Spoilers Spyfall, Part One grade and discussion thread

[Redfern]

So, no thoughts on the hilarious sight gag with the Doctor repairing the TARDIS hoisted upon the automotive hydraulic rack?

I'm sure there are people feeling it "stupid" or some other disparaging descriptor, but I loved it! It reminds me of the one and two panel strips one Christopher Cooke (I think that's the name) used to illustrate for the 80s fanzine "The Unpaid Scientific Advisor". The only difference, I think he would have included a mechanic in the first bay staring in utter befuddlement.

As the old expression goes, "That alone was worth the price of admission!"

 

[Noname Given]

I really enjoyed Dr. Who last year (esppecially the final one with the Scout Dalek) - but this one, ugh. A disjointed ridiculous mess, all for a:

Spoiler

IMO - ham fisted reveal that The Master is back. Don't get me wrong, I've always enjoyed the various incarnations of The Master over the years; but theway they handled it in this story...the who lead up was just random an disjointed; and that I didn't care for at all in the way it was handled.

The whole riff on Google as a whole was interesting though.

 

[N-121973]

I thought the story was okay, though Stephen Fry's C's attitude to the possibility of aliens seemed totally inconceivable, even taking into account the 'mindwipe' that somehow happened after the 10th Doctor's regeneration about Daleks and planets in the sky, given that he would almost certainly have been privy to much of what UNIT and Torchwood knew on the subject. As for the Master, I thought I recognised the actor from something Who related, I just thought it was a prior episode of the show. I'd forgotten it was An Adventure in Space and Time. I think another part of it was where he acted opposite 'Jo Grant's grandson' in Iron Fist and I believe he was in the Seance and Sensibility episode of DC's Legends of Tomorrow season four. Question, is this just a disguise or is this the Master's new form now going forward?

 

[Captaindemotion]

Question, is this just a disguise or is this the Master's new form now going forward?

The latter, I’d imagine. The Ainslie Master stole his body from someone else but it lasted him through three more Doctors. Plus I’d imagine they wouldn’t cast a reasonably high-profile actor like this in that role just for a one-off (I don’t think the Jacobi situation is quite the same - he was too old to face off Tennant as Simm did).

 

[jaime]

Spoiler: The Doctor Who Rumor I Hate

I don't know the source, but I saw going around on Twitter that there was word that a big twist/revelation would be that the First Doctor was actually the first of their second regeneration cycle, and there were thirteen previously-unknown proto-Doctors who were all women. With more than a half-century of show built up, I stridently disagree with this Morbius/Lungbarrow idea that where the Doctor came from should be much more interesting than what they're doing now (if it's so damn fascinating, why not make the show about the Doctor's secret period instead of making it a tease about how what we actually watch is inferior by comparison?), and declaring gender-balance by fiat, while probably intended to give the finger to sexists, feels more likely to be received as a lame excuse assuming the audience can't tell the difference between the lore of the show and the actual show being made.

Oh that one.
Yeah...that sounds awful tbh, and makes zero sense in the (admittedly somewhat loose) continuity and canon. Lungbarrow did something very different.

There’s just too much that contradicts that for it to work which...knowing our luck means they will :/

Sigh.

 

[Awesome Possum]

That was such a great reveal. I’m glad that didn’t get released early.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Spoiler: The Doctor Who Rumor I Hate

I don't know the source, but I saw going around on Twitter that there was word that a big twist/revelation would be that the First Doctor was actually the first of their second regeneration cycle, and there were thirteen previously-unknown proto-Doctors who were all women. With more than a half-century of show built up, I stridently disagree with this Morbius/Lungbarrow idea that where the Doctor came from should be much more interesting than what they're doing now (if it's so damn fascinating, why not make the show about the Doctor's secret period instead of making it a tease about how what we actually watch is inferior by comparison?), and declaring gender-balance by fiat, while probably intended to give the finger to sexists, feels more likely to be received as a lame excuse assuming the audience can't tell the difference between the lore of the show and the actual show being made.

I think it could work.

Spoiler: Pure Speculation

If it’s something like time lords have 13 regeneration in a single cycle. They then essentially reboot their memories due to a limit of how many memories they can handle without going insane. The core personality stays the same and they aren’t any differences than between regular regenerations. But the reveal of this is part of the Doctor learning that this is happening again and she’s losing the memories of her past regenerations.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I enjoyed this episode and gave it an 8/10.

The bit where the Doctor shouted out ‘Snap’ while playing cards - I could really imagine Tom Baker’s Doctor doing such a thing.

 

[Count Zero]

I narrowly managed to avoid any spoilers and didn't suspect anything so the reveal was breath-taking. Oh, indeed. Loved that Chibnall brought back the miniaturizer from the first time we encountered the Master in the Pertwee era. It fit with the feel of the episode. All that action and the motorbike chase plus the involvement of a state agency (with a rather narrow-minded leader to boot) and the Master -- it's basically the ultimate Pertwee era episode. Glad they had the memorial note for Terrance Dicks in the end credits. He probably would have loved it.

Until explicitly stated otherwise, I think it's safe to assume after Missy.

Interesting. I automatically assumed it's an incarnation before Missy. Maybe also because of the old school vibe of the miniaturizer.

 

[jaime]

I think it could work.

Spoiler: Pure Speculation

If it’s something like time lords have 13 regeneration in a single cycle. They then essentially reboot their memories due to a limit of how many memories they can handle without going insane. The core personality stays the same and they aren’t any differences than between regular regenerations. But the reveal of this is part of the Doctor learning that this is happening again and she’s losing the memories of her past regenerations.

New regeneration cycles were a ‘new’ thing for time-lords as of the Five Doctors era, and ‘13’ is actually 15, or 2 of the new cycle. Rassilon was deemed to have discovered immortality, it’s true (and apparently was resurrected) and all ‘dead’ Time Lords are kept as patterns in the Matrix on Gallifrey...só is this where we dump previous regeneration cycles? I am not sure it’s screen canon, but think it may be, that the Tardis is used to edit memories to free a bit of hard drive space as it were (as we also saw with the Hybrid situation and the Doctor/Clara) so...where do we fit the previous cycle in?

Even if we navigate that, there’s also the on screen evidence that The Doctor becomes the Doctor when he’s on the run (it’s essentially his renegade name, same as The Monk, The Master, The Rani, and less inspiringly Drax, and of course The Corsair.) is 13 still the Doctor now she is further along? (Which reminds me, there’s also The Curator.)

There’s fiddling with the fuzzy edges of continuity, and there’s futzing it up. The Other ruffled enough feathers, and that was with a lot less canonical/continuity history to worry about (NuWho has amassed a lot of lore in less time than the classic series.)

My gut feeling atm is chronovores and a multiple universe thing being tried again. Which would be interesting. Maybe we will get on screen Faction Paradox now xD

 

[jaime]

I narrowly managed to avoid any spoilers and didn't suspect anything so the reveal was breath-taking. Oh, indeed. Loved that Chibnall brought back the miniaturizer from the first time we encountered the Master in the Pertwee era. It fit with the feel of the episode. All that action and the motorbike chase plus the involvement of a state agency (with a rather narrow-minded leader to boot) and the Master -- it's basically the ultimate Pertwee era episode. Glad they had the memorial note for Terrance Dicks in the end credits. He probably would have loved it.


Interesting. I automatically assumed it's an incarnation before Missy. Maybe also because of the old school vibe of the miniaturizer.

It felt more ainley than Delgado, under a dollop of simm.

 

[Mr Soak]

The Doctor sending Ryan and Yaz into the lions den while she and Graham waltz off to Australia was odd, as was her leaving the bodyguards outside on their own when she knows they're no match for what might be coming.

Just like The Enemy of the World.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Christ, that potential twist is a stupid idea. Rewriting the show's background randomly again just for a headline value when Levine uses it as a pretext for his next stroke...

 

[Paul Weaver]

Multiverse, maybe we’ll get Piper and Tennant back

 

[The Wormhole]

Fun episode. Though I read a spoiler about the Master's return, I genuinely did not see it coming that it was O, as I was convinced it had to be Daniel Barton. I mean, hell, the thing about how his corporation is everywhere in all governments and militaries and whatever felt a bit too similar to how the Archangel Network in The Sound of Drums was set up. Granted, now that we know Barton is in league with the Master, that similarity is explained, but at the time I was convinced it was Barton. On the topic of Barton, I noticed his assistant when Yaz and Ryan first meet him is totally rocking the Patrick Troughton look. I will say, I had it figured out right away that the aliens were in league with the Master.

Don't know if I'm misreading things or what, but it seems at the end of the episode when the Doctor is transported to that "forest" or whatever the hell it's supposed to be, she seems to recognize it

Question, is this just a disguise or is this the Master's new form now going forward?

I've been wondering the same thing.

Spoiler: Rumour

Mostly due to rumours that John Simm was spotted on set for this season, and the fact that after the reveal, O is suddenly doing a near perfect imitation of John Simm. But then, that would mean that this is either a case of current Doctor meeting a past Master, or that Missy reverse regenerated back into Simmy, and I don't really see either being the case, so this probably is a new incarnation and the rumours of Simm being on set were pure horseshit.

 

[Awesome Possum]

He could have just been visiting.

 

[Count Zero]

Or maybe we get a flashback scene with him later in the season.

 

[Caretaker]

Goran Višnjić was supposed to be in this episode. If he was, I can’t figure out which role. Was he the glowing alien?

 

[diankra]

New regeneration cycles were a ‘new’ thing for time-lords as of the Five Doctors era, and ‘13’ is actually 15, or 2 of the new cycle. Rassilon was deemed to have discovered immortality, it’s true (and apparently was resurrected) and all ‘dead’ Time Lords are kept as patterns in the Matrix on Gallifrey...só is this where we dump previous regeneration cycles? I am not sure it’s screen canon, but think it may be, that the Tardis is used to edit memories to free a bit of hard drive space as it were (as we also saw with the Hybrid situation and the Doctor/Clara) so...where do we fit the previous cycle in?

Even if we navigate that, there’s also the on screen evidence that The Doctor becomes the Doctor when he’s on the run (it’s essentially his renegade name, same as The Monk, The Master, The Rani, and less inspiringly Drax, and of course The Corsair.) is 13 still the Doctor now she is further along? (Which reminds me, there’s also The Curator.)

There’s fiddling with the fuzzy edges of continuity, and there’s futzing it up. The Other ruffled enough feathers, and that was with a lot less canonical/continuity history to worry about (NuWho has amassed a lot of lore in less time than the classic series.)

My gut feeling atm is chronovores and a multiple universe thing being tried again. Which would be interesting. Maybe we will get on screen Faction Paradox now xD

If the new cycle is 12 regenerations (which it may not be), Smith counts as 13 and nu-1, so Jodie is nu-3, out of 25 in total.

 

[Caretaker]

I don’t see the problem with Hartnell to Smith being cycle two. It’s not like they haven’t been playing with the numbers before (I’m looking at you, War Doctor and Metacrisis Ten).

I’m disappointed that they outright said UNIT and Torchwood have been disbanded.