Spock Was First Officer in the Second Pilot

[Nerys Myk]

So...was Spock second officer in the first pilot?

Nah,, we see Kirk and Spock at the same time. Though the first close up is of Kirk.

Wait...what was the question?

 

[J.T.B.]

So...was Spock second officer in the first pilot?

Was Gary Mitchell the first pilot or the co-pilot?

 

[The Old Mixer]

I sense this heading into Roger/Oveur territory....

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I agree, on-screen evidence is pretty conclusive that Spock was first officer in WNMHGB and Mitchell is at least senior helmsmen.

HOWEVER, I always wished Mitchell had been first officer and Spock had been second officer. Here's why: I think it makes perfect sense to put Spock in an inferior position in this pilot because it is a PILOT. Part of what happens in pilots is establishing the series. So, the pilot would have to answer: how did Spock become first officer? He replaced Mitchell.

Also, the scenes between Kirk and Spock play like Kirk is not used to following Spock's advice, something consistent with the "Mitchell XO" theory. BECAUSE the series had such a huge emphasis on Kirk and Spock's relationship, the pilot would have had to establish WHY. Why does Kirk trust Spock so much? Because of the events of this episode.

And, look at the way the dominos fall in the series proper, particularly with Sulu. Sulu is in physics in the pilot, but at the helm thereafter. Why? Because he replaced Mitchell!

It gave the series such depth to imagine Mitchell as this sort-of lynchpin to the crew. He was the first officer everyone liked. The crew had experienced a few adventures together, but not many yet. One thing was clear, though: they could always rely on Mitchell, the captain's best friend. Then, BAM! The events of the pilot turn that upside down and Kirk is left with a two-fold void: he needs a new first officer and he needs to be able to trust someone. Mitchell's downfall was clearly that his emotions overran his humanity, so who does Kirk trust now? Mitchell's opposite: Spock. Meanwhile, Spock finds himself in an unfamiliar position with a captain he isn't particularly close to. So, the series is about Spock and Kirk growing closer after the pilot. And, Sulu has to take Mitchell's place at the helm and, during the series, learns more about his own capabilities which eventually lead him to commanding the Excelsior.

See? On-screen evidence aside, I think Mitchell as XO greatly improves the pilot and the series.

I agree with this. Spock being the Xo makes logical sense, but Mitchell being the first officer before Spock makes better dramatic sense.

When Dehner is aghast at Spock saying "forget Michell, consider the monster he'll soon be", her rant is directed specifically at Spock:

" I know those from your planet aren't suppose to have feelings like we do, Mister Spock, but to talk that way about a man you've worked next to for years is worse than-"

And she should know, being a personnel expert and all. So the question we actually face here is whether Spock and Mitchell ever worked together in a setting that excluded Kirk, or merely under Kirk's command, which gets us all tangled up in how familiar Kirk and Spock really are with each other.

It's interesting to think that perhaps Mitchell made it to the Enterprise before Kirk and thus met Spock before Kirk did. Maybe he transferred aboard sometime at the tail end of Pike's tenure. I don't there's anything in WNMHGB that specifically contradicts that, is there? Dehner's line about Kirk "asking for Mitchell on his first command" is vague enough that she could be talking about a ship other than the Enterprise.

A story with just Mitchell and Spock relating to each other in a pre-Captain Kirk era could be very interesting reading.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Dehner's line about Kirk "asking for Mitchell on his first command" is vague enough that she could be talking about a ship other than the Enterprise.

The problem with that is that it wouldn't make sense for Kirk to have requested Mitchell for his first command, but not subsequent commands (since they're clearly still close friends).

 

[The Old Mixer]

Try this one:

Kirk's first command was another ship.
Kirk asked for Mitchell, but didn't get him.
The Enterprise got Mitchell, thus Spock knowing Mitchell for years.
When Kirk took command of the Enterprise, Mitchell was already assigned to her...thus no need to request him again.

 

[Mytran]

Nice! Alternatively:
Kirk's first command was indded the Enterprise (Kirk being so young and all) but Mitchell was already there, having been transferred to Pike a couple of years earlier. Kirk asked for him (to be the XO) aboard his first command.

 

[Warped9]

Doesn't make sense. Starfleet (the credible one of TOS and not the ridiculous one of JJtrek) isn't going to give command of one of its top-of-the-line ships to some newbie without prior command experience. Hence the line "your first command" affirms the info in Kirk's character bio that his first command was a "destroyer equivalent class vessel." Kirk cut his command teeth elsewhere first.

And, again, the episode makes it plain it's Kirk, not Spock, who has known Mitchell "for years" (since the Academy).

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If Kirk's first command were the Enterprise, Dehner wouldn't have put the line about Kirk's "first command" that way, because it would have been like she didn't know where she was in relation to what she was saying. So, the line itself indicates that Kirk's first command was some other ship.

 

[Warped9]

If Kirk's first command were the Enterprise, Dehner wouldn't have put the line about Kirk's "first command" that way, because it would have been like she didn't know where she was in relation to what she was saying. So, the line itself indicates that Kirk's first command was some other ship.

Yes.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It also jibes with the exchanges between Kirk and Garth...about Kirk having established himself as a great military commander, and Kirk responding that he's mostly an explorer now.

 

[Mytran]

Fair enough, we'll stick with The Old Mixer's version then (I'd forgotten about Kirk's bio, it has been ages since I read it!)

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Try this one:

Kirk's first command was another ship.
Kirk asked for Mitchell, but didn't get him.
The Enterprise got Mitchell, thus Spock knowing Mitchell for years.
When Kirk took command of the Enterprise, Mitchell was already assigned to her...thus no need to request him again.

Yes, that's more or less what I was thinking.

And, again, the episode makes it plain it's Kirk, not Spock, who has known Mitchell "for years" (since the Academy).

We never said that Spock knew Mitchell longer than Kirk did. Just said they'd apparently served together for years. Like, Kirk knows Mitchell for 15 years, but Spock has served with him for 2-3. Something like that.

 

[LadyT'Anna]

Try this one:

Kirk's first command was another ship.
Kirk asked for Mitchell, but didn't get him.
The Enterprise got Mitchell, thus Spock knowing Mitchell for years.
When Kirk took command of the Enterprise, Mitchell was already assigned to her...thus no need to request him again.

Yes, that's more or less what I was thinking.

And, again, the episode makes it plain it's Kirk, not Spock, who has known Mitchell "for years" (since the Academy).

We never said that Spock knew Mitchell longer than Kirk did. Just said they'd apparently served together for years. Like, Kirk knows Mitchell for 15 years, but Spock has served with him for 2-3. Something like that.

A most logical hypothesis!

 

[Timo]

Yuppety-yup.

Starfleet (the credible one of TOS and not the ridiculous one of JJtrek) isn't going to give command of one of its top-of-the-line ships to some newbie without prior command experience.

This assumes the Enterprise was a top-of-the-line ship, rather than an expendable little tin can to be thrown away in some harebrained out-of-the-galaxy exploration scheme. (Which takes us right to the JJtrek world where something the size of the Enterprise might be overlooked and accidentally towed away as jetsam in yer standard naval review!)

It should be remembered that before ST:TMP, Kirk's ship is never Starfleet's preferred response to any of the crises Kirk ultimately has to deal with. Well, except for the show-of-force at Altair in "Amok Time", but there Kirk himself argued that the ship was an insignificant element in the parade.

Sure, "starship captains" are confirmed to be a special breed, but so were submarine skippers, despite the relative insignificance of their commands!

For the other side of the stock arguments, Spock the Half-Vulcanian might be a major PR coup for Starfleet, and placing him aboard an insignificant vessel would seem counterproductive, even if he rapidly rose to be her XO.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Warped9]

^^ Oh, brother.

 

[BillJ]

Well, except for the show-of-force at Altair in "Amok Time", but there Kirk himself argued that the ship was an insignificant element in the parade.

You're not sending insignificant ships when you're wanting to send a signal "clear to the Klingon Empire".

Our appearance there is a demonstration of friendship and strength which will cause ripples clear to the Klingon Empire.

I think that the Constitution class is special, or else you wouldn't get five of them together for M-5 trials in "The Ultimate Computer". In the episode, Kirk talks about the prestige of starship command.

Are the Constitution's the top of the line? Depends on what outside of the actual episodes you choose to believe. Like the Franz Joseph three-nacelled Dreadnaught class. But, I think the implications from the episodes themselves are pretty clear, going all the way back to "Balance of Terror". You aren't going to send lesser people and equipment to handle a situation that could lead you into a bloody war.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Are the Constitution's the top of the line? Depends on what outside of the actual episodes you choose to believe. Like the Franz Joseph three-nacelled Dreadnaught class.

The FJ Dreadnoughts were still "under construction" during the TOS timeframe. By the stardate given in the tech manual of 6066, they weren't scheduled to enter service until the late TAS era at the earliest.

 

[Timo]

You're not sending insignificant ships when you're wanting to send a signal "clear to the Klingon Empire".

Yet the signal might be due to the presence of the two battleships, not the mere heavy cruiser that rounds out the parade formation. We have no real idea what the two other starships ordered to Altair would have been like, after all.

From the exchanges we got, it is at least possible that Starfleet was trying to scrape together a fairly random formation. Real world examples often involve ships of secondary import in addition to the main showpieces - it's not called "gunboat" diplomacy for nothing!

I think that the Constitution class is special, or else you wouldn't get five of them together for M-5 trials in "The Ultimate Computer".

The test wouldn't be all that meaningful if the M-5 ship were pitted against a non- M-5 starship of some completely different type, now would it? Using the same type of ship (apparently a dime-in-a-dozen design since five can be trivially diverted to such exercises) provides best possible representative data!

But, I think the implications from the episodes themselves are pretty clear, going all the way back to "Balance of Terror".

That's another telling episode: Starfleet didn't send Kirk to deal with the new Romulan supership - Kirk ended up fighting her by accident. Indeed, what Starfleet did send Kirk to do was patrol a border that had been silent for a century! Hardly a prestigious or even halfway important assignment.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

Are the Constitution's the top of the line? Depends on what outside of the actual episodes you choose to believe. Like the Franz Joseph three-nacelled Dreadnaught class.

The FJ Dreadnoughts were still "under construction" during the TOS timeframe. By the stardate given in the tech manual of 6066, they weren't scheduled to enter service until the late TAS era at the earliest.

Thanks for the correction. Been a while since I read the Starfleet Technical Manual.