Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion

[Paul Weaver]

For all the fuss of nuSulu being gay, it was basically a "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" scene. Why were people so upset?

They weren't

The homage to Spock and the rest of the Original Series crew was nice.

Of course, yet you still gave it an F.

So the magic transporter nuScotty invented in the last movie didn't work out? And nuKhan's magic blood hasn't cured death?

Yes, the first time a new technology has ever been introduced in trek and then forgotten by the next episode

How many years has Captain Frat Boy been in command of the ship?

Beyond was set 2263.2, 09 was 2258.42, so about 5 years.

Shouldn't nuSpock and nuUhura have had to deal with his pon farr by now?

If they did they'll have dealt with it by having sex as normal (or maybe they went to Vulcan and Spock had a fight like in Amok Time), but it probably hasn't cropped up - TOS Spock's first Pon Farr was 2267, Beyond was in 2263.

And WTF is this promotion to the admiralty about? Just mimicking the TOS movie series? There's no way nuKirk could have earned that rank at so young an age.

Promotion after 5 years of service as captain, including saving the federation on multiple occasions? Doesn't seem excessive. Yes, Kirk becoming captain in the first film so quickly was a stretch, but TOS Kirk went from becoming Captain in 2265 to Admiral in 2270, so 5 years as captain, especially given that in that time he saved Earth from Nero, Federation from Marcus, and Yorktown (and the federation) from Krall, seems reasonable. TOS Kirk's earth saving exploits didn't really start until after he became Admiral.

Oh, well. Whether he's Captain Frat Boy or Admiral Frat Boy, he's still nuKirk the Frat Boy who was given a starship to play with.

I don't see anything in Beyond that makes him unfit to be a starship captain.

 

[Timewalker]

They weren't

Some were.

Of course, yet you still gave it an F.

So what? All the regulars here and in a couple of other areas of the forum know I despise this movie series. It's no secret.

Yes, the first time a new technology has ever been introduced in trek and then forgotten by the next episode

Your sarcasm is noted. However, the TV show had an excuse of multiple writers working in a hurry on dozens of scripts. This reboot series has a total of THREE movies to keep track of. Call me unimpressed by the lack of continuity.

Beyond was set 2263.2, 09 was 2258.42, so about 5 years.

And nuUhura is still whining about her relationship with nuSpock.

If they did they'll have dealt with it by having sex as normal (or maybe they went to Vulcan and Spock had a fight like in Amok Time), but it probably hasn't cropped up - TOS Spock's first Pon Farr was 2267, Beyond was in 2263.

I don't recall mention of that.

Promotion after 5 years of service as captain, including saving the federation on multiple occasions? Doesn't seem excessive. Yes, Kirk becoming captain in the first film so quickly was a stretch, but TOS Kirk went from becoming Captain in 2265 to Admiral in 2270, so 5 years as captain, especially given that in that time he saved Earth from Nero, Federation from Marcus, and Yorktown (and the federation) from Krall, seems reasonable. TOS Kirk's earth saving exploits didn't really start until after he became Admiral.

Apparently you slept through the episodes in which TOS Kirk saved not only Earth, but the Federation itself.

I don't see anything in Beyond that makes him unfit to be a starship captain.

Of course not.

Well, at least I've been spared the "but it made $$$$$$$! That means it HAS to be good!" argument.

I don't care if other people liked it. I don't care how much money it made or didn't make. I don't care what the critics say or what ratings it gets on various websites. All I care about is whether or not I am entertained, whether or not I find it a believable, acceptable part of real Star Trek.

Sorry, but I'm not, and I don't. I watched this one in hopes that it would be a significant improvement on the other two. No such luck, therefore it got an F.

As always, you are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to expect me to share it.

 

[Smellmet]

I finally saw this a few days ago, on Netflix.

Grade: F (as usual, since it's still a dumb series of movies)

I would say it was mainly was going for a fun vibe IMO. Only the Sabotage bit jarred for me.

For all the fuss of nuSulu being gay, it was basically a "blink-and-you'll-miss-it" scene. Why were people so upset?

Welcome to the internet.

The homage to Spock and the rest of the Original Series crew was nice.

Surely this earns it an E minus?

So the magic transporter nuScotty invented in the last movie didn't work out? And nuKhan's magic blood hasn't cured death?

That was designed to beam a long distance away. How would that have helped them in Beyond? Khan's blood didn't 'cure death' rather than resuscitate a 'barely dead' Kirk's irradiated cells. And Lin also said that he was abandoning those concepts for this movie, and rightly so for me.

How many years has Captain Frat Boy been in command of the ship? And WTF is this promotion to the admiralty about? Just mimicking the TOS movie series? There's no way nuKirk could have earned that rank at so young an age.

He's been commander of the Enterprise for five years and has saved the day, big time, several times. Works for me.

Shouldn't nuSpock and nuUhura have had to deal with his pon farr by now?

As we don't know how long they had been together at the start of ST09 and the events of beyond are five years later, potentially this is still two years away. Or happened off camera in the 966 days of the five year mission they had completed by the time of the beginning of Beyond. Doesn't need any explanation.

Oh, well. Whether he's Captain Frat Boy or Admiral Frat Boy, he's still nuKirk the Frat Boy who was given a starship to play with.

Oh pur-leaase. the film goes to great lengths to establish that Kirk is no longer like that and has clearly matured. There was no evidence of 'Frat Boy' Kirk in this movie whatsoever.

 

[fireproof78]

I thought that Kirk had much more of an air of maturity to him, with the occassional bouts of energy.

Kind of like Prime Kirk. Weird.

 

[queerTrekker]

in regards to nuSulu part of the fracas was that Takei didn't approve of both who was gay in the film (he'd been advocating for a new original prominent/main character within the franchise for years, including thee films), general bigots, traditionalists, and those, as you've also noticed, who said that if you were going to have a gay character, don't make it a blink-and-you'll-miss-it bro hug (this was also a later criticism of Takei's) some postulate that if the fact that Sulu being gay hadn't been "leaked" before the movie came out, viewers wouldn't have even realized it.

I liked the homage myself.

Yeah, those plot holes have swallowed a few planets by now.

The one thing I will give to the film is that I enjoyed the scenes between Spock and McCoy, that was some great character interaction.

 

[Kemaiku]

thanks. pity there wasn't. not usually one for novelizations but a book for this one would have been admittedly interesting.

I'd have picked one up too, but they haven't really bothered with them.

 

[Paul Weaver]

And nuUhura is still whining about her relationship with nuSpock.

Whining? They broke up, then got back together. Not unknown for 30 year-olds.

I don't recall mention of that.

From Memory Alpha's page on Amok Time:
"Suffering through his first infliction of pon farr...."

Amok time was set in 2267, 4 years after Beyond. Now we don't know the circumstances that Pon Farr begins, perhaps it started earlier in the Kelvinverse. Perhaps later. Perhaps it no longer happens as Vulcan has been destroyed.

Apparently you slept through the episodes in which TOS Kirk saved not only Earth, but the Federation itself.

I find it difficult to watch TOS, watched "Shore Leave" the other night, cringeworthy how the female lieutenants were burying themselves in the men's chests.

However of the 3 episodes Earth featured in TOS, all were time travel episodes. I don't recall Kirk saving earth in any other those - at least from a non-kirk originated issue.

I suppose Doomsday Machine, where some colonies were under threat, may count, and maybe Lazerous, but the less said about that episode the better.

Sorry, but I'm not, and I don't. I watched this one in hopes that it would be a significant improvement on the other two. No such luck, therefore it got an F.

So you found it no better, and no worse, than Into Darkness (which I assume you also gave an F?)

 

[Timewalker]

Whining? They broke up, then got back together. Not unknown for 30 year-olds.



From Memory Alpha's page on Amok Time:
"Suffering through his first infliction of pon farr...."

Amok time was set in 2267, 4 years after Beyond. Now we don't know the circumstances that Pon Farr begins, perhaps it started earlier in the Kelvinverse. Perhaps later. Perhaps it no longer happens as Vulcan has been destroyed.

Why wouldn't it happen? Was the entire species, other than nuSpock, rendered extinct?

I find it difficult to watch TOS, watched "Shore Leave" the other night, cringeworthy how the female lieutenants were burying themselves in the men's chests.

However of the 3 episodes Earth featured in TOS, all were time travel episodes. I don't recall Kirk saving earth in any other those - at least from a non-kirk originated issue.

I suppose Doomsday Machine, where some colonies were under threat, may count, and maybe Lazerous, but the less said about that episode the better.

So 1960s TV isn't your cup of tea. Earth doesn't have to be directly featured to be saved from some alien menace.

So you found it no better, and no worse, than Into Darkness (which I assume you also gave an F?)

You assume correctly (since a grade lower than F wasn't offered in the poll).

 

[Hela]

So 1960s TV isn't your cup of tea. Earth doesn't have to be directly featured to be saved from some alien menace.
.

A direct threat was rather common in 1960's scifi tv. And as examples like 'To Serve Man' and 'The Monsters are Due on Maple St' show, the heroes could even fail.

But since you've made the claim: when did Kirk save Earth in TOS, direct threat or otherwise?

The closest I can think of is preventing the NazI's winning WW2, but claiming that's 'saving the world' is....nebulous. Especially when Trek's 'good' timeline still had WW3 nuking a good chunk of the world's population not a few decades later .

 

[F. King Daniel]

Doomsday Machine, Space Amoeba, ending the Klingon war, repairing the timeline all ended indirect threats to Earth/the Federation/etc

 

[Hela]

I know 'indirect' has wriggle room, but it probably requires more from a villain than a danger just happening to exist far, far away within the same continuity.

Otherwise we might as well just throw our hands up, and count every damn episode as a 'save the earth' story.

As for timeline shananigans, Kirk and co are the ones who keep changing the darn timeline in the first place. They were the greatest threat all along!

 

[F. King Daniel]

As for timeline shananigans, Kirk and co are the ones who keep changing the darn timeline in the first place. They were the greatest threat all along!

This is true.

 

[queerTrekker]

I'd have picked one up too, but they haven't really bothered with them.

it is weird isn't it? they did one for the first and i think for Into Darkness. Perhaps it was the use of music to defeat the super doomy weapon? I guess writing about it would be less impressive or something, that and the music industry is weird about songs mentioned in fics. maybe it was that.

 

[F. King Daniel]

it is weird isn't it? they did one for the first and i think for Into Darkness. Perhaps it was the use of music to defeat the super doomy weapon? I guess writing about it would be less impressive or something, that and the music industry is weird about songs mentioned in fics. maybe it was that.

At the time we speculated it was due to the rushed nature of Beyond's production, after Bob Orci's script (which was about the Enterprise crew, a Vulcan crew and another alien crew chasing after an artifact with the power to restore Vulcan, and supposedly was to have cameos by William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy as older versions of Kelvin timeline Kirk and Spock) was rejected.

 

[Khan 2.0]

At the time we speculated it was due to the rushed nature of Beyond's production, after Bob Orci's script (which was about the Enterprise crew, a Vulcan crew and another alien crew chasing after an artifact with the power to restore Vulcan, and supposedly was to have cameos by William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy as older versions of Kelvin timeline Kirk and Spock) was rejected.

cant help thinking that would've been so much better (and had bigger box office) than Beyond (esp for the anniversary)

 

[Kemaiku]

That's always been a problem with the books.

First Contact and Insurrections novels had the original script, and while it was fun to read the first draft, it was weird how it didn't line up at all with the movie for major sequences.

If a script isn't locked down early on, they don't have a solid framework for the novel. I'm happy enough with the film though.

 

[queerTrekker]

At the time we speculated it was due to the rushed nature of Beyond's production, after Bob Orci's script (which was about the Enterprise crew, a Vulcan crew and another alien crew chasing after an artifact with the power to restore Vulcan, and supposedly was to have cameos by William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy as older versions of Kelvin timeline Kirk and Spock) was rejected.

I guess that would explain it.

 

[fireproof78]

At the time we speculated it was due to the rushed nature of Beyond's production, after Bob Orci's script (which was about the Enterprise crew, a Vulcan crew and another alien crew chasing after an artifact with the power to restore Vulcan, and supposedly was to have cameos by William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy as older versions of Kelvin timeline Kirk and Spock) was rejected.

As much as I would enjoy that film, I have a feeling it would have traded too heavily in nostalgia, even for the 50th.

 

[Smellmet]

As much as I would enjoy that film, I have a feeling it would have traded too heavily in nostalgia, even for the 50th.

Guess we'll never know, didn't seem to harm Star Wars, but I accept Trek is a different animal that doesn't have anything like as broad appeal.

 

[Timewalker]

As much as I would enjoy that film, I have a feeling it would have traded too heavily in nostalgia, even for the 50th.

There's nothing wrong with an appropriate amount of nostalgia. I remember watching the Doctor Who 50th anniversary show, and I am not the only person by far who cried when Tom Baker appeared as the Caretaker (who may or may not be a future incarnation of the Doctor). We were just so damn happy to see him back on the show in any capacity.

It would have been a nice nod to William Shatner since without him, Star Trek's chances of lasting a single season, let alone 50+ years, would have been much less.