Standalone Or Serialized...

[Armus]

The appeal of Star Trek has always been the variety of storytelling, which makes it more standalone than serialized. I really don't think of DS9 was serialized to the extent people have claimed, with the exception of the occupation arc of season 6 and the last 10 episodes of season 7. DS9 had an overarching backdrop and many continuing plot threads but most of the episodes centered around a story that resolved itself in 42 minutes. So maybe its a combination.

You don't have to watch The Siege of AR-558 to enjoy the story in It's Only Paper Moon.

 

[Mudd]

And thank god you don't have to have seen much of the series to like what's best about either of those episodes.

 

[tomalak301]

I want both. You have have a big picture, but I want episodes to stand out and not feel "Filler-ish". The thing I loved about Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad was it felt episodic in that we got to see the crew with their hair down. What's wrong with wanting more of that rather than episode after episode having this twist/cliffhanger. My biggest issue with serialized storytelling at this moment is how episodes run together to the point where I don't remember what a single episode was about because it was just "part" of a long story.

 

[Mudd]

IThe thing I loved about Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad was it felt episodic in that we got to see the crew with their hair down. What's wrong with wanting more of that rather than episode after episode having this twist/cliffhanger.

Not a thing IMO. It was the single episode I saw of STD that I enjoyed.

Basically, if you can't tell me an entertaining story with a beginning, a middle and an end at one sitting I'm not going to come back week after week to see where the arc is going.

Out of mild curiosity, I watched the pilot for Westworld on a flight to England last spring. I was so intrigued and moved by that story that I wound up watching the season straight through on two flights, and not just because I wanted to see what would happen next.

 

[BillJ]

Biggest problem with serialization, is that if story blows you're stuck with it for the entirety of a season and sometimes longer.

 

[tomalak301]

Biggest problem with serialization, is that if story blows you're stuck with it for the entirety of a season and sometimes longer.

Yep, and Most serialized shows I've seen don't end particularly well, like all the CW Superhero shows. You have to stick the landing if you want to have a good arc, and not draw it out for an insanely long time.

 

[Lord Garth]

I agree with the complaint leveled against serialization that if you're not into an arc, it can torpedo an entire season. With shows I like, it hasn't been an issue for me to date but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen in the future.

Usually a new season is an outgrowth of the one that came before, so the story is along the lines of what I already liked anyway, but there was a show on AMC called Halt & Catch Fire that reinvented itself every season. Discovery seems like it'll be another such show.

I don't watch superhero shows, so I can't say anything about those. I mostly stick to AMC series and Orange Is the New Black. So Discovery is the only thing in the sci-fi/fantasy genre that I watch right now. Some day, I'll watch The Expanse. Enough people on here who know my tastes have said I'd like it.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Both. An ongoing story arc, but along with a story-of-the-week format.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Yep, and Most serialized shows I've seen don't end particularly well, like all the CW Superhero shows. You have to stick the landing if you want to have a good arc, and not draw it out for an insanely long time.

Even though I did enjoy it, I feel that Discoverys' first season is an example of this. I don't think the showrunners were that engaged in the Klingon arc and it didn't stick the landing as a result. The first season should have had a couple more stand alone episodes to pad things out.

The Marvel superhero shows have also become an example of this. With the exception of Daredevil season 1, I've really struggled to engage with the shows and tend to lose interest after a few episodes.

 

[tomalak301]

Even though I did enjoy it, I feel that Discoverys' first season is an example of this. I don't think the showrunners were that engaged in the Klingon arc and it didn't stick the landing as a result. The first season should have had a couple more stand alone episodes to pad things out.

The Marvel superhero shows have also become an example of this. With the exception of Daredevil season 1, I've really struggled to engage with the shows and tend to lose interest after a few episodes.

I'm finding I don't have an interest in Luke Cage or Iron Fist anymore because I just don't want to committ. It also didn't help that Jessica Jones season 2 and Defenders left a lot to be desired but you have to stick with these shows and it was starting to not be worth it.

Now I will stick with Discovery because I like Star Trek and I liked the comic Con trailer but man did the season 1 finale rub me the wrong way. I just want season 2 to have a plan and carry it out. I want to know these characters better and yes I want a featured episode with Airiem and Detmer and the other girl whose name I can't spell or pronounce, but it starts with an O.

 

[eschaton]

I think I prefer semi-serialization the best. Semi-serialization is best defined as having one or more plot arcs which move forward across a season, but there are "gaps" between at least some of the episodes, allowing you to imagine "adventures between the adventures." Basically this allows for the season as a whole to have a certain trajectory, but doesn't straitjacket the writers into conceiving of the entire season just one, incredibly long movie.

Discovery basically had this format more or less in Act 1 of the first season. You had the opening two parter, and then a series of episodes which were thematically linked, built off one another, but contained elements - from Pahvo to Sarek being "lost in space" to Mudd's revenge - which were more or less self-contained. The series basically abandoned this entirely in Act 2, which is presented as a straight-up six-episode serialized story - which is part of why I feel like the wheels fell off in the last three episodes.

Really though, Discovery's greatest sin was that while it serialized the plot, it didn't really serialize the characters. Arcs of the main characters were generally pretty hard to decipher. You didn't really see too many cases - other than Burnham - where a character grew from the decisions made earlier in the season. I mean, the characters weren't as frozen in time as Voyager or anything, but in the modern era of short seasons, you need to pack a lot of character development in a short period of time. Discovery didn't do this.

 

[tomalak301]

Really though, Discovery's greatest sin was that while it serialized the plot, it didn't really serialize the characters. Arcs of the main characters were generally pretty hard to decipher. You didn't really see too many cases - other than Burnham - where a character grew from the decisions made earlier in the season. I mean, the characters weren't as frozen in time as Voyager or anything, but in the modern era of short seasons, you need to pack a lot of character development in a short period of time. Discovery didn't do this.

I think Suru grew quite a bit in the mirror arc universe. In the first half of the season he seemed so cowardly, but in the second he finally grew a backbone. I'm actually a little surprised he wasn't named full captain, which would have brought his story full circle with how he felt that position was stolen from him.

 

[gblews]

I like serilization. You can't ramp up the drama in 40-50 minutes the way you can in 3-4 episodes or an entire season.

 

[johnjm22]

It doesn't have to be one or the other, you can do both to an extent. DS9 has a lot of stand alone episodes.

Personally I think all the serialized shows out there are starting to feel fatiguing.

Some one-off episodes can give you a break and nice change of pace from the overall story arc.

Doing some episodic stuff gives the writers a chance to explore things that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do within the serialized format.

With older Trek I always liked how you never knew what was going to happen when you tuned into a new episode. It could be weird or random. I miss that. In STD season one I always knew it was going to be a continuation of the same story.

 

[Armus]

I loved 24, which was as serialized as a show could be; each episode was so addicting that I would lose a whole weekend bing watching the entire season. I viewed each season as a long movie.

I prefer standalone because I think it makes for a more relaxed and less demanding viewing experience.

 

[eschaton]

I think Saru grew quite a bit in the mirror arc universe. In the first half of the season he seemed so cowardly, but in the second he finally grew a backbone. I'm actually a little surprised he wasn't named full captain, which would have brought his story full circle with how he felt that position was stolen from him.

I dunno. It's hard for me to disentangle Saru's written lines (which were mostly pedestrian) from Doug Jones' masterful delivery of them. After the eighth episode, they more or less dropped the whole "natural born coward" thing. But 90%+ of his lines from then on out could have been given by any Starfleet XO. I'm not sure if this was so much planned character growth as it was retooling, given there was seemingly no show-based reason for the pivot in his behavior.

 

[EnderAKH]

The problem is earlier Trek series aired 25 episodes per season. It's easy to pepper in stand alone episodes when you are doing 22-25 episodes a season, you almost have to to make your episode count work. It is more difficult to mix the two when you are doing 10-13 episodes a season.

 

[Ralphis]

If we're taking about something that's intended to be an ongoing series, then I'd like mostly standalone/episodic, but throw in some serialized elements. Every week would be new adventure and story, but the decisions the characters made and the relationships formed in the previous episode(s) would carryover to the next episode and beyond. It's not just a blank canvas every episode. Imagine if in season 4 of TNG, Picard dealt with some sort of PTSD throughout the whole season in reference to the Borg. We got a little bit of that in 'Family', but what if it lasted several episodes? The episodes and stories would still be pretty much the same, but every once in awhile you get a glimpse of Picard's struggle. (Note - Just using this has a hypothetical example and totally not criticizing TNG - it was a product of its time and had a formula it had to adhere to.) I'm not an "The Orville is better than STD!!" guy, but The Orville to an extent does do this, blend standalone with serialized elements.

I don't have anything against serialization (I love Game of Thrones) - but one of the greatest things about Star Trek, and one of the key factors why it's been alive for so long IMHO, is that you can literally take almost any episode of TOS or TNG, regardless what season it's from, and watch it whenever you want. You want to watch The Inner Light? Go for it. Got 55 minutes to kill? Balance of Terror sounds good. With serialization, there's a shelf life. You're not going to just randomly start watching an episode of Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad... or Discovery.

Now, if we're talking a limited-run/mini series, obviously you'll want to serialize it. That's a little different. A contained 6-9 episode arc with a certain, definite ending is easier to consume than an ongoing serialized TV show that kind of tapers off in the later seasons.

There, hopefully I didn't ramble too much.

 

[Armus]

If we're taking about something that's intended to be an ongoing series, then I'd like mostly standalone/episodic, but throw in some serialized elements. Every week would be new adventure and story, but the decisions the characters made and the relationships formed in the previous episode(s) would carryover to the next episode and beyond. It's not just a blank canvas every episode. Imagine if in season 4 of TNG, Picard dealt with some sort of PTSD throughout the whole season in reference to the Borg. We got a little bit of that in 'Family', but what if it lasted several episodes? The episodes and stories would still be pretty much the same, but every once in awhile you get a glimpse of Picard's struggle. (Note - Just using this has a hypothetical example and totally not criticizing TNG - it was a product of its time and had a formula it had to adhere to.) I'm not an "The Orville is better than STD!!" guy, but The Orville to an extent does do this, blend standalone with serialized elements.

I don't have anything against serialization (I love Game of Thrones) - but one of the greatest things about Star Trek, and one of the key factors why it's been alive for so long IMHO, is that you can literally take almost any episode of TOS or TNG, regardless what season it's from, and watch it whenever you want. You want to watch The Inner Light? Go for it. Got 55 minutes to kill? Balance of Terror sounds good. With serialization, there's a shelf life. You're not going to just randomly start watching an episode of Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad... or Discovery.

Now, if we're talking a limited-run/mini series, obviously you'll want to serialize it. That's a little different. A contained 6-9 episode arc with a certain, definite ending is easier to consume than an ongoing serialized TV show that kind of tapers off in the later seasons.

There, hopefully I didn't ramble too much.

Exactly.

 

[gblews]

The problem is earlier Trek series aired 25 episodes per season. It's easy to pepper in stand alone episodes when you are doing 22-25 episodes a season, you almost have to to make your episode count work. It is more difficult to mix the two when you are doing 10-13 episodes a season.

Good point. This is something to keep in mind while we're comparing DSC with previous Trek series especially in terms of the way the seasons are structured.

But still, in thinking about DSC season 1, I think it could be argued that the MU episodes were a mini arc within the overall Klingon war arc. It did work out rather well.

I also think the shorter season is tailor made for the season long arc.