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Star Trek 4 Reportedly Shelved

I don't think this is "Paramount fuckery". This is "Paramount desperately struggling for money".
Like, I'm pretty sure they want to make WWZ2 and Trek4. It's not their job not doing movies. But they have to pay the cash upfront. If investors don't have confidence in their movies - Paramount simply can't finance them. This is a really bad situation for a movie studio to be in.
Pretty much this. It sounds like Paramount has some house cleaning to do in order to be viable again. It's not a matter of "they need to stop doing X and make movies" since a studio would want to make movies. Kind of their job.

As per usual, there is more to the story than fans will know.
 
Not sad really, Abrams didn't do enough research to alter the timeline properly, too much was already in motion prior to Kirk's birth . We should all know the Constellation was the first heavy cruiser constructed by Starfleet ( the NCC-1017 should be a tip off as well), as you saw the age of Deckers ship vs the newer Enterprise in the Doomsday machine. That being said if this reboot did the crappy Khan , not anywhere near a villain. If you are going to redo any episode why not make the Doomsday machine movie? This was probably one of the best multi ship episodes from TOS. Movie opening you introduce Matt Decker and the Constellation and show the events that lead to the destruction of his ship and loss of the crew. 30 to 40 minutes later bring Kirk and crew to the rescue like the original episode. There is more than enough there to work a full 100 to 120 minute movie. Just a thought since they pulled such a crappy Khan redo. Sorry no one could replace Ricardo as Khan, especially not cucumber boy.
 
At this point, it would probably have felt weird to have two different Spocks around - nuQuintoSpock, and even newer Ethan Peck DiscoSpock. Especially since both are supposed to be different characters in-universe, with different backstories, and not the same person at different points in time.

Then again - I'm a person that would have wished for the MARVEL Cinematic Universe Spider-Man to be played by Tobey Maguire again, and simply add the character of Miles Morales as a younger Spider-Man.
 
At this point, it would probably have felt weird to have two different Spocks around - nuQuintoSpock, and even newer Ethan Peck DiscoSpock. Especially since both are supposed to be different characters in-universe, with different backstories, and not the same person at different points in time.

You seem to suggest the audience will see disco Spock as main Spock now but I doubt it.

I think those who watched tos will struggle thinking of him as truly being Spock Prime the young. And those who only watched the kelvin movies will be super confused by this Spock who gets insane because of red angel visions, has a sister and works with a dead guy (Pike) instead of Kirk&Co.
They will see he's different from the current most recent mainstream version of Spock that is Quinto's.

But then again, is the audience of the movies truly the same of the shows? I have no doubt discovery wanted to get those fans on board too but the audience feature movies have is not comparable to that of tv shows only available through a streaming service.

I don't think the movies being another reality are the problem. I think it's more an issue for Discovery that it is neither linked to the recent movies nor the original thing they are remaking.
 
You seem to suggest the audience will see disco Spock as main Spock now but I doubt it.

I think those who watched tos will struggle thinking of him as truly being Spock Prime the young. And those who only watched the kelvin movies will be super confused by this Spock who gets insane because of red angel visions, has a sister and works with a dead guy (Pike) instead of Kirk&Co.

They will see he's different from the current most recent mainstream version of Spock that is Quinto's.
Yeah, kinda'.

I think audiences see Peck as "current Spock". Those that actually watch DIS. The Tom Holland to Quintos Andrew Garflied, to the "original" Nimoy Toby Maguire (if that comparison makes any sense). Someone who is not an "old" Trekkie I talked to recently said that you can't judge anything on "hard" canonicity anymore - From the different Spider-Mans, to Flash having currently both a tv-show and a movie in development, to how the Alden-Ehrenreich Han Solo is and is not "the" Han Solo.

So while Quinto-Spock definitely had a wider reach than Peck-Spock will have - he now too is part of "the old guard". Having him in a movie re-appear would be like a new Spider-Man with Tobey Maguire, or Christian Bale returning as Batman. It's absolutely possible - but it would be a "new" sell to the audiences why to pick up this old storyline again. Peck is an "easier" sell, because he is supposed to be the original Spock. But he's probably not going to leave a mark as big as Quinto, and by FAR not as much as Nimoy on the character long term.

But then again, is the audience of the movies truly the same of the shows? I have no doubt discovery wanted to get those fans on board too but the audience feature movies have is not comparable to that of tv shows only available through a streaming service.

I don't think the movies being another reality are the problem. I think it's more an issue for Discovery that it is neither linked to the recent movies nor the original thing they are remaking.

I think everybody that is seeing DIS at the moment has seen the JJmovies. Obviously not the other way 'round. For the people that came "fresh" to the franchise with the JJmovies - for them DIS is now simply the "new" continuity to follow. For the old guard - it's more difficult, because they probably take "prime" more serious, and there's tons of issues there.
 
Yeah, kinda'.

I think audiences see Peck as "current Spock". Those that actually watch DIS. The Tom Holland to Quintos Andrew Garflied, to the "original" Nimoy Toby Maguire (if that comparison makes any sense). Someone who is not an "old" Trekkie I talked to recently said that you can't judge anything on "hard" canonicity anymore - From the different Spider-Mans, to Flash having currently both a tv-show and a movie in development, to how the Alden-Ehrenreich Han Solo is and is not "the" Han Solo.

You forget kelvin Spock is one of the main characters of the movies while disco Spock basically is only the protagonist's brother^
And I hope for them he won't make more than a quest appearance if they get more seasons.
Discovery is about Michael and the other new characters. If they give Spock too much screentime it may backfire and alienate their own fanbase.

So while Quinto-Spock definitely had a wider reach than Peck-Spock will have - he now too is part of "the old guard". Having him in a movie re-appear would be like a new Spider-Man with Tobey Maguire, or Christian Bale returning as Batman. It's absolutely possible - but it would be a "new" sell to the audiences why to pick up this old storyline again. Peck is an "easier" sell, because he is supposed to be the original Spock. But he's probably not going to leave a mark as big as Quinto, and by FAR not as much as Nimoy on the character long term.

It's hard to say now, but I honestly think discovery Spock is kind of..redundant. He is a younger version of a Spock that had its time already and who actually died in the recent movies. He got closure, his story is..over. You can add stuff to his past, but he's doomed by tos anyway because we already know what will happen to him after this adventure in Discovery. We already know how his story ends. It's already written.
Kelvin Spock doesn't have an 'end', his own story is still work in progress even if beyond were to be the end. You can always, still, make a sequel of him. He's in the present, not the past. His future isn't written yet. They can do what they want with him.

I think everybody that is seeing DIS at the moment has seen the JJmovies. Obviously not the other way 'round. For the people that came "fresh" to the franchise with the JJmovies - for them DIS is now simply the "new" continuity to follow. For the old guard - it's more difficult, because they probably take "prime" more serious, and there's tons of issues there.

I think kelvin trek fans who watch discovery may feel a tad apaethic to DiscoSpock because he adds nothing to 'their' Spock who is Quinto's version. A nice extra Spock for sure, but not one who can replace Quinto's version no matter if it's 'new'.
Discovery Spock is a weird circumstance because he is new but he actually is the most 'old' for the reason I stated above.
 
Movie Batman. Gotham prequel Batman. Titans Batman. Animated Batman. A new movie Batman soon to be announced. And thats just currently.

There's room for multiple Spocks.

But then: Spock isn't Batman. Really, almost no one is. Not even Han Solo, as we found.

Yes, I fully believe there is room for more than one Spock at a time. But I do believe they would need to be sufficiently different from one another. Right now, I think Quinto and Peck are too "similar", in that both are kinda' prequel versions of Nimoy with a slight reboot-painting.

But I think that, say, an animated version of Kelvin-Spock could absolutely exist at the same time with Disco-Spock! Or if DIS leaves Spock alone for the next few seasons, live-action Quinto can also easily return. I just don't think it's a good idea to have them both at the same time.

You forget kelvin Spock is one of the main characters of the movies while disco Spock basically is only the protagonist's brother^

And I hope for them he won't make more than a quest appearance if they get more seasons.
Discovery is about Michael and the other new characters. If they give Spock too much screentime it may backfire and alienate their own fanbase.

Indeed. Especially with the movies having a far wider reach anyway. In fact - I think featuring Spock so heavily in DIS was a mistake. Hell, I think Burnham should have had Xon as her adopted brother, or none at all. I never liked her connection to Spock and Sarek - she should have stood on her own.

It's hard to say now, but I honestly think discovery Spock is kind of..redundant. He is a younger version of a Spock that had its time already and who actually died in the recent movies. He got closure, his story is..over. You can add stuff to his past, but he's doomed by tos anyway because we already know what will happen to him after this adventure in Discovery. We already know how his story ends. It's already written.
Kelvin Spock doesn't have an 'end', his own story is still work in progress even if beyond were to be the end. You can always, still, make a sequel of him. He's in the present, not the past. His future isn't written yet. They can do what they want with him.
I think kelvin trek fans who watch discovery may feel a tad apaethic to DiscoSpock because he adds nothing to 'their' Spock who is Quinto's version. A nice extra Spock for sure, but not one who can replace Quinto's version no matter if it's 'new'.
Discovery Spock is a weird circumstance because he is new but he actually is the most 'old' for the reason I stated above.

Hahaha, pretty well captured my feelings towards Quinto-Spock at the time.:guffaw:

Yeah, the only real open question is wether he works things out with Uhura or not. But Beyond heavily implied it's all going to be much more into the direction of TOS anyway. But who knows? Maybe a ST4 could have radically changed the direction of the Kelvin-verse again....
 
Yes, I fully believe there is room for more than one Spock at a time. But I do believe they would need to be sufficiently different from one another. Right now, I think Quinto and Peck are too "similar", in that both are kinda' prequel versions of Nimoy with a slight reboot-painting.

They are only similar in that Ethan could play kelvin Spock's sibling but the characters? Foundamentally different already.
Kelvin Spock is already working with kirk&Co, he has a girlfriend - he could have kids! - (while disco Spock won't, unless they decide to retcon that too), he lost his mother and one of his home planets, he has a better relationship with Sarek (supposition I guess, but there is every reason to believe it won't be like tos spock), he doesn't have a step sister and may not even have a brother. He never got insane because he had red angel visions. The more we will see disco Spock, the more different kelvin Spock will be.

No one could mistake disco Spock for a prequel of kelvin Spock unless they didn't watch the movies.
I think keeping them separated and liking them both on their own merit may be very easy, not to mention possible.


I just don't think it's a good idea to have them both at the same time.

I don't think it's an issue but IF it is, it might be more for Discovery than the movies imo.


Hahaha, pretty well captured my feelings towards Quinto-Spock at the time.:guffaw:

Not sure I understand why, though. Kelvin Spock isn't really a prequel of Nimoy's Spock.

Yeah, the only real open question is wether he works things out with Uhura or not. But Beyond heavily implied it's all going to be much more into the direction of TOS anyway. But who knows? Maybe a ST4 could have radically changed the direction of the Kelvin-verse again....

Hardly. Compared to tos, his emotional development was accelerated. He's not the same and if he were to become like tos Spock, it would mean going backwards for him and basically make it seems his whole character arc in the movies was...useless.

Him looking at the picture of tos Spock in the end doesn't mean he will be like him. He was only further inspired to not give up about his career and 'family' after seeing that it was the only valuable thing tos Spock had too.
It isn't only a detail that right after that scene he tries to be better with Uhura too by going to the party made for their friend and captain only because she is there and he values spending time with her. He admits that without any problem. Tos Spock would.. just finish his mission report ^ pre-beyond Spock would probably do his homework too and just tell Uhura he'd see her later anyway. In fact, there was a teasing tone in her question.
I think the fact he lost so much already and he almost lost more has changed this Spock and his perspective on things. He is always evolving, but not into how tos Spock was at his age.
In many ways, and the creative team said that too, the death of Spock prime was a pretext for this Spock to also move on and live his own life.

There is a line by this Spock from the script of the first movie that I wish they'd keep in the final cut too because it's poignant.
It's from the scene between him and Spock prime:
"My future cannot be determined by your past. We are one, but not the same."
 
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Not sure I understand why, though. Kelvin Spock isn't really a prequel of Nimoy's Spock.

To be honest - neither is Peck shaping up to be.
IMO both are somewhere on a sliding scale between prequel and reboot, one further than the other, but neither of them is in one definite category.

To be fair, I haven't yet seen anything from Peck other than promotional material - but IMO he is similar to Quinto's Spock in that for both cases it's a noticeably younger version more in line with a modern "sexy"-look. Nimoy has a face that screams "character actor", wheras both new versions scream "romantic lead". Not that I would complain mind you - but so far personally I see Quinto and Peck much closer to each other than either of them to Nimoy. Might be my TOS-bias though.
 
Quinto looked like an adult, though nowhere near the awesome, craggy face of Nimoy. But he did ok, except for Khannn, which wasn't his fault.

nu-nu-Spock keeps reminding me of kewl, Ashton Kutcher from 70s show. Oooh, his hair is rumpled! No bowl cut, he.

TIRED of hearing about Spock already. He's like Moby Dick for half of that novel.

But I wanted DSC to be its own show and not TOS direct-prequel which they couldn't resist. Kirk is soon to follow; tell me I'm wrong. Whatevs, YMMV.
 
^^^ granted. And Peck might leave all other iterations of Spock in the dust (Nimoy and Quinto), and I wouldn’t presumptively rule him out based on the little seen of him.

Personally-speaking, I do feel the focus on Spock is a bit much for my tastes, and is bordering on hype - and I’m hoping he lives up to the ‘pre-empt’ so to speak :)

Watching that space!
 
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