy along the way. Since when does someone with that background get to step into a command-line position on a Federation startship?

Yeah, I found that weird too. I really don't understand her career path.

 

[cultcross]

Well it's never been confirmed that all officers go to the academy. There may be entry paths via the Vulcan science academy or elsewhere.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Which I like, actually.

I agree. I have nothing against her being punished. I just felt her punishment was unnecessarily prejudicial and without due process.

 

[cultcross]

I agree. I have nothing against her being punished. I just felt her punishment was unnecessarily prejudicial and without due process.

She pled guilty and was sentenced, beyond that i don't think we needed to see the legal system of the Federation in great detail. The important bits were there. I think we can safely say the trial part of the episode was somewhat stylised.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

We've also seen characters before who have disobeyed orders to save the ship and usually in that Trek trope, it works out alright in the end. Here, not so much. Which I like, actually.

Well, staying out of well trodden paths is good, but we still have the righteous hero bucking the chain of command above her trope and the ineffectual admiral trope. It's just that the hero is lower down the command hierarchy than we're used to, and she's going to be a Tom Paris-type (eventually redeemed), I guess.

If we can actually get to the point when the protagonist realizes she was wrong, then that will be different, well not literally different (see e.g. TMP) but unusual at least; for me that would be refreshing. I mean, they didn't fire when she wanted, and she and other crewmates do live to fight another day anyway (and serve together on a snazzy new starship).

 

[cultcross]

still have the righteous hero bucking the chain of command above her trope

Depends if you consider what she did righteous. We're not discussing it much yet but in the fullness of time I think fans will be quite divided over whether her plan was good or not, and whether she was right to try to enact it. I actually find her actions and their motivation a much more compelling 'political divide' to quote the showrunners, than the one between the Federation and the Klingons.

the ineffectual admiral trope

Some things will never change, although he was less dumb than he could have been. He at least saw Burnham's prejudice for what it was. Usually it's the Admiral who has the dubious morals.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Depends if you consider what she did righteous. We're not discussing it much yet but in the fullness of time I think fans will be quite divided over whether her plan was good or not, and whether she was right to try to enact it. I actually find her actions and their motivation a much more compelling 'political divide' to quote the showrunners, than the one between the Federation and the Klingons.

Yes, good point. I didn't mean righteous in the sense that she necessarily is righteous, but righteous in the sense that she believes she is. Perhaps I should have phrased that a different way.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The whole flashback of Georgiou taking her on struck me as odd, actually. It was stated that Michael had just left the Vulcan Science Academy, and implied pretty clearly that she has not spent any time at Starfleet Academy along the way. Since when does someone with that background get to step into a command-line position on a Federation startship?

Brokenbow.

T'Pol out ranked Trip, and took command of Enterprise after Archer was incapacitated.

 

[Mel Tenorio]

Any recognizable alien races on the shenzou other than humans?

 

[Matthew Raymond]

It isn't symptomatic of general hot headedness, but of a specific personal trigger for fear and a genuine belief, however emotionally driven, that you are right and only you can save the situation. It reminds me strongly of Picard's reaction to the Borg in First Contact.

To be fair, some people felt that Picard's behavior in First Contact was out of character.

Deep-seated fear and prejudice are things that should be narrative established beforehand, and I feel that it was established more through flashback and exposition than the actual actions of the main character in this first episode. If Burnham had attacked the Torchbearer Klingon first, I think the narrative would have made more sense, because we would have already seen her use her own agency to demonstrate her bias against the Klingons, and the Klingons would have a legitimate beef with her (and with the Federation by way of her actions).

 

[Ithekro]

Well it's never been confirmed that all officers go to the academy. There may be entry paths via the Vulcan science academy or elsewhere.

Perhaps this is a reason that Sarek was disappointed in Spock for going to the human Starfleet Academy rather than the Vulcan Science Academy. Spock could probably have landed his posting on USS Enterprise the same way Michael does, but Spock thought differently.

Since the episode takes place during 2256, and Michael has being onboard for seven years, that would put her coming to Starfleet as 2249. Spock joined Starfleet the following year in 2250. Spock had been assigned to USS Enterprise by 2254, relatively fresh out of the academy. Michael is, we assume, older than Spock, since Spock should be about 26 in the present day while Michael is, we assume, closer to her actor's present age of 32. (or course Leonard Nimoy was 33 when The Cage was produced)

 

[AndyUK]

Great to see a Star Trek series as it airs for the first time.

Anyway, I thought it was a solid start. Definitely got better as it went on as the dialogue was stilted exposition at first like some have mentioned and the second episode added to that but it was always intriguing. The relationship between Burnham and Yeoh's Georgieu was interesting.

It is a bit of a weird situation though because lets be fair, you can only judge so much when half the main cast and the ship aren't in the first two episodes.

 

[cultcross]

Deep-seated fear and prejudice are things that should be narrative established beforehand, and I feel that it was established more through flashback and exposition than the actual actions of the main character in this first episode

Well they were established during the bit we're talking about, really. It's the first half of the first episode, there's not a lot of time to have loads of backstory. They set up what happened to her in the past and you infer the effect of that on her now, contrasting her behaviour after meeting the Klingon to her behaviour before. The difference is very remarkable, and I think they sold it pretty well. She's gone through this gradual integration into the crew, built up a relationship with the Captain, but she hasn't dealt properly with the effects of what happened to her, until she is confronted by (and nearly killed by) a Klingon again. This triggers a crisis for her which leads to her making what she thinks is the only available decision.

 

[Noname Given]

I gave it a '7', but "The Vulcan Hello" is built entirely on incorrect fan wank. I want to be generous because it is the first episode, and I want to like it.

The Superfans 100 year Klingon absence is directly contradicted by Spock in The Undiscovered Country "seventy years of unremitting hostilities". Then there's the Battle of Donatu V from "The Trouble with Tribbles" which is twenty-five years before the episode. Even the attack that orphans Burnham takes place during that period. There's an awful lot of contact for the Klingons to have been in hiding for a century.

The acting was stilted, the characters outside of Burnham and Saru are dull in the mode of TNG, the effects are great, the sets overly dark for no particular reason. Then there's the Prime Directive. Lets have a starship come down out of orbit to save us in front of the natives and Burnham talking about living with the natives if they are stuck. Whoops.

I'd have rather had people who weren't "Superfans" running the show. At least that way they wouldn't be feeding us bullshit about this show somehow lining up with TOS.

I think the problem is fans who take every line too literally . Hell, if you watch the episode, the Klingons themselves mention the Battle at Donatu V themselves. Also, the attack the killed Burnham's parents WAS a Klingon attack.

They said, 'virtually' no contact - meaning no direct diplomatic contact. It's clear the Feds and Klingons have had battles during those 100 years; but no other real meaningful contact - The Federation knows nothing of Klingon culture except that there are 24 House that fight among themselves. IDK why the writers want to frame it that way, except to try and enhance the 'mysterious nature' of the Klingons (in this era) for new fans.

Also, look at TNG and the Ferengi:

In TNG - "Encounter At Farpoint":

ZORN: Captain, the Ferengi would be very interested in a base like this.
PICARD: Fine. I hope they find you as tasty as they did their past associates.

Yet in the later episode:
TNG - "The Last Outpost":

Captain's log, stardate 41386.4. We are in pursuit of a starship of Ferengi design. Our mission is to intercept and recover a T9 energy converter which the Ferengi stole from an unmanned monitor post on Gamma Tauri Four. A theft which automatic scanners recorded, providing us with the long awaited opportunity to make close contact with a Ferengi vessel. If we succeed in this chase, it will be Starfleet's first look at a life form which, discounting rumour, we know almost nothing about.

^^^
So, did Picard know about the Ferengi in EAF or not?

Then there's TNG and the Romulans:
TNG - "Angel One":

LAFORGE [OC]: One third of the crew is down, and the latest information from the Neutral Zone outpost is that more Romulan vessels are converging on that area.

Yet LATER in the Season we have TNG - "The Neutral Zone"

RIKER: There's been no direct contact with the Romulans since the Tomed Incident.
PICARD: The question are, why now? What's their objective? For fifty years there's barely a whisper out of them, and now for no apparent reason they seem to be back with a roar.
RIKER: Everything we know about them is based on rumour or conjecture.
.
.
DATA: Since we have no contact with the Romulans for fifty three years, seven months, eighteen days, we must consider that the information we do have, is out of date.

^^^
So, yeah, I guess the situation in TNG - "Angel One" a few weeks prior was a dream?

And later in the series:

TNG - "Redemption II"

GUINAN: How much do you know about what happened to the last ship called Enterprise?
PICARD: Enterprise C? She was lost at the battle of Narendra Three, defending a Klingon outpost from the Romulans.
GUINAN: And the survivors?
PICARD: There were stories of prisoners taken back to Romulus, but these were only rumours.
GUINAN: No. There were survivors. And Tasha Yar was one of them.
PICARD: Guinan, that was twenty three years ago. Tasha Yar was only a child.

Now, my point? Nothing above is all that inconsistent depending on how you take it. The last encounter with the Romulans where there was an actual Diplomatic exchange as a result could indeed be the Tomed Incibdent 53 years earlier. The others were brief skirmishes that occured but no direct contact with the Romulan government was made in any of those other incidents,

Same situation here between the Feds and Klingons in "ST: D - "The Vulcan Hello" - for 100 years the Feds have had little direct contact with the Klingon government. There have been skirmishes and incidents - including Klingon raids into Federation space, but no Klingon has actually been seen or spoken to face to face.

 

[Riverside2233]

Really got to re-watch it. I felt like I was so busy looking at all of the details and getting a feel for the characters that I barely payed attention to the plot. Lol. It had me into it, though.

 

[Noname Given]

Why would anyone intentionally do that? Just make one pilot, ffs. There's no USS Discovery in the first two episodes of a show called Star Trek: Discovery!

You assume 'Discovery' in the title refers to the ship. We don't really know if that's the case.

This could have all been avoided by NOT making another prequel. This show is never going to please everyone.

Please name one Star Trek incarnation in the 50+ year history of the franchise that has...I'll wait.