Spoilers ST Picard - Starships and Technology Season Two Discussion

[fireproof78]

Programmable Matter is a game changer along with the minaturization of said Programmable Matter.

It took me a while to figure out internal Head Canon on how it could work in a realistic IRL fashion.

How does everybody in the 32nd century afford all the energy for floating ___ everything, when there was supposed to be energy scarcity thanks to "The Burn".

AI becoming common place in the 32nd century and not Hostile / Skynet like as in most other Sci-Fi genre movies.

Personal Transporters are so common that it affects the design of everyday architecture.

It's neat. It's cool. It's not new.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It's neat. It's cool. It's not new.

Programmable Matter is new as a UFP technology. It didn't exist before in ST.

The closest thing we had was Particle Synthesis introduced in VOYAGER on the fake USS Dauntless in ST:VOY - "Hope & Fear". But that was alien tech, and never really re-visited.

It seems like everything floating for the sake of floating, including your basic chair is now common.

Obviously very wasteful of energy compared to having a normal chair existing there, but apparently in the 32nd century, it's become cheap enough in energy that they don't mind using Programmable matter to form furniture when they need to and to disassemble it when they don't.

Friendly AI on vessels becoming common place is new since DATA was the first of his type as "Friendly AI" constructs are concerned.

But to see them mass produced and spread everywhere is nice.

In the past, we had to use a Transporter Room to transition to shift from many settings.

Now at the press of a button, everybody has "Personal Transporters" to do it.

 

[fireproof78]

Programmable Matter is new as a UFP technology. It didn't exist before in ST.

In Trek, maybe. That's not groundbreaking in a franchise held up as innovative with the cell phone and using items used in other franchises already.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

In Trek, maybe. That's not groundbreaking in a franchise held up as innovative with the cell phone and using items used in other franchises already.

Then by your definition, we're running into a slump and not much new if any has been created.

 

[fireproof78]

Then by your definition, we're running into a slump and not much new if any has been created.

Ehh...time will tell.

More on topic, I never thought I'd say this but I'm looking forward to seeing the Stargazer in all its glory.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Noting that there were cadets on the Stargazer. Training cruise, perhaps? We've seen examples (notably Discovery, but also DS9) where cadets were actively serving on starships in regular mission environments.

Mark

 

[fireproof78]

Noting that there were cadets on the Stargazer. Training cruise, perhaps? We've seen examples (notably Discovery, but also DS9) where cadets were actively serving on starships in regular mission environments.

Mark

That was my curiosity. With reports of Picard's new role then it might have been a training cruise that goes horribly wrong.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

IMO that clip was from the top of the episode, and we'll flash back from there. Picard was not in uniform, which suggests to me that he, Seven and maybe others were picked up by the Stargazer or otherwise ended up there when the Borg attacks.

Mark

 

[Deks]

Programmable Matter is a game changer along with the minaturization of said Programmable Matter.

Besides the fact that QS v2, Coaxial Warp, Borg TW, TW beaming, Tetryon Reactors, Kriega Waves, etc. would have similarly been game changers.
And as we saw, they were either discarded as 'viable' or not mentioned at all.

Pretty sure, Disco will be treating programmable matter in the same capacity (aka, nothing of consequence will actually change).

How does everybody in the 32nd century afford all the energy for floating ___ everything, when there was supposed to be energy scarcity thanks to "The Burn".

Actually, no.
The Burn caused active dilithium to explode... which happened predominantly on ships (and possibly some stations), because ships were the ones that used dilithium for regulating M/AM reactions.

Otherwise, we have no reason to think that planets themselves would have been using dilithium and M/AM.
In fact, they could be using a combo of solar, geothermal and wind energy... coupled with advanced form of fusion (if fusion was advanced in the proceeding centuries).

And its possible that efficiency levels reached such high proportions that keeping things afloat was simply easier without making it physically part of the rest of the structure.

AI becoming common place in the 32nd century and not Hostile / Skynet like as in most other Sci-Fi genre movies.

This was more or less expected to occur... and despite this, holograms are mostly used in SF. The notion that AI would be inherently hostile to organics is something that Trek should get away from - I'm actually quite sick of that trope in scifi because people should know by now that environment is responsible for behavior. Similarly, an AI would simply speaking follow its own programming.
If its programmed to be hostile to humans, then that's what it will do... if its not, then it won't. Its quite simple... but most scifi has this nasty tendency to make AI hostile out of the blue 'just because' (actually, its because of 'drama').

No mention of the synths in the 32nd century... we don't know what happened to them, and it appears that past the 24th century, there were no more Soong type androids (that we know of). Organic or otherwise.

Personal Transporters are so common that it affects the design of everyday architecture.

Do they though? Architecture has changed yes, but I don't see how P.T. would have done that.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Here's my best guess of what the bridge layout could look like:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CacYbCZFwKw/?utm_medium=share_sheet

Very much like a Sovereign bridge had a kid with a Galaxy bridge. Love what I've seen so far.

I'm guessing this Stargazer won't have THAT many sets besides the bridge and corridor, so they'll have to economize what they can use. I don't think this ship will be the center of too much action this season, but I'm hoping I could be wrong!

Mark

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And its possible that efficiency levels reached such high proportions that keeping things afloat was simply easier without making it physically part of the rest of the structure.

Explain to me how a Floating chair is more energy efficient than your standard replicated (One Time) for use indefinitely chair?

Making a chair float via either magnetism or anti-grav has to cost some energy, especially to make it perfectly still.

Replicating or creating a chair once, and then using it for the life of the chair until it gets destroyed is WAY more energy efficient in the long term.

The Laws of Physics & ThermoDynamics haven't changed, I don't think you can find a way to make things more efficient than repliating it once, and using forever.

 

[Deks]

Explain to me how a Floating chair is more energy efficient than your standard replicated (One Time) for use indefinitely chair?

Making a chair float via either magnetism or anti-grav has to cost some energy, especially to make it perfectly still.

Replicating or creating a chair once, and then using it for the life of the chair until it gets destroyed is WAY more energy efficient in the long term.

The Laws of Physics & ThermoDynamics haven't changed, I don't think you can find a way to make things more efficient than repliating it once, and using forever.

Well, two magnets can repel each other without adding an energy supply.
Something like this:
https://canyouactually.com/this-inc...ion-device-makes-any-object-float-like-magic/

Since energy flows throughout the station/ship constantly and is necessary for use of programmable matter... I'd imagine that using targeted magnetic technology would be fairly simple and not really energy intensive whatsoever to keep objects in place.
Micro magnetic pulses could be potentially emitted by the objects to keep themselves positioned, but I doubt this would be necessary with UFP technology.

If the floor is magnetized and made to resonate only with specific objects (it IS programmable matter so it can probably be made to affect only specific objects after all) then you can easily have programmable matter create a chair and desk (along with a bed) and only make the underside magnetized in such a way they are suspended in air a certain distance from the floor... much like in the above video.

Plus, when you're done with the room, stuff dissolves back into programmable matter and the room could be used for something else if necessary.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Well, two magnets can repel each other without adding an energy supply.
Something like this:
https://canyouactually.com/this-inc...ion-device-makes-any-object-float-like-magic/

Since energy flows throughout the station/ship constantly and is necessary for use of programmable matter... I'd imagine that using targeted magnetic technology would be fairly simple and not really energy intensive whatsoever to keep objects in place.
Micro magnetic pulses could be potentially emitted by the objects to keep themselves positioned, but I doubt this would be necessary with UFP technology.

If the floor is magnetized and made to resonate only with specific objects (it IS programmable matter so it can probably be made to affect only specific objects after all) then you can easily have programmable matter create a chair and desk (along with a bed) and only make the underside magnetized in such a way they are suspended in air a certain distance from the floor... much like in the above video.

Plus, when you're done with the room, stuff dissolves back into programmable matter and the room could be used for something else if necessary.

What's the energy cost for forming and de-forming the chair every day for sitting?

I know it can't be Zero Joules.

There is some cost there.

Even Turning On/Off magnets has some energy cost some-where.

 

[Deks]

What's the energy cost for forming and de-forming the chair every day for sitting?

I know it can't be Zero Joules.

There is some cost there.

Even Turning On/Off magnets has some energy cost some-where.

For all we know, the energy needed to form/de-form objects would be no more than the energy needed to keep programmable matter on standby.
Since the energy is intended for programmable matter, I guess its of no consequence and has become more passive than anything else... possibly no more than keeping the lights on.

Also, you're forgetting about energy reclamation and recycling.
In the 24th century, everything is recycled (energy included). Very little is left as 'waste energy' (if anything). I'd expect of this trend to continue (especially with the Burn).

And its also possible that people who move in an environment with programmable matter can be used as power generation batteries of sort... a supplemental system to whatever it is that powers HQ.
So, even if SF officers tend to expend an amount of energy for creation of chairs and desks to use, its probably reclaimed throughout the day via their movement, or even excess heat the bodies generate might be used as a power source too.

On planets, this wouldn't be an issue at all due to a combo of advanced geothermal, solar, wind, tidal, wave and fusion energy for example.

On stations, harvesting excess heat from people's bodies or energy from their movements woud likely be used as a supplement in power generation (admittedly not a big one, but still).

Or at least, that's how I'd design things in the 32nd century... but Disco writers probably hadn't thought about it that much.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

For all we know, the energy needed to form/de-form objects would be no more than the energy needed to keep programmable matter on standby.
Since the energy is intended for programmable matter, I guess its of no consequence and has become more passive than anything else... possibly no more than keeping the lights on.

VERY Highly Unlikely, even given the larger CAtoms as the method of Programmable Matter that I've devised @ 1 mm³ size and the amount of energy needed to move each block into position, it's going to be a significant amount of energy just to move, much less do the computation, keep the internal computers running, turn on magnets, activate force fields, turn on holography.

That's only 1 block, a chair would be composed of hundred's of thousands -> millions of these little blocks.

Also, you're forgetting about energy reclamation and recycling.
In the 24th century, everything is recycled (energy included). Very little is left as 'waste energy' (if anything). I'd expect of this trend to continue (especially with the Burn).

Energy Reclamation & Recycling won't get you as much as you think it will.
Have you even done the napkin math, or are you going to hand wavium the amount of energy it can generate?
You're not making any convincing arguments as to how much you can possible realistically reclaim.

And its also possible that people who move in an environment with programmable matter can be used as power generation batteries of sort... a supplemental system to whatever it is that powers HQ.
So, even if SF officers tend to expend an amount of energy for creation of chairs and desks to use, its probably reclaimed throughout the day via their movement, or even excess heat the bodies generate might be used as a power source too.

No, not happening. Programmable Matter consumes ALOT of energy, just having enough energy in it's Ultra Capacitors to run itself is an issue and to exist on standby, ready to transform. You would realistically need an external Power Core & Logic Core Blocks to run any item transformed via Programmable Matter.
That won't come cheap or easy.

Here's a rough napkin estimate for how much heat a human emits:

This means that the average person expends ~8.37 x 10^6 joules of energy per day, since most of us are in some sort of equilibrium with our surroundings. Assuming most of this energy leaves us in the form of heat, I calculate that on average we radiate ~350,000 J of energy per hour. Since Watt is just Joules per second, this is roughly equal to energy given off by a 100 Watt light bulb!

You're not going to be able to even come close to efficiently convert that miniscule amount of heat into electricity.

On planets, this wouldn't be an issue at all due to a combo of advanced geothermal, solar, wind, tidal, wave and fusion energy for example.

All that, Geothermal, Solar, Wind, Tidal, Wave, & even Fusion combined will still be a tiny fraction of M/A-M reactors.

The Enterprise-D's Impulse Fusion Reactors are of this caliber:
According to the TNG Tech Manual on page 77:

The total instantaneous output of the IRC (Impulse Reaction Chamber) is throttleable from 10^8 to 10^11 Mega-watts.

Let's not forget about M/A-M Reactors:

12.75 EW: In 2369, the generation of 12.75 Billion GigaWatts (12.75x10^12 MW) of energy was harnessed (over an unspecified time period) in the warp core aboard a Galaxy-class starship. (ST:TNG.S6.E06).
The script was supposed to have “DATA” state 12.75 Billion GigaWatts per second, but was cut-off for time.
NOTE: The source of “GW per second”; was from “Deks” based off deleted text that never made it onto the screen, but the likely reason it was cut-off was because GW or Watts are a Unit of power which is equivalent to 1 Joule/second. And the Technical/Science editor must’ve deleted it for technical/scientific accuracy.
1 Watt = 1 Joule/second.
1 Joule = 1 Watt-second which is one Watt sustained over 1 second.
The editor at Memory Alpha must’ve mis-understood what a Watt is since they think (over an unspecified time period) is valid; there must be a fundamental misunderstanding of what a Watt is.

GeoThermal:

The largest geothermal power project in the world is the Geysers project in the United States, north of San Francisco, CA. The project site is now home to 22 geothermal stations with 350 wells. The complex has a maximum output of 1,517 megawatts but, usually, produces just under 1,000 megawatts. Several companies operate plants at the Geysers.

GeoThermal Efficiency

The thermal efficiency of geothermal electric stations is low, around 7–10%,[17] because geothermal fluids are at a low temperature compared with steam from boilers. By the laws of thermodynamics this low temperature limits the efficiency of heat engines in extracting useful energy during the generation of electricity. Exhaust heat is wasted, unless it can be used directly and locally, for example in greenhouses, timber mills, and district heating. The efficiency of the system does not affect operational costs as it would for a coal or other fossil fuel plant, but it does factor into the viability of the station. In order to produce more energy than the pumps consume, electricity generation requires high-temperature geothermal fields and specialized heat cycles.[citation needed] Because geothermal power does not rely on variable sources of energy, unlike, for example, wind or solar, its capacity factor can be quite large – up to 96% has been demonstrated.[18] However the global average capacity factor was 74.5% in 2008, according to the IPCC.

Solar isn't going to get you much further than GeoThermal, same with Wind, Tidal, Wave.

Fusion would easily eclipse all of Geothermal, Solar, Wind, Tidal, Wave combined.

And Fusion gets easily eclipsed by M/A-M reactors.

And no amount of your "Advanced AI Algorithms" is going to change basic laws of ThermoDynamics.

On stations, harvesting excess heat from people's bodies or energy from their movements woud likely be used as a supplement in power generation (admittedly not a big one, but still).

It wouldn't be really useful other than to power a few LED's.

The idea of converting human body heat into a form of usable energy has been targeted by scientists for years. A resting human male gives off roughly 100-120 Watts of energy. A very small fraction of this can be utilized by a thermoelectric device to power wearable devices. As an example, Seiko's Thermic Watch managed to capture continuous a charge at only one microwatt, so there is certainly a viable market that has not yet blossomed. It being known that 80% of a typical human's body power is given off as heat, current technologies can only produce a few milliwatts of energy. This is not nearly enough to charge your iPhone at a power input of roughly 5 watts, and unfortunately this sort of efficiency may never be possible.

Or at least, that's how I'd design things in the 32nd century... but Disco writers probably hadn't thought about it that much.

I think you need to get a good grasp on what is logically possible by the laws of Thermodynamics before you make claims on power output and consumption.

Do some basic napkin math on how much energy is possible from all your "Green Energy" and compare & contrast it to what ST already uses, it's on completely different levels.

There's a reason why Fusion Reactors & M/A-M is the preferred Power Source and any power generation via "Green Energy" is a nice to have Freebie to run your basic homes on the Planet and power basic electronics.

It's not going to be competitive with REAL power generation like
- Fusion Reactors
- M/A-M Reactors
- AQS (Artificial Quantum Singularity) Reactors
- Tetryon Reactors
- ProtoStar Reactors
- Temporal Cores
- etc.

Those are on completely different scales of Power Generation / Output.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Today's preview pics from 2x01 show some neat new shots of 2401 uniforms and Starfleet Academy:

https://trekmovie.com/2022/02/28/pr...ith-new-photos-plus-clip-from-the-star-gazer/

- The cadet uniforms show clear lineage with the DS9-era versions, with their color selection and big deep pockets you can slip multiple PADDs into. Raffi's uniform, assuming it's not a dress cut, has the white trim seen from Lower Decks - but the front flap of the tunic seems to be in white too, where in LDS they are departmentally-colored. There's also departmental piping down the leg. Notably, the cut of these duty (?) uniforms is decidedly NOT as form-fitting as uniforms of olde, while the cadet uniforms are familiarly snug. Methinks the build of the lead actors in this series has something to do with this, and refreshingly so.

- The Admiral uniform is the same that Picard is wearing at some other point, but the collar is more scarf-ey - similar to what Admiral Clancy wore last year. Perhaps an official variation for those who like that sort of accoutrement? At least Clancy's weird grey one-off uniform is gone.

- I'm not sure what real-world building they're using for SFA, but it's got a commemorative display of historical starships, as SFA sets often do. This one has more detail though, including the reg number and Captains - the one for the previous USS Stargazer has JL listed underneath, and the Excelsior display has Sulu's name included. Not Styles or Ruhalter (?) respectively though, I suspect?

- The Stargazer display includes text which may read "Constellation Class Starship - In Service 2326-2355 - Captain Jean-Luc Picard". The 2326 year may take a bit to explain, considering her NCC number of 2893. It's generally accepted that Picard (class of '27) commanded the Stargazer from 2233 to 2255, and considered his old ship a sort of rustbucket at some point. Could she have been a relatively new ship? Hum...

- The text underneath seems to describe the history of the Stargazer from Picard's years aboard, and includes her re-discovery and salvage in 2363.

Mark

 

[Dukhat]

The prototype for the Constellation class NX-1974 was in service in 2293. There were also ships with 2XXX registries all the way back to TMP. I also find it odd that the Stargazer would have been commissioned in 2326, 33 years later, but only having a registry of 2893.

 

[Ronald Held]

Maybe recommissioned after an extensive refit in 2326?

The prototype for the Constellation class NX-1974 was in service in 2293. There were also ships with 2XXX registries all the way back to TMP. I also find it odd that the Stargazer would have been commissioned in 2326, 33 years later, but only having a registry of 2893.

 

[Dukhat]

Maybe recommissioned after an extensive refit in 2326?

I would have thought that the display would make that clear if that was the case.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I can dig that. Corroboration of this would be looking at the corresponding display for the Excelsior and seeing that she was in service from 2285, or after her own extensive refit in 2290-ish. Or a typo and the Stargazer was REALLY commissioned in 2306?

I've also taken a closer look at the painting of the Enterprise-D in Picard's (new?) study - and it's the same one as he had in his old ready room, or meant to be. This makes me wonder what the process is of salvage on crashed ships? Picard only stopped to grab his family book (also I believe in his study now) on his way out of "Generations".

Would someone have stuffed the Kurlan Naiskos and all his other belongings into big crates for later sorting through? Maybe it was among things in the quantum archive from last season? A Klingon dagger was in there back then, and it's now all boxed up next to the Tamarian dagger, arranged precariously on the corner...

Mark