Spidey OUT of MCU

[The Nth Doctor]

Because they can never admit they are wrong and just move on...

Bingo. That one. DigificWriter is simply incapable of ever saying he's wrong about anything. He keeps moving the goalposts and when he's thoroughly proven wrong, he suddenly disappears for several days until he quietly returns and pretends like nothing ever happened. He's done this sooo may times in so many threads that I've lost track.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Bingo. That one. DigificWriter is simply incapable of ever saying he's wrong about anything. He keeps moving the goalposts and when he's thoroughly proven wrong, he suddenly disappears for several days until he quietly returns and pretends like nothing ever happened. He's done this sooo may times in so many threads that I've lost track.

#amazo

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Again, how they relate and interact to each other can be good or bad. Peter fighting Captain America and not reacting to that's he's still both at large and widely popular feels at best way too inconsistent while him wanting to join the Avengers when Tony seems to be the only member and Rhodey his only supporter also or more so makes the character seem oblivious.

True.

Raimi emphasizing much more Peter's angst over his cockiness was a change but not a real damaging one, especially given that Peter often wasn't that cocky when going against the Green Goblin or, I believe, Dr. Octopus.

Agreed; he was comic spot-on in that he used mockery as a defense, but he was--at his core--struggling to do his job, not pump his chest out to anyone.

Because he felt that was a necessary way to support himself and his aunt, not because he wanted the glory of being on the team.

Exactly. Anyone who read that story cannot use that as a parallel to the behavior of the "I wanna be recognized/sidekick, Mr. Stark" MCU Spider-Man. The comic version always saw joining a team as a practical matter to find some kind of support, but not only did it fail to work out (in the Silver Age), but he always decided to back away as the conditions were not to his liking, such as his (ultimately) not wanting to join the Avengers (after they sent him to capture the Hulk) and wanting to remain independent as seen in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #3 (1966).

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Howcome in the Sam Raimi movies Peter's web shooting was a mutation and in the Sony movies he made a device to do that? Was that director's choice or is there an actual reason they did that in the Sam Raimi movies?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Howcome in the Sam Raimi movies Peter's web shooting was a mutation and in the Sony movies he made a device to do that? Was that director's choice or is there an actual reason they did that in the Sam Raimi movies?

They are all Sony movies...

I feel like it was in Cameron’s treatment back in the 90s. I don’t know why Raimi went with it and Webb went back to the more comic book true version, but the mutation always made more sense to me. How did Parker, with no money, no real lab, invent something that scientists with money behind them haven’t been able to do?

Why have all the powers and abilities of a spider except for one of THE defining characteristics?

 

[theenglish]

In the Ultimate Universe, weren't the webslingers actually an invention of his father?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

They are all Sony movies...

I feel like it was in Cameron’s treatment back in the 90s. I don’t know why Raimi went with it and Webb went back to the more comic book true version, but the mutation always made more sense to me. How did Parker, with no money, no real lab, invent something that scientists with money behind them haven’t been able to do?

Why have all the powers and abilities of a spider except for one of THE defining characteristics?

Because he had comic book smarts...

 

[Anwar]

True.

Tony explained that they were wrong about Cap's reasoning and motivation later and "The Hunt" was off, Peter accepted that. Easy.

Agreed; he was comic spot-on in that he used mockery as a defense, but he was--at his core--struggling to do his job, not pump his chest out to anyone.

And what about those times in the Ultimate comics where he WAS pumping his chest out?

Exactly. Anyone who read that story cannot use that as a parallel to the behavior of the "I wanna be recognized/sidekick, Mr. Stark" MCU Spider-Man. The comic version always saw joining a team as a practical matter to find some kind of support, but not only did it fail to work out (in the Silver Age), but he always decided to back away as the conditions were not to his liking

You mean those contrived idiocies as to why he'd always leave a team? That stuff don't fly in the MCU where they don't feel the need to reset to the status quo all the time. This isn't FoX-Men.

 

[Tosk]

These conversations about "how Spidey would act" will always run in circles. Over the decades, Pete has acted a multitude of different ways (understandably) so you can find stuff to back up most positions on who the "true" Peter is.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You mean those contrived idiocies as to why he'd always leave a team? That stuff don't fly in the MCU where they don't feel the need to reset to the status quo all the time. This isn't FoX-Men.

No, the MCU transformed Spider-Man from his overcoming struggles as an individual into Spidey-Lad the Boy Wonder begging to join/impress the object of his hero worship/out of nowhere surrogate daddy issue.

Sony will be better off never taking a similar path with their Spider-Man.

 

[tomswift2002]

I’m not going to read the last 28 pages, but really I never liked the MCU version of Spidey. I found he came off as too much of a complainer and was just annoying to watch, and with Stark giving him tech, it really dumbed down his mental capacity. Sure Stark took it away, but at the same time, I never got that Parker was a super-smart-nerd, like the Tobey Maguire movies showed or even going back to the 60’s cartoon. Maybe it’s just that in the 2010’s it is politically incorrect to portray one person as a “Super Genius” when they are trying to get across that it is politically correct to say that everyone is equal and there are no “Super Geniuses” whereas the 60’s allowed Peter Parker to be a “Super Genius” and be like Tom Swift.

Of course it was nice that the MCU didn’t redo his origin again, which really turned me off of the “Amazing Spider-Man” movies.

Suffice it to say, it’s nice that Spider-Man is out for the time being, but I hope Sony doesn’t add him to the dreadful “Venom” universe. Maybe the could launch a series where Parker is in University and married to Mary Jane.

 

[EnderAKH]

No, the MCU transformed Spider-Man from his overcoming struggles as an individual into Spidey-Lad the Boy Wonder begging to join/impress the object of his hero worship/out of nowhere surrogate daddy issue.

Sony will be better off never taking a similar path with their Spider-Man.

You understand that all came from the comics, right? In the run up to and during the first Civil War mini series, he became a protege of Tony Starks, who even made him the iron spider suit. They were trying to mine a section of the comics that hadn't been done a million times in cartoons, movies, and crappy 70s TV shows.

 

[DigificWriter]

You understand that all came from the comics, right? In the run up to and during the first Civil War mini series, he became a protege of Tony Starks, who even made him the iron spider suit.

And your point is?

Just because it was done in the comics doesn't mean it was a good story direction to go in with the character.

Sony now has a chance to "course-correct" a little bit by using Homecoming and Far From Home as a springboard for moving the character back into being more than just "Tony Stark's sidekick", acknowledging those movies' existence while also moving away from what they did.

 

[The Lensman]

I’m not going to read the last 28 pages,

I've read more than I should've and you're not missing anything.

Raimi emphasizing much more Peter's angst over his cockiness was....

Spot on to the Spider-Man I grew up on in the 70's and 80's. In the earliest of issues, he's portrayed as a total social outcast with no friends, his home life with Aunt May and Uncle Ben being the only place where he finds love and acceptance. When he becomes Spidey, he gains some confidence and cockiness behind the mask, and believes he'll finally gain acceptance like the rest of burgeoning superhero community, but that doesn't happen. He's rejected by the Fantastic Four, and the public at large views him as a menace, thanks in no small part to Jameson. And he's bemoaning this fairly regularly. This feeling like an outsider and the angst resonated with the ever increasing teen readership.

The Raimi movies captured the Spidey I grew up with perfectly. The only thing Toby couldn't do was crack wise as Spidey. Otherwise he was perfect.

Tom Holland's "Golly Mr. Stark" Parker doesn't resonate with me as he doesn't feel true to the character I grew up with and I don't care enough about any later versions to give a shit. A buddy of mine asked me if I wanted to go see the latest Spidey movie just days ago. I told him no, cause I realized i just don't give a shit about Tom Holland's Spidey, making this the first Spider-Man / big budget superhero movie I won't see on the big screen.

Maybe it’s just that in the 2010’s it is politically incorrect to portray one person as a “Super Genius” when they are trying to get across that it is politically correct to say that everyone is equal and there are no “Super Geniuses”

Yeah, no. That literally has nothing to do with anything regarding Spider-Man or the creative choices they made as they have more than amply demonstrated that Tony Stark is not only a "super genius" but one who could build an Arc Reactor in a cave in the middle of nowhere, while scientists with the latest tech at their disposal couldn't. Also he built Iron Man armor which got more powerful with every movie. So no, it has nothing to do with 'political correctness'

 

[Nerys Myk]

How did Parker, with no money, no real lab, invent something that scientists with money behind them haven’t been able to do?

Midtown High has an amazing chem lab. Maybe better the the Central City forensics lab.

 

[Noname Given]

Midtown High has an amazing chem lab. Maybe better the the Central City forensics lab.

Yeah, hell, they could irradiate spiders

 

[Professor Zoom]

Midtown High has an amazing chem lab. Maybe better the the Central City forensics lab.

Every lab, everywhere it seems.

 

[The Lensman]

Yeah, hell, they could irradiate spiders

I thought that was a science exhibit at some other place?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

And your point is?

Just because it was done in the comics doesn't mean it was a good story direction to go in with the character.

All so true. Others are talking about what worked in the comics, what defined and made the character memorable / important to that fictional universe, not just grab whatever crap was published and toss in on screen.

Spot on to the Spider-Man I grew up on in the 70's and 80's. In the earliest of issues, Peter is a total outcast. He's portrayed as a total social outcast with no friends, his home life with Aunt May and Uncle Ben being the only place where he finds love and acceptance. When he becomes Spidey, he gains some confidence and cockiness behind the mask, and believes he'll finally gain acceptance like the rest of burgeoning superhero community, but that doesn't happen. He's rejected by the Fantastic Four, and the public at large views him as a menace, thanks in no small part to Jameson.

..and that's nowhere to be found with MCU / "You're my hero, Mister Stark" Spider-Man.

The Raimi movies captured the Spidey I grew up with perfectly.

Well, that's what happened when the filmmaker was a real, longtime fan of the character, and his greatest published stories. He respected that, and put the best of what the character could be on screen.

Tom Holland's "Golly Mr. Stark" Parker doesn't resonate with me as he doesn't feel true to the character I grew up with

Yes--as a stating point for the character, MCU Spider-Man is far removed from where he needed to be emotionally and how he related to the world.

 

[EnderAKH]

And your point is?

Just because it was done in the comics doesn't mean it was a good story direction to go in with the character.

Sony now has a chance to "course-correct" a little bit by using Homecoming and Far From Home as a springboard for moving the character back into being more than just "Tony Stark's sidekick", acknowledging those movies' existence while also moving away from what they did.

My apologies, I thought I was perfectly clear, what with the quoting and all. Let me spell it out clearly for you. HE said "The MCU transformed Spider-Man from his overcoming struggles as an individual into Spidey-Lad the Boy Wonder blah blah blah," to which I pointed out the MCU did no such thing, Marvel Comics publishing "transformed Spider-Man from his overcoming struggles as an individual into Spidey-Lad the Boy Wonder blah blah blah" 10 years before Captain America Civil War ever came out. And THEN I pointed out the probable reason for doing this. If one would like to blame someone for the direction the two most recent movies took Spider-Man, I just wanted to point out that the blame properly lies with the people who created and own the character. However, since both movies were incredibly successful, I would think the only people looking for someone to blame reside mostly in this thread.