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Spidey OUT of MCU

Nerys Myk said:
Backing away from this exchange, I guess?
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No.

As I talked about in the parts of my post that you chose not to quote, Spider-Man Homecoming isn't "The Tony Stark Show guest-starring Peter Parker" because of Robert Downey Jr.'s screentime in it, but because of how it makes Peter so narratively dependent on and interconnected with Tony.
 
DigificWriter said:
No.

As I talked about in the parts of my post that you chose not to quote, Spider-Man Homecoming isn't "The Tony Stark Show guest-starring Peter Parker" because of Robert Downey Jr.'s screentime in it, but because of how Peter is narratively made to be so dependent on and interconnected with Tony in it.
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Still backtracking I see. You straight up doubted RDJ limited screen time.
 
Nerys Myk said:
Still backtracking I see. You straight up doubted RDJ limited screen time.
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I'm not backtracking at all.

Homecoming does not present itself as a movie wherein Robert Downey Jr. only has 8 minutes of screentime... hence my doubts as to the veracity of that claim.
 
While it is true Tony does have a huge thematic presence in the film, the whole plot was about Keaton taking from Tony. He got all of his power that way. Keaton was completely dependent on Tony like a parasite. Peter's arc is realizing he can't be the same and must stand on his own.
 
CorporalClegg said:
While it is true Tony does have a huge thematic presence in the film, the whole plot was about Keaton taking from Tony. He got all of his power that way. Keaton was completely dependent on Tony like a parasite. Peter's arc is realizing he can't be the same and must stand on his own.
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Vulture got all his power by stealing confiscated Chitauri technology from Damage Control. Which no on ever noticed because DC only had a mandate to lock everything away in a vault, not do anything with it. Tony may have funded Damage Control, but that doesn't make Vulture's actions 'stealing from Tony'. He was acting as a literal vulture, living off the technological scraps of the Battle of New York. Tony really wasn't relevant to that.
 
Anwar said:
No, I just don't see the point of having the characters act like no one else exists in the world but them when other characters being around can easily enrich the experience.

Like Falcon in the first Ant-Man movie, or Dr Strange in Thor Ragnarok. Small appearances, but very important ones.

Spider-Man not being the only hero to exist in the world in no way compromises his essence.



They crossed over all the damn time.



And his other appearances in other books and other characters showing up in his in no way messed with that.
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One of the very first issue of Amazing Spider-Man has him trying to get the Fantastic Four to let him join them, so he's been crossing over with other characters since the very beginning.
 
It was his second appearance overall, having debuted in Amazing Fantasy 15, but he tried to join the FF in the first issue of ASM.
 
Ah, that must be where the confusion set in. And the first few issues of ASM also had like 2 or 3 different stories.
 
JD said:
Ah, that must be where the confusion set in. And the first few issues of ASM also had like 2 or 3 different stories.
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Right. The Fantastic Four story was the second story in the first issue, making it his third story overall.
 
theenglish said:
I'm sorry that you left the movie at that point because the ending was actually pretty good and showed that he was his own hero and not the sidekick. It was kind of the point of the movie. It's on Netflix, you should watch it.
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I have watched all of the film, the rest did have the supposed character growth of him overcoming that extreme and unbelievable and character-damaging belief that the character shouldn't have had earlier. And him turning down the super-duper advanced tech suit and but still getting to keep the super-advanced tech suit which we as viewers know that he will and has to keep and, thus, stay committed to Stark.
 
Anwar said:
Spider-Man not being the only hero to exist in the world in no way compromises his essence.
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Again, how they relate and interact to each other can be good or bad. Peter fighting Captain America and not reacting to that's he's still both at large and widely popular feels at best way too inconsistent while him wanting to join the Avengers when Tony seems to be the only member and Rhodey his only supporter also or more so makes the character seem oblivious.

Anwar said:
It's only part of his character. It's like how the FoX-Men Movies made Nightcrawler uber-religious while missing out entirely on his swashbuckler persona. It's only part of the character being shown.
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Characters and stories will unavoidably change when trying to adapt a lot of story material and, in X-Men's case, a large cast of characters, into a 2-hour or 2-hour-10 minute film. Raimi emphasizing much more Peter's angst over his cockiness was a change but not a real damaging one, especially given that Peter often wasn't that cocky when going against the Green Goblin or, I believe, Dr. Octopus.

JD said:
One of the very first issue of Amazing Spider-Man has him trying to get the Fantastic Four to let him join them
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Because he felt that was a necessary way to support himself and his aunt, not because he wanted the glory of being on the team.
 
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