So what's up with the black badges?

[DigificWriter]

^ Conjecture without evidentiary support isn't worth anything... and this Section 31 stuff has no evidentiary support.

 

[Timo]

I think the bald guy was probably just an ordinary prisoner. He didn't know who Burnham was until the other dude told him, was the one who remarked on the black badges, and was the only one who didn't participate in the fight in the mess hall.

Or then he's the straight guy in the three-player act - the one that allows the other two to push all of Burnham's buttons by playing the cabbagehead who "needs" all these painful things "explained" to him...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jayson1]

^ Conjecture without evidentiary support isn't worth anything... and this Section 31 stuff has no evidentiary support.

Well you got a ship that is fighting a war, that seems willing to overlook Federations rules and values to win the war so if you got a established group in the mythos that operates that way and we know has been around since the Beginning of Starfleet it makes sense that we might have a connection. Black badges and the 31 in the registery number might be possible links. Also we know Section 31 was named dropped in the Kelvin Universe and we also know that Lorca will quote the "Favor the Bold" line and one of the Klingon houses was from DS9 so we know that DS9 references and concepts might be used and not just dismissed.

Jason

 

[Tim Thomason]

(So, how real are these cons? One feigns ignorance at the person of Burnham, but all make statements about how Starfleet ought to be and what Starfleet ought to look like, astute ones at that. They apparently only start talking to Burnham minutes before the abduction, on a supposedly long ride. They are shepherded by a pilot who is dressed in spacewalk gear as if in anticipation of the scrubbing job, and who apparently disconnects her umbilical at the root as far as the computer can tell.

Are they all plants to make Burnham's transition to the ship smoother - that is, rougher so that it feels more real?)

Timo Saloniemi

I think them talking to Burnham at the end of a long journey was just TV convenience, so they could skip over another scene transition. We can maybe assume that they arrived on the ship and slept intermittently for awhile first. Maybe this dark Starfleet sedates their prisoners during transport, and it took some time for that to wear off.

 

[cultcross]

that seems willing to overlook Federations rules and values to win the war

In what way? They're trying to build a new propulsion system which they say in dialogue in episode 3 was already being researched prior to the war. This isn't a bioweapon, Michael's initial 'conjecture' was wrong.

Black badges and the 31 in the registery number might be possible links.

Again, why would a secret clandestine service have a chest logo? Or denote its ships by registry number, for that matter. Or call them 'Discovery'? And the registry rumour has surely been put to bed by the fact the sister ship doing the same experiment has the registry 1030 suggesting a simple advancing numerical system? By the 24th century, Sisko and Bashir had never even heard of an outfit called section 31, and yet we are to believe they're running a sort of parallel Starfleet in the 23rd?

 

[DigificWriter]

Well you got a ship that is fighting a war, that seems willing to overlook Federations rules and values to win the war

Wrong.

Burnham thought that Discovery's mission was developing illegal weapons, but Lorca disabused her of that notion by showing her what was really going on.

There's literally nothing connecting Discovery to Section 31 other than somebody's conjecture that they pulled out of their butt.

 

[rhllot]

In what way? They're trying to build a new propulsion system which they say in dialogue in episode 3 was already being researched prior to the war. This isn't a bioweapon, Michael's initial 'conjecture' was wrong.



Again, why would a secret clandestine service have a chest logo? Or denote its ships by registry number, for that matter. Or call them 'Discovery'? And the registry rumour has surely been put to bed by the fact the sister ship doing the same experiment has the registry 1030 suggesting a simple advancing numerical system? By the 24th century, Sisko and Bashir had never even heard of an outfit called section 31, and yet we are to believe they're running a sort of parallel Starfleet in the 23rd?

section 31 in the 23rd

USS vengeance

into darkness section 31 had many installations and ships, but Kirk did not know of its existence until Marcus told it

 

[Paul Weaver]

NuKirk wore a black tunic in 09

 

[Q2UnME]

When I watched the scene in question, depicting the guard with the black badge, my immediate thought was Federation Marine or some other military type guarding something top-secret. Never got at 'Section 31' vibe.

My two cents...

Q2

 

[Timo]

Hey, they all wore black underneath their other colors in TOS - didn't you see the collars?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[cultcross]

section 31 in the 23rd

USS vengeance

into darkness section 31 had many installations and ships, but Kirk did not know of its existence until Marcus told it

Different timeline, in which the federation is explicitly more concerned with security and warfare, and Marcus has embraced the section 31 ethos, as well as the genetic engineering ethos of the eugenics wars. That's not in Sisko's past - this show is.

 

[Kemaiku]

Lorca stated he was given every dispensation to win the war by any means necessary. Deliberately similar to a line from Sloan in DS9.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ That doesn't automatically mean he's part of Section 31, though.

 

[cultcross]

Lorca stated he was given every dispensation to win the war by any means necessary

"To fight this war how I see fit" isn't quite the same thing as "by any means necessary". And he's referring to selecting personnel Starfleet may not be supportive of, not genocide (which is what Sloan was referring to with his 'ends justify the means' speech)

 

[rhllot]

"To fight this war how I see fit" isn't quite the same thing as "by any means necessary". And he's referring to selecting personnel Starfleet may not be supportive of, not genocide (which is what Sloan was referring to with his 'ends justify the means' speech)

I am sure that if lorca could destroy Qo'nos with biological weapons

 

[cultcross]

I am sure that if lorca could destroy Qo'nos with biological weapons

Well in the nicest possible way, pretty sure isn't canon.

 

[Kemaiku]

"To fight this war how I see fit" isn't quite the same thing as "by any means necessary". And he's referring to selecting personnel Starfleet may not be supportive of, not genocide (which is what Sloan was referring to with his 'ends justify the means' speech)

He strikes me as being entirely behind that kind of thinking so far. He murders someone and kidnaps others as his introduction for Christ sake.

This man would obliterate Kronos if that's what it took. So long as he could lay the blame elsewhere.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

He strikes me as being entirely behind that kind of thinking so far. He murders someone and kidnaps others as his introduction for Christ sake.

This man would obliterate Kronos if that's what it took. So long as he could lay the blame elsewhere.

Who did he murder?

he didn't murder anyone. We don't know anyone was kidnapped.

Rerouting prisoners secretly isn't the same as kidnapping, and everyone was set on their merry way, and even Michael was given a choice.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Didn't they say in DS9 Section 31 was part of the original Federation Charter

Actually, it was Article 14, Section 31 of the Earth Starfleet charter.

Note that very specific phrase: Earth Starfleet. Not Federation Starfleet. Legally speaking, they're different organizations.

 

[KirkusOveractus]

Could they have done the black badges to piss off everyone who thinks they have all the DSC badges from Qmx?