I'd rather they didn't.
No camera shaking. Crew shaking.
Just like 1995. And 2009.
Spoilers ST Picard - Starships and Technology Season Two Discussion
- Thread starter Mark_Nguyen
- Start date
No camera shaking. Crew shaking.
Just like 1995. And 2009.
It's the modern era, making a shaking set isn't that hard, and it makes sense for Star Trek given how many times they need a set to shake.
And making it natural insead of faking it will be a step up.
The Enterprise-B bridge was built to shake, as was the Enterprise-E bridge in "Nemesis"- pretty sure some others over the years. It honestly doesn't show much, especially with veteran Trek actors who got it down over the years.
Mark
Mark
It doesn't. The bridge shouldn't shake at all.
I want Trek in the Modern Era but this is one place where I think it is a poor fit.
When the ship is completely destroyed? Yeah, the last time I liked that was TUC.
Keep the shaking to a minimum. Or just keep doing like Trek has done in the past. Don't fix what was already broken.
Oof! Here we go, partial random notes on this excellent season opener. Talk about an episode that gets so much of it right , right off the bat for a change. 
- What happened to the starship that got knocked over by the anomaly's appearance? It's not accounted for later. We presume it's the Akira-class USS Avalon.. Perhaps they retreated from the damage they sustained, and Starfleet detailed the Stargazer to take over?
- Elnor is the first "fully Romulan" cadet, which supposedly acknowledges Simon Tarses from TNG "The Drumhead". However, Tarses was not an officer, and deliberately skipped the Academy to get into space sooner (and/or to skip the greater scrutiny of his heritage). I dunno then if we're sideways talking about Saavik's unrecounted heritage as such, as that was never brought up on screen.
- Picard's home is a full set this time, instead of the one study room set which followed onto La Sirena (and the rest being a thinly-disguised California home). That study has been rebuilt to be more L-shaped and filled with Picard's mementos than before, including Klingon and Tamarian daggers, the same painting of the Enterprise-D as his ready room (or a replica, I know), and so on. Maybe he decided to change rooms, or maybe this new set is more like the library of the Chateau?
- I'd like to say that Picard is giving a commencement address to cadets about to head out on their second-year field studies, like Nog did as his excuse to be back on DS9 after being away for only a year. LOTS of awesome name-dropping here, though strangely some people got their assignments from an officer in-person, while others had theirs announced on the PA.
- This officer is a blue-clad officer with an Admiral's pips but not a blue uniform with a flag officer's trim. She was also pregnant, which was a deliberate choice for some reason.
- Seven has merged all of La Sirena's emergency holograms into one, with the appearance and name of Emmet, the tactical program. There is precedent for this, as Voyager merged the EMH and its diagnostic program in an attempt to resolve his memory problems in VOY "The Swarm". Maybe that's where Seven got the idea from?
- Oh, so it's not because Emmet's safety protocols are ON that he's intangible - he's just being fired upon and can't literally punch anyone until Seven disengages them. He's still be able to touch things. Strangely though, Voyager's EMH had no such feature we knew of - possibly because he had to have free reign to cause pain or perceived harm as part of a medical procedure?
- So is Raritan IV a colony world for the Deltan species, or their home world, or just where they have their fancy dress parties? BTW I love how what little we know of the TMP Deltan species is on display here. Perhaps it's because she's drunk that Agnes is not reacting to their natural pheromonal attraction.
- UFP logo combadges are a thing.
- My sketch layout for the Stargazer bridge was pretty close. I'm surprised that the freestanding consoles have multiple configurations: the ones on the aft end are meant to be stood behind, while the ones at the front have people on both sides and interact with an additional vertical display (which of course is readable from the side we can see, just like the ones we have on Discovery).
- The Stargazer turbolifts have a loooot of console space. Aside from an overal MSD-esque diagram, there seem to be smaller schematics of the ship plus color-coded destination lists in division red, blue and gold. Whatever happened to a guy just calling out where they want to go?
- That gorgeous dorsal view we get of the Stargazer flying by includes some callbacks to the original design, such as the twin domes seen on the impulse assemblies of TMP-era ships. I wonder if they serve a related purpose here, as they are close to this ship's impulse drives.
- There's also hints of a large shuttlebay arrangement, as there is at least a partial through-deck design aft of the bridge. The aft-end of the ship itself seems to have several doors, including ones along the aft rim that open up and a sort of hood or trunk design that could pop open as well. Maybe taken from the Steamrunner design?
- The new USS Stargazer bridge has perhaps the most extensive tactical station setup as seen on ANY starship, with dedicated positions for Tactical, Torpedoes AND Phasers! The starboard stations are Mission Ops, Engineering and Propulsion, even though the Engineering station had a blue-clad Bajoran officer working the Comms role, which is more traditionally handled by Ops. To the show's credit though, the displays at the Eng station show the M/ARC reactor at first, then when the blue officer is seated there it has shifted to a more sciencey setup ("SPATIAL ANOMALY" and so on), even though the non-changeable part of the station still reads as an Eng station. It shifts back at the end of the episode.
- Agnes later conjures up a further holo screen from the railing of that side of the bridge, though there's no corresponding station. I'd like to suggest that the railing itself is effectively a multi-functional station that can be used for whatever illustrative purpose the crew needs as they're working on the problem.
- There are several Andorian extras in this episode. Those in 10 (Forward Street) has a decidedly less bumpy forehead than those seen at various points in the DSC timeline. They're clearly part of the makeup portfolio for this show though, so hopefully we'll see them in other roles / places this season too (like that Lurian who's shown up in multiple places on DSC), and we can try to work out an explanation eventually.
- The transporter booths from last year are back, and cadets apparently beamed straight to their assignments from there. So do they show up in their destinations walking, or is there some transporter magic in play that does the same thing as beam people from sitting to standing positions per the needs of the plot?
- To the left of the USS Excelsior display looks to be a John Eaves DSC design (like the Walker class, but not quite IMO), but with a four-digit NCC, possibly named the Independence. To the right of the Stargazer display is the Enterprise-D, followed by the TWOK Reliant. Here's hoping that pictures of these will show up some day, before the inevitable Christies auction years from now. :P
- Admiral Sally Whitley is played by the same actress who played transporter Chief Maggie Hubbell on TNG. But seeing as the Chief's last name was never uttered on screen, and the Admiral is only referred to as Sally, that it's actually Sally "Maggie" Whitley (nee Hubbell) and the relationship with her and Picard is a very long one. Also an awesome way to imagine that a lowly transporter chief CAN work her way up to become an Admiral of the fleet in only 32 years, in-universe.
- Picard COULD have gone in full uniform, no? He had one for his Academy speech, and other reactivated Admirals have gone into the field with a then-current uniform (Jameson, TNG "Too Short a Season"). here he's in principally civilian duds with what seems to be a jacket version of the early 2380s uniform he wore in the S1 flashbacks, and no rank insignia.
- We barely get to see the Stargazer crew, as they're mostly set dressing for the show's heroes. But there's a notable distribution of visible ranks: there's a three pipper at Ops, as well as Rios' XO plus one of the security officers who are called to the bridge. However, after the XO, both officers with real speaking parts are Lieutenants.
- The Excelsior bridge is a re-angled redress of the Stargazer's, with one of the freestanding consoles positioned in front of the side console section. And what would Raffi's position on the Excelsior be? I'd say she was a training officer in cahrge of Elnor and the other cadets, but if so what would she be doing in a comms role on the bridge? Perhaps she was at ops for the incident.
- The Stargazer conference room has three gold models - the two we know, and what I'm told could be a STO version of a JJ-verse four-nacelled ship. I wonder where this fits in the Prime timeline..? Also on the shelves is what seems to be Picard's Stargazer dedication plaque, but we don't get a good look. This Stargazer's plaque is on the bridge.
- The conference room looks to be positioned directly behind the bridge, and the doors match... But when they go back to the bridge at the end of the episode, they re-enter via the starboard door. Omission, or is the ready room directly behind there, and the conference room is a redress?
- The Stargazer red alert alarm is a mix of familiar ones, including the whooping klaxon and the low-pitched buzzing tone from TMP. Speaking of anachronisms, the classic movie-era "ALERT CONDITION RED" graphic is all over, as well as the TMP era tactical reticle.
- Yay, bubble shields! Ish. We see that they are SLIGHTLY conformal, and not really a familiar ovoid.
- We've established that the assorted fleet is largely composed of ship models cribbed from Star Trek Online, which is awesome and if only they'd thought of that for the previous year's fleet. Not complaining about this one, though!
Mark
- What happened to the starship that got knocked over by the anomaly's appearance? It's not accounted for later. We presume it's the Akira-class USS Avalon.. Perhaps they retreated from the damage they sustained, and Starfleet detailed the Stargazer to take over?
- Elnor is the first "fully Romulan" cadet, which supposedly acknowledges Simon Tarses from TNG "The Drumhead". However, Tarses was not an officer, and deliberately skipped the Academy to get into space sooner (and/or to skip the greater scrutiny of his heritage). I dunno then if we're sideways talking about Saavik's unrecounted heritage as such, as that was never brought up on screen.
- Picard's home is a full set this time, instead of the one study room set which followed onto La Sirena (and the rest being a thinly-disguised California home). That study has been rebuilt to be more L-shaped and filled with Picard's mementos than before, including Klingon and Tamarian daggers, the same painting of the Enterprise-D as his ready room (or a replica, I know), and so on. Maybe he decided to change rooms, or maybe this new set is more like the library of the Chateau?
- I'd like to say that Picard is giving a commencement address to cadets about to head out on their second-year field studies, like Nog did as his excuse to be back on DS9 after being away for only a year. LOTS of awesome name-dropping here, though strangely some people got their assignments from an officer in-person, while others had theirs announced on the PA.
- This officer is a blue-clad officer with an Admiral's pips but not a blue uniform with a flag officer's trim. She was also pregnant, which was a deliberate choice for some reason.
- Seven has merged all of La Sirena's emergency holograms into one, with the appearance and name of Emmet, the tactical program. There is precedent for this, as Voyager merged the EMH and its diagnostic program in an attempt to resolve his memory problems in VOY "The Swarm". Maybe that's where Seven got the idea from?
- Oh, so it's not because Emmet's safety protocols are ON that he's intangible - he's just being fired upon and can't literally punch anyone until Seven disengages them. He's still be able to touch things. Strangely though, Voyager's EMH had no such feature we knew of - possibly because he had to have free reign to cause pain or perceived harm as part of a medical procedure?
- So is Raritan IV a colony world for the Deltan species, or their home world, or just where they have their fancy dress parties? BTW I love how what little we know of the TMP Deltan species is on display here. Perhaps it's because she's drunk that Agnes is not reacting to their natural pheromonal attraction.
- UFP logo combadges are a thing.
- My sketch layout for the Stargazer bridge was pretty close. I'm surprised that the freestanding consoles have multiple configurations: the ones on the aft end are meant to be stood behind, while the ones at the front have people on both sides and interact with an additional vertical display (which of course is readable from the side we can see, just like the ones we have on Discovery).
- The Stargazer turbolifts have a loooot of console space. Aside from an overal MSD-esque diagram, there seem to be smaller schematics of the ship plus color-coded destination lists in division red, blue and gold. Whatever happened to a guy just calling out where they want to go?
- That gorgeous dorsal view we get of the Stargazer flying by includes some callbacks to the original design, such as the twin domes seen on the impulse assemblies of TMP-era ships. I wonder if they serve a related purpose here, as they are close to this ship's impulse drives.
- There's also hints of a large shuttlebay arrangement, as there is at least a partial through-deck design aft of the bridge. The aft-end of the ship itself seems to have several doors, including ones along the aft rim that open up and a sort of hood or trunk design that could pop open as well. Maybe taken from the Steamrunner design?
- The new USS Stargazer bridge has perhaps the most extensive tactical station setup as seen on ANY starship, with dedicated positions for Tactical, Torpedoes AND Phasers! The starboard stations are Mission Ops, Engineering and Propulsion, even though the Engineering station had a blue-clad Bajoran officer working the Comms role, which is more traditionally handled by Ops. To the show's credit though, the displays at the Eng station show the M/ARC reactor at first, then when the blue officer is seated there it has shifted to a more sciencey setup ("SPATIAL ANOMALY" and so on), even though the non-changeable part of the station still reads as an Eng station. It shifts back at the end of the episode.
- Agnes later conjures up a further holo screen from the railing of that side of the bridge, though there's no corresponding station. I'd like to suggest that the railing itself is effectively a multi-functional station that can be used for whatever illustrative purpose the crew needs as they're working on the problem.
- There are several Andorian extras in this episode. Those in 10 (Forward Street) has a decidedly less bumpy forehead than those seen at various points in the DSC timeline. They're clearly part of the makeup portfolio for this show though, so hopefully we'll see them in other roles / places this season too (like that Lurian who's shown up in multiple places on DSC), and we can try to work out an explanation eventually.
- The transporter booths from last year are back, and cadets apparently beamed straight to their assignments from there. So do they show up in their destinations walking, or is there some transporter magic in play that does the same thing as beam people from sitting to standing positions per the needs of the plot?
- To the left of the USS Excelsior display looks to be a John Eaves DSC design (like the Walker class, but not quite IMO), but with a four-digit NCC, possibly named the Independence. To the right of the Stargazer display is the Enterprise-D, followed by the TWOK Reliant. Here's hoping that pictures of these will show up some day, before the inevitable Christies auction years from now. :P
- Admiral Sally Whitley is played by the same actress who played transporter Chief Maggie Hubbell on TNG. But seeing as the Chief's last name was never uttered on screen, and the Admiral is only referred to as Sally, that it's actually Sally "Maggie" Whitley (nee Hubbell) and the relationship with her and Picard is a very long one. Also an awesome way to imagine that a lowly transporter chief CAN work her way up to become an Admiral of the fleet in only 32 years, in-universe.
- Picard COULD have gone in full uniform, no? He had one for his Academy speech, and other reactivated Admirals have gone into the field with a then-current uniform (Jameson, TNG "Too Short a Season"). here he's in principally civilian duds with what seems to be a jacket version of the early 2380s uniform he wore in the S1 flashbacks, and no rank insignia.
- We barely get to see the Stargazer crew, as they're mostly set dressing for the show's heroes. But there's a notable distribution of visible ranks: there's a three pipper at Ops, as well as Rios' XO plus one of the security officers who are called to the bridge. However, after the XO, both officers with real speaking parts are Lieutenants.
- The Excelsior bridge is a re-angled redress of the Stargazer's, with one of the freestanding consoles positioned in front of the side console section. And what would Raffi's position on the Excelsior be? I'd say she was a training officer in cahrge of Elnor and the other cadets, but if so what would she be doing in a comms role on the bridge? Perhaps she was at ops for the incident.
- The Stargazer conference room has three gold models - the two we know, and what I'm told could be a STO version of a JJ-verse four-nacelled ship. I wonder where this fits in the Prime timeline..? Also on the shelves is what seems to be Picard's Stargazer dedication plaque, but we don't get a good look. This Stargazer's plaque is on the bridge.
- The conference room looks to be positioned directly behind the bridge, and the doors match... But when they go back to the bridge at the end of the episode, they re-enter via the starboard door. Omission, or is the ready room directly behind there, and the conference room is a redress?
- The Stargazer red alert alarm is a mix of familiar ones, including the whooping klaxon and the low-pitched buzzing tone from TMP. Speaking of anachronisms, the classic movie-era "ALERT CONDITION RED" graphic is all over, as well as the TMP era tactical reticle.
- Yay, bubble shields! Ish. We see that they are SLIGHTLY conformal, and not really a familiar ovoid.
- We've established that the assorted fleet is largely composed of ship models cribbed from Star Trek Online, which is awesome and if only they'd thought of that for the previous year's fleet. Not complaining about this one, though!
Mark
Savaak's ancestry was never made public?
The one-line dialogue snippet was filmed for TWOK but never made it to screen in any version. Assorted novels lean heavily into the notion, though.
Mark
Mark
The ship you think is named Independence is the Leondegrance NCC-2176, a reuse of an Eaves concept design for an Enterprise-E era ship, which was then used for one of Picard’s awards from the year 2327. Memory Alpha mistakenly calls it a Walker class.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Leondegrance
Talk about having the wrong design for the time period!
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Leondegrance
Talk about having the wrong design for the time period!
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Well, that and all of early DSC designs, amirite...
Mark
Mark
The other USS Stargazer NCC-1578 Radiant Class circa 2268 according to Bill Krause
Honestly? Boo. The ship is way bigger and fundamentally different in arrangement, other than the most basic of shapes. A Ship of Theseus situation this ain’t, and I’m glad the visual evidence suggests that this is a new build ship, IMO.
Mark
Mark
Haha.
That's amazing. Refits can be done and it is still the same ship. Thanks, Terry.
Sorry, but Terry Matalas is a writer and has zero credence when it comes to starships. I don't know why he was even asked this question. It's ridiculous to assume that it is a refit in the first place.
The people in charge of starships have already stated that the new Stargazer is a Sagan class vessel.
The people in charge of starships have already stated that the new Stargazer is a Sagan class vessel.
OTOH, I'm happy to give more leeway and assume the Ross and Sutherland and other ships are more evolutionary designs based on their clear forebears - just different enough to warrant a new class name, but otherwise able to use some of the bones of the originals (and probably the same factory lines back at the docks). Kinda like how the US Navy's Super Hornets are based on, and share some common elements with the original F-18, but are otherwise largely new craft that have a vaguely similar silhouette.
Mark
Mark
The merging of holograms is also the method Dr. Zimmerman uses while building his LMH in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?", layering an EMH programming template into his new LMH.
When Picard made his "fully Romulan" statement, my thought immediately went to Saavik, and then Simon Tarses, but I would have thought having some Romulan heritage was not unique to either of them after all these years. The dialog in "The Drumhead" is interesting, maybe a bit vague:
TARSES: I went to the Academy's training programme for enlisted personnel. I took training as a medical technician and I served at several outposts...
PICARD: Did you ever consider applying to the Academy, going the whole route, apply to become an officer?
Then they discuss the Earth Academy campus they both know well, and how Tarses at age 18 wanted to be on ships rather than in classes. I think despite the way Picard phrases this, Tarses DID apply for, and take, a medical technician course at the Academy, just not officer training. Genestra refers to Tarses' lie on his "personnel application", though, and doesn't make clear whether Simon filled this application out when he took the Academy training programme or when he applied to work on Enterprise. I suppose it is also possible that Picard or Dr. Pulaski/Crusher would hire an open credit guy without a diploma, but I do think Tarses could officially have been an Academy student, just not for the full 4 years, and not as a cadet.
When Picard made his "fully Romulan" statement, my thought immediately went to Saavik, and then Simon Tarses, but I would have thought having some Romulan heritage was not unique to either of them after all these years. The dialog in "The Drumhead" is interesting, maybe a bit vague:
TARSES: I went to the Academy's training programme for enlisted personnel. I took training as a medical technician and I served at several outposts...
PICARD: Did you ever consider applying to the Academy, going the whole route, apply to become an officer?
Then they discuss the Earth Academy campus they both know well, and how Tarses at age 18 wanted to be on ships rather than in classes. I think despite the way Picard phrases this, Tarses DID apply for, and take, a medical technician course at the Academy, just not officer training. Genestra refers to Tarses' lie on his "personnel application", though, and doesn't make clear whether Simon filled this application out when he took the Academy training programme or when he applied to work on Enterprise. I suppose it is also possible that Picard or Dr. Pulaski/Crusher would hire an open credit guy without a diploma, but I do think Tarses could officially have been an Academy student, just not for the full 4 years, and not as a cadet.
Not to mention that there are three distinct gold painted display models showing three different ships, and the Stargazer’s display at the Academy showing that it only served until 2355.
I think Terry's answer is better.
