Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by PixelMagic, Jan 8, 2019.
oh. maybe we'd have still got Peggs Beyond even had JJ directed then
Sorry. I know that script is dear to you, and I hope we all get to read it one day.
I do hope its not the fans being to critical that has caused this.
There are no worst Star trek films, only most favorites. I think all the original cast films are master peaces ,and I .Love all three new films, the new cast are excellent in there enterety.
I like anything based on the original series I'v never been a fan of the Next generation.
It was Paramount Pictures (who are an utter shambles and are cancelling most of their big budget projects, like World War Z 2) refusing to pay previously agreed amounts for Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth at the last minute.
Hoping they still get star trek 4 made some how
I've noticed a subset of fans of ST09/STID seem to push this narrative that Pegg/Jung/Lin basically sabotaged/ruined the Kelvin films and how it was betrayal of what Abrams went for in the first two. I never understood that argument, because it's not like Abrams was locked in a basement the whole time that film was under development. This is what he signed on and approved.
JJ didn't have ALL the power, tho. Wasn't the only one deciding. He often gets the blame for stuff that wasn't under his complete control.
Hiring Pegg&Co also was a hasty plan c after Orci's fiasco and them having to save his second story, the one they liked with Kirk's dad, for later.
If we didn't have Trek on TV currently, I would probably be a little more sad over it, but needless to say I'm not surprised. I just made a long post about this in another thread, but this is totally Paramount's fault the way I see it. I'd argue that when 2009 was released, Paramount had an opportunity in front of them to strike while the iron was hot and turn Trek into a mega franchise. Star Trek was suddenly mainstream from what I saw; merchandise was everywhere and non-Trek friends of mine were discovering it. But, Paramount missed the boat entirely and we had to wait FOUR YEARS before a sequel finally came; which is an eternity in Hollywood. And it didn't seem to make any sense because Paramount officially announced a sequel was coming roughly about a month before the first movie even opened. It seemed like it was imminent.
My friend and I were talking about this and didn't fully understand why they'd have to cancel the movie because of Chris Pine. I never saw him as the big draw-in of this franchise -- unless it's different overseas, perhaps? I would still go see a Star Trek movie lead by Zachary Quinto playing a Captain Spock and the remaining cast. Hell, it's the Kelvin timeline; you can do whatever the hell you want. You could introduce a Kelvin version of The Next Generation, perhaps (the Picard show notwithstanding).
Yes, but he is a highly convenient scapegoat.
Abrams was very clear in wanting Lin to make his own stamp on Trek and was very approving of the creative choices that was made. He likely gave the same courtesy to Orci before he dropped out. To insinuate that Abrams had no control over it, as if it was a project that ran away from him is disingenuous. He was already willing to let someone else have a crack at making a Trek film with the second, before being persuaded by others to make the sequel himself.
I recall from interviews in '09 that Abrams said he was setting the course for future directors and it wasn't a sure thing he'd come back for the sequel.
I am curious what the story is with Roberto Orci taking on a big blockbuster movie as his first-ever directing gig and then dropping out. I don't think his being director was ever even officially confirmed but I could be wrong. One day I hope we get the full story.
Not one is insinuating anything here. Making a movie like this is a complex, collective effort where most of participants aren't known to the public but they have an influence. Things aren't black/white and someone like JJ doesn't have all the power. You gotta deal with other executives and investors who might reduce your creative power a lot. In the end, Beyond wasn't JJ's movie and even stid wasn't, from his own admission, everything he had wanted it to be. So how could beyond be?
I'm sure as one of the producers, JJ approved Lin&Co story and tried his best to promote the movie, as you would expect. Beyond was the best thing they had in that moment, but who is to say he liked it all? Tbh it was curious for him to promote the 'Kirk's dad' story as his favorite before beyond even came out. Intentional or not, it gave people the illusion that they saved the best story for later and Lin's movie was consolation prize as the only movie they could've made at the time.
You can like a movie overall but still think it does have issues. I feel like that about beyond myself, I don't think it was crap or completely bad and I think in many aspects it was better than stid bit still, I can't deny it was the weakest of the 3 and kind of made this trek go backwards on most of the stuff jj did to modernize it a bit. I also don't think they did enough with the characters and it's bittersweet if it's the end of this trek because it feels like a transitional movie. Maybe jj didn't care or maybe he did but he couldn't do a lot about it beyond, no pun intended, putting some suggestions.
It's true that he didn't want to direct again, anyway. JJ rarely likes to direct more than one movie in the same franchise, he did the same with star wars where they kind of had to persuade him into accepting the task again because he didn't want to direct more movies there either. People often say he abandoned trek for star wars but it isn't like that. He only wanted to direct the first one at first and he complexively ended up with a situation similar to his involvement in trek.
The difference is that star wars is controlled by others and it never really was his baby but more something he's a fan of and is ok about contributing in some way even if he doesn't have all creative control.
Trek, on the other hand, was a project that is more recognized as his baby but things maybe didn't go like he had hoped or expected.
I think the fact he couldn't do with it everything he wanted or even a big part of it might have contributed discouraging him and making him give up.
Ironically, it seems Kurtzman is allowed to do with TV trek everything JJ wasn't allowed to do with the movies thus kelvin trek (he had wanted to make it a cinematic universe similar to marvel but couldn't. )
Think the studio just got cold feet about Orci directing and his script with Shatner in a prominent role and maybe wanting to get away from TOS and have JJ crew do their own thing after the homage heavy 2 films (and maybe they weren't that keen on Shatner coming back in a central role anyway) plus maybe the scripts theme of trying to change the timeline as if to imply the Primeverse is still the 'correct' one and the kelvinverse is this offshoot that should be wiped ..(but then again think that was to be the plot for the Kirks father ST4..but maybe not as central as in Orcis ST3)
For what it’s worth, I had an acquaintance who worked for Kurtzman/Orci’s production office - he mentioned to me before Lin was named that Orci was never officially the ST3 director, Paramount was somewhat dragging its feet on naming one, so Orci started acting like the director (preproduction, location scouting, etc.) with the gamble* that Paramount would name him such if he started going through the motions, but it didn’t work out for him.
*=my friend thought this was pretty risky career wise, which seems to have been the case
I'll always say Paramount screwed Beyond with the July release date. The previous movies came out in May and it should of gotten TMNT 2 May slot because that movie wasted that slot. Bigger opening and better legs early in the summer may of helped Beyond at least settle somewhere between ST09 & STID WW Gross.
interesting and sounds plausible. its a pity he wasn't just content with writing and someone else directing (Rupert Wyatt, JCornish, EWright etc were rumoured). then again he mustve realised his partner was about to direct a big movie (Mummy) so its understandable.maybe
yeh I think maybe STB would've done better had it come out earlier (maybe to the tune of 400m ww) as when it eventually came last week of July everyone sort of burned and bummed out by all the summer movies (most of which disappointed - BvS, TMNT, XMen, ID2, Alice 2, SnowWhite 2, BFG.. it was really only Civil War that blew everyone away) plus STB had that awful trailer to contend with making everyone think it was another summer dud (and esp coming not long after SW when everyone still going nuts over TFA and gearing up for more that xmas with the awesome looking R1). where as ST09/STID were early summer and more crowd-pleasing type movies with very cool trailers even nontrekkies were intrigued by
My understanding is that Cornish was offered the job and turned it down, the others I'm not sure about. Also, both Orci and Kurtzman had always planned to go into directing movies, I don't thing The Mummy had anything to do with it.
Paramount are so smart to ditch Star Trek 4. They know the REAL money is in Sonic the Hedgehog.
I know we asked Sega to do something different. But making Robotnik a Stark-esque troubleshooter for the miltary to help rid the world of an Eldritch abomination version of Sonic was...not what we had in mind.
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