I'm really not.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x01 - "The Vulcan Hello"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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I'm really not.
It is their fault because they did it as a marketing tactic to make money
I loved the episode but even I can see you’re being unreasonable, not everyone shares your enthusiasm, I suggest you take head of the moderators advice to you
It's weird that CBS would choose to market Star Trek: Discovery with an episode that doesn't actually take place on or even mention the Discovery. Even Lost, the king of serialized-to-death shows, established they were actually lost in the first episode.
But I will say this for it: it was a lot less cheesy than the previous Trek pilots. No silly energy grids, no weird Avery Brooks line readings, no banjo playing aliens, and zero Klingons running through fields.
But I will say this for it: it was a lot less cheesy than the previous Trek pilots. No silly energy grids, no weird Avery Brooks line readings, no banjo playing aliens, and zero Klingons running through fields.
Unnecessary and unsolicited fan explanation time!:
Shenzhou's an old ship. It still has a Kelvin-style viewscreen that was already phased out on the Constitution-styles because of issues.
Eh, Starfleet uniform policy is schizophrenic and contradictory in previously established canon. Whoever came up with this blue style would have their ideas scuttled in favor of the Enterprise-style from 2254 in short order. Or maybe they have different uniforms between fleets. Or maybe The Cage/WNMHGB are all wearing the DS9 jumpsuits of their day.
The Constitution class is more advanced and much larger. They have large science labs and phaser armories and whatnot that facilitate all their information to a few select officers on the bridge. The Shenzhou and Discovery I imagine, do not, and instead rely on more people on the bridge (as did Kelvin) to disseminate that information.
Two different styles of ship operation from a Federation made of many cultures.
Holograms existed in this limited fashion even in the 22nd century. We've seen it also in the Star Trek films and on DS9, always phased out eventually because of its awkwardness. It's no wonder why they phased it out in the middle of the 23rd century.
Makeup is makeup. I do not see a problem with bumpy Klingons existing at this point of time (even Enterprise acknowledged that they'd still be around). I'd like to see some smoothies, but c'est la vie.
Maybe Klingons always had these weird-looking nostrils, and technology just didn't allow us to see it before.
They have canon (and non-canon) Star Trek writers on staff. This is what they came up with.
Enterprise had cloaking devices and "unnamed aliens" (Borg, Ferengi) show up and all sorts of goofiness. Great show, btw, but it was longly, and rightly, derided as a less-than-accurate prequel to TOS. Discovery is continuing that trend, but I'm not watching Star Trek Continues here. I'm watching a professionally made, supposedly mass-appeal, science fiction show within the Star Trek franchise.
Shenzhou's an old ship. It still has a Kelvin-style viewscreen that was already phased out on the Constitution-styles because of issues.
Eh, Starfleet uniform policy is schizophrenic and contradictory in previously established canon. Whoever came up with this blue style would have their ideas scuttled in favor of the Enterprise-style from 2254 in short order. Or maybe they have different uniforms between fleets. Or maybe The Cage/WNMHGB are all wearing the DS9 jumpsuits of their day.
The Constitution class is more advanced and much larger. They have large science labs and phaser armories and whatnot that facilitate all their information to a few select officers on the bridge. The Shenzhou and Discovery I imagine, do not, and instead rely on more people on the bridge (as did Kelvin) to disseminate that information.
Two different styles of ship operation from a Federation made of many cultures.
Holograms existed in this limited fashion even in the 22nd century. We've seen it also in the Star Trek films and on DS9, always phased out eventually because of its awkwardness. It's no wonder why they phased it out in the middle of the 23rd century.
Makeup is makeup. I do not see a problem with bumpy Klingons existing at this point of time (even Enterprise acknowledged that they'd still be around). I'd like to see some smoothies, but c'est la vie.
Maybe Klingons always had these weird-looking nostrils, and technology just didn't allow us to see it before.
They have canon (and non-canon) Star Trek writers on staff. This is what they came up with.
Enterprise had cloaking devices and "unnamed aliens" (Borg, Ferengi) show up and all sorts of goofiness. Great show, btw, but it was longly, and rightly, derided as a less-than-accurate prequel to TOS. Discovery is continuing that trend, but I'm not watching Star Trek Continues here. I'm watching a professionally made, supposedly mass-appeal, science fiction show within the Star Trek franchise.
The language is indeed Okrand's Klingon. I recognised various words here and there. The problem is that the delivery is so stilted. My hope was that the atrocious redesign would be made less by them acting and feeling like Klingons. But every time they are on screen it is painful because of the poor delivery of the Klingonese, something previous actors have not had an issue with. After trying to sell this as an look at the Klingons we have never seen, it felt like the complete opposite. It felt like the makers of the show had never seen any of Klingons from Worf onwards. I think if they had mostly spoken in ENglish, so that the delivery was less stilted, and had hair and beards it would have been easier to imagine these are the same Klingons we are used to.
Everything else I either liked or found generally okay and bearable. But I think these Klingons are going to really break the show for me going forward. I think they are a major mistake.
Did I watch the same show as some of the others on here? I’m no fan of most of JJ Trek. But this was good. Only Where No Man Has Gone Before felt like a more solid pilot. The pilots for TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterpeise don’t even come close to this level of polish. And I’m not talking about the eye candy. Still not big on this style. The actors know their characters. There was none of awkwardness of the other pilots. That and the story are what’s important. Which universe it is set in, Differences in what Klingons look like, I don’t care. I hope they don’t make the mistake Enterprise did by coming up with a reason.
A pretty solid start. I don’t like having to pay to see it. But at least we have a new show.
A pretty solid start. I don’t like having to pay to see it. But at least we have a new show.
No real imagination, either.
Windex went out of business in 2089?
It does feature the metaphorical (literal?) "Discovery" of the Klingon sarcophagus ship that leads to this flare-up in the Klingon war.
I didn't much like it, but it's half a story. While they admit they will "appear" to violate canon, they "promise" if you watch it long enough, you will see their justifications for how they avoid the problems or something like that. Yeah. Right.
How old is Spock in this? He's a kid. So another decade to grow up on Vulcan. Another stint in starfleet Academy. Then 11 years under Pike. Then TOS. He'd older than Kirk, so this must be about 25 years before Kirk takes command of the Big E, 15 maybe before Pike?
Their tech (on both sides) seems too advanced. I'm not saying they should use 60's props, but the cramped, submarine-like fighting for space of TOS now is open, spacious, ready-room complete with holographic projectors. It's not just the look, but they seem a few steps ahead of TOS in abilities and not a step or two behind like they should.
Ah, the problems of writing Trek in this time period will be many. I think it was a mistake.
I don't mind the Klingons (though they talk like Klingonese is not their first language). They could be a subspecies that will (through this unfavorable action) lose honor and become subordinate to the other great houses, and that's why they are always behind the scenes and never seen by TOS - genetic manipulation notwithstanding.
Mutiny? Really?
4 out of 10.
And the preview? Wow, so many starships, so quickly, like Abram's infinite speed and infinite resources kind of universe instead of Roddenberry's we've only one starship in that sector, 12 in the fleet like her, limited resources everywhere you turn universe.
But not having actually seen it or their explanation of it, maybe they explain it in an acceptable way that makes sense to me.
This is not an auspicious start. But then TNG had much worse acting to begin with and that got better. I hope Discoveries stories improve and fall more in line with TOS canon. Crap, you want to write for that time period in that universe, then write for that time period and not well beyond. Seriously, 25 years later and how often does Kirk talk to anyone holographically? Even if they could do it, is that the best use of resources?
Anyway, it could get a lot better, but it couldn't get too much worse and still expect to hold an audience. IMO. YMMV.
How old is Spock in this? He's a kid. So another decade to grow up on Vulcan. Another stint in starfleet Academy. Then 11 years under Pike. Then TOS. He'd older than Kirk, so this must be about 25 years before Kirk takes command of the Big E, 15 maybe before Pike?
Their tech (on both sides) seems too advanced. I'm not saying they should use 60's props, but the cramped, submarine-like fighting for space of TOS now is open, spacious, ready-room complete with holographic projectors. It's not just the look, but they seem a few steps ahead of TOS in abilities and not a step or two behind like they should.
Ah, the problems of writing Trek in this time period will be many. I think it was a mistake.
I don't mind the Klingons (though they talk like Klingonese is not their first language). They could be a subspecies that will (through this unfavorable action) lose honor and become subordinate to the other great houses, and that's why they are always behind the scenes and never seen by TOS - genetic manipulation notwithstanding.
Mutiny? Really?
4 out of 10.
And the preview? Wow, so many starships, so quickly, like Abram's infinite speed and infinite resources kind of universe instead of Roddenberry's we've only one starship in that sector, 12 in the fleet like her, limited resources everywhere you turn universe.
But not having actually seen it or their explanation of it, maybe they explain it in an acceptable way that makes sense to me.
This is not an auspicious start. But then TNG had much worse acting to begin with and that got better. I hope Discoveries stories improve and fall more in line with TOS canon. Crap, you want to write for that time period in that universe, then write for that time period and not well beyond. Seriously, 25 years later and how often does Kirk talk to anyone holographically? Even if they could do it, is that the best use of resources?
Anyway, it could get a lot better, but it couldn't get too much worse and still expect to hold an audience. IMO. YMMV.
Airing The Vulcan Hello on CBS itself was a courtesy; it wasn't a "marketing tactic".
I find it extremely weird that people will pay through the nose for cable and/or streaming services like Netflix or Hulu, but balk at shelling out $6 for Star Trek TV.
I've been reading a lot of the behind the scenes retrospective stuff that came out for the anniversary over past couple years, and one of the things that struck me that I'd forgotten was that when TOS and TNG were on the air, how big a deal was that they'd consulted with scientific advisors and engineering think tanks to come up with ideas for the technology and society of the future. At times they seemed to sell Trek as prophecy rather than entertainment. That started being less important in the '90s, and the fans seemed to pick up on that, being more interested in a Star Trek that depicted past-Star Trek's future plausibly rather than the actual future of our present.
What I'm getting at is that the technology isn't too big a deal for me as far as immersion in the world. The style, sure (I've been banging a drum on sound effects and typography, of all things), but stuff like holograms and visible versus invisible forcefields? Eh, a miniature TV in a goose-neck lamp housing isn't impressive when the audience wears one on their wrist. Besides, Trek itself has been fairly inconsistent with tech progression; the holodeck was brand new in "Farpoint," but Janeway had done children's programs when she was younger. Early TNG was full of holographic displays which "fell out of fashion." And, not to be too single-minded, in the '80s the holodeck was able to adapt novels into interactive programs automatically, but in Voyager programs had to be written as the audience and writers became more familiar with computers and that they weren't magic.
The issue being that enemies decide to just shoot you through your window (not protected by polarized hull plating or whatever). The Federation apparently spent 100 years without the Romulans *or* Klingons to bother them (except for occassional bits and pieces) and grew complacent enough to have vulnerabilities like the viewscreen window that the USS Kelvin and now Shenzhou had.
No it was to bring in new users for CBSAA
I didn't like the holograms. I thought it was an unnecessary stylistic choice. I suppose they probably did it because face to face screen viewing isn't futuristic anymore. But there is still a thematic tension disconnect that it creates--something I've always really liked about Star Trek.
I mean, imagine Khan's "...I just wanted you to know first who was who had beaten you." emanating from a hologram standing between Bill and Kristy.
I mean, imagine Khan's "...I just wanted you to know first who was who had beaten you." emanating from a hologram standing between Bill and Kristy.
It's 2256. Two years after Pike. Spock's a big boy now.
A
Amaris
Guest
Call CBS, then. Only "The Vulcan Hello" was broadcast free. People who don't have CBS All Access got half of a premiere episode. Plus, people can dislike something without having a grudge against it.
Anyway, I guess I can toss out a few pros and cons (just my opinion, as always):
PART ONE: "The Vulcan Hello"
PROS:
* I already love the character of Michael Burnham. She's intelligent, ambitious, and she wants to experience and explore. I am on board with that.
* The visuals? Sumptuous. There is so much fine detail in everything, and I love that. The lighting, effects, and atmosphere are great.
CONS:
* Only getting half of a premiere if you don't have CBS All Access. Hell, I have it and right now I can't watch the second part due to technical issues.
* The Klingon segments are slow, and plodding. They take many minutes to do what could be explained in seconds. The Klingons themselves seem to speak far slowly than what I'm used to seeing with Klingons. It's like they've adopted the old center ring trope, where wrestlers speak their lines slowly and loudly as to let everyone catch on who sits way in the back. It's unnecessary. There are subtitles, and there are only a few words in the subtitles being shown at any given moment.
* Again, with the Klingons: What was with the decloaking and sitting? Yeah, they were going to light the torch to signal... other ships? I'm not sure, really. I guess the signal is a subspace one, which still somehow requires visible light because Kahless? I'm not sure I follow on that one.
* That escalated quickly, but not in a good way: So Michael neck pinches her commanding officer, and then lies to the 2nd officer, essentially engaging in a mutiny. Friends don't do that to each other, and from the first 3/4 of the episode, I thought the Captain and First Officer were longtime friends who respected one another.
* I still can't access episode 2, and I've been typing for several minutes. I've restarted the app, and everything. This is getting tedious. I only have another day or so of access. If I can't get it working by then, I'm just going to forget it. There's not enough in the first half of the premiere to make me sub.
All in all, visuals aside, I was underwhelmed with the first half of the pilot.
After half an hour of getting ahold of CBS All Access, they managed to fix the issue on their end, and I was ready to go.
RUMINATIONS:
I wanted this to be great. I hoped. I started getting sinking feelings, but I held off on them, because I wanted to see this show do so well. I don't care about canon, I don't care about minutiae that didn't matter 50 years ago, either. What I care about is great story, and great characters. Some of the characters have potential, clearly, as I am a fan of Burnham, and yeah, Saru's pretty cool, too.
Georgiou was good, but of course I knew she was going to die, so I didn't get too attached.
As some have said, I think CBS made a HUGE mistake in not showing all of the premiere two-parter, because if I had gone solely off the first half, I'd have given this pilot a 3. As it stands, I'm giving it a 5, because it improved in the second half, but it still felt off.
The three, what I assume to be, Judges or Admirals sitting in the chamber judging Burnham? No lights, darkness, dark faces, eyes unseen. Is Starfleet good? Bad? What do they represent? A dying empire? How am I supposed to know if I'm new to this series? Don't tell me, show me, and I wasn't shown much of anything positive.
If there is good to come, it's well past the people who were hoping whether or not the pilot would get them to purchase the All Access service. In my opinion, and my choice of 5 out of 10 rating, If I were them, I'd hold off and wait until the end of the season, and then binge it all at once. It's not worth $6 a month if that's all you want to watch on All Access.
Edited to make it less episode 2 spoiltastic.
Sorry @T'Bonz.
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The metal hull really didn't seem to stand up against particle-beams and antimatter explosions much better than the windows did. Hell, the window seemed to be the only part of the Shenzhou bridge that wasn't holed.
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