So What Are you Reading?: Generations

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I will note that some actual "true crime" content has started showing up. Including one vignette about (I believe) Dr. Moritz, that reads like a script from Quincy. But so far, those vignettes have not amounted to more than a few paragraphs each, at most, and I like it that way. That way, they help tell the bigger story of what Lee and her allies accomplished, without unduly distracting from it.

Funny, though: the germ of the "Nutshell Studies" appeared several chapters back (and the miniature orchestra and string quartet on which she honed her skills appeared even further back), but she hasn't actually started building a single miniature death scene yet.

 

[Greg Cox]

I read a naval adventure along the lines of Hornblower or Aubrey and Maturin once that annoyed me because the protagonist rose rapidly through the ranks without setting a foot wrong. What would take Hornblower or Aubrey several books full of adversity, he managed in one, because the author thought the guy was just that awesome. I thought, this better not be the first of a series, he has nowhere left to go. I always forget both the title and the author's name so I don't know if there were more.

I've edited books like that, and, yeah, I've usually flagged this as a problem.

I mean, I suppose it's theoretically possible to write a novel where the protagonist never encounters any serious reverses or setbacks, and is more than a match for whatever challenge is thrown at them, but why would you want to?

In general, you want to make things as difficult as possible for your characters -- at least until they finally overcome their trials and tribulations. As Captain Kirk put it:

"I take it the odds are against us and the situation is grim? . . . Sounds like fun."

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

And it took me a while to learn that. In fact, in an appendix, framed as an interview between me and my protagonist, she takes me to task for throwing so much trouble at her.

 

[bdub76]

That would only strike me as a problem if the protagonist doesn't have to work for it. Or doesn't learn anything in the process.

The main never fails. They always get whatever they want, and the book has a happy ending that was predictable from the start. It's not good.

 

[Christopher]

I mean, I suppose it's theoretically possible to write a novel where the protagonist never encounters any serious reverses or setbacks, and is more than a match for whatever challenge is thrown at them, but why would you want to?

This was my problem with Timothy Zahn's second Thrawn trilogy, the one set in the modern Star Wars canon -- and which, like the first trilogy, I lost interest in after the second book. A character like Thrawn, who's super-brilliant and sees every angle and is ten steps ahead of everyone else, makes a very effective antagonist, since he's really hard for the heroes to beat; but he makes a very boring protagonist, because there's never any doubt that he'll succeed and he doesn't have to learn or grow in the course of the story.

 

[bdub76]

This was my problem with Timothy Zahn's second Thrawn trilogy, the one set in the modern Star Wars canon -- and which, like the first trilogy, I lost interest in after the second book. A character like Thrawn, who's super-brilliant and sees every angle and is ten steps ahead of everyone else, makes a very effective antagonist, since he's really hard for the heroes to beat; but he makes a very boring protagonist, because there's never any doubt that he'll succeed and he doesn't have to learn or grow in the course of the story.

Whereas a show like Breaking Bad has Walter failing every time despite being smarter than most, which is far more satisfying to watch because when the protagonist succeeds it's more meaningful. Another film that comes to mind that does this well is Mud.

I recently finished East of Eden and Adam has an incredibly tough time of it, so you build sympathy for the character despite all of their ups and downs. It's a better book because of it.

And I'm about 90% of the way through Carrie, and it's another one, where the main character's successes aren't really success, and it makes her character arc more fulfilling even though it's horrific.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Thrawn . . . makes a very boring protagonist

Thrawn was the protagonist?!?

 

[MLJames1961]

I read a naval adventure along the lines of Hornblower or Aubrey and Maturin once that annoyed me because the protagonist rose rapidly through the ranks without setting a foot wrong. What would take Hornblower or Aubrey several books full of adversity, he managed in one, because the author thought the guy was just that awesome. I thought, this better not be the first of a series, he has nowhere left to go. I always forget both the title and the author's name so I don't know if there were more.

To go off on a tangent for a moment, this was the root of my major beef with the 2009 Trek movie: all these kids, fresh out of the Academy, were put into command positions on a major ship in the line and save the day. I spent more than a decade on active duty in the Air Force; no freshly minted butterbar should be put anywhere near a position of real authority!

Getting back on track, I've been trading off the de Camp/Pratt Enchanter book with other volumes in my library (I want to savor the stories). In the past week, I finished off Kim Newman's Apocalypse Movies: End of the World Cinema, a couple of comic collections crossing Trek with other shows (Star Trek/Planet of the Apes and Star Trek: The Next Generation/Doctor Who), and the omnibus volume of Dark Nights: Metal.

 

[Christopher]

Thrawn was the protagonist?!?

In the newer, "canon" trilogy, yes.

To go off on a tangent for a moment, this was the root of my major beef with the 2009 Trek movie: all these kids, fresh out of the Academy, were put into command positions on a major ship in the line and save the day.

Many of that movie's problems could have been fixed very simply by putting a time jump of several years between the Academy portion and the attack on Vulcan -- ideally four years, so Chekov's age would be correct. That would have been enough time for Kirk to gain experience and get promoted to lieutenant or even lt. commander.

 

[Steve Roby]

To go off on a tangent for a moment, this was the root of my major beef with the 2009 Trek movie: all these kids, fresh out of the Academy, were put into command positions on a major ship in the line and save the day. I spent more than a decade on active duty in the Air Force; no freshly minted butterbar should be put anywhere near a position of real authority!

It's funny that Star Trek has such a long tradition of being weird with military ranks, having ships where virtually everyone is an officer and there are no or almost no visible enlisted personnel, given that people like Gene Roddenberry and Gene Coon had military experience. Hell, even Ron Moore spent a little time in ROTC.

My father was in the Canadian Air Force and retired as a Chief Warrant Officer. (Mom was in the RCAF too, from 1957 or '58 to around 1961, but got out when they got married.) Star Trek could use an occasional CWO or CPO here and there, not least in the Kelvinverse. At least DS9 has O'Brien.

Many of that movie's problems could have been fixed very simply by putting a time jump of several years between the Academy portion and the attack on Vulcan -- ideally four years, so Chekov's age would be correct. That would have been enough time for Kirk to gain experience and get promoted to lieutenant or even lt. commander.

ST09 is a fun, dynamic movie that helped revive the franchise and entertained a lot of newcomers and longtime fans. It is also one nonsensical thing after another and falls apart at the least bit of thought, which evidently was in short supply during the writing.

 

[Christopher]

ST09 is a fun, dynamic movie that helped revive the franchise and entertained a lot of newcomers and longtime fans. It is also one nonsensical thing after another and falls apart at the least bit of thought, which evidently was in short supply during the writing.

I don't think the filmmakers deserve all the blame. I think it's also partly that modern blockbuster-film culture demands a rapid pace without any slowdowns -- which makes no sense to me, since the audience has paid for their tickets and don't have the option to change the channel like they would at home, so I don't understand the fear of losing their interest by relaxing the pace now and then. But the attitude exists regardless, and filmmakers are pressured to conform to it.

On the other hand, ST'09 had already done two major time jumps, from Kirk's birth to his Academy enrollment and then to three years later, so they could've easily enough done a third. But perhaps they felt it was smoother to go directly from the start of Kirk's clash with Spock at the Academy to the crisis that would bring it to a head. I think it was the wrong decision, but I'm not going to assume it was made out of a failure to think, just out of a choice to prioritize different things than I would have.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

With only a vague memory of the original Thrawn Trilogy (I am astonished to find that I still have it; I thought I'd unloaded de-accessioned every non-movie-novelization SW novel I had, other than those written by ADF), I had to look him up on Wookieepedia (I'd even forgotten Thrawn's species and skin and eye colors); now, I understand how he could be a protagonist.

And yes, ST09 was, in terms of story, a house of cards built on a foundation of mined eggshells, but then again, so are a lot of movies made in this century.

Now well into the last hundred pages of 18 Tiny Deaths. Lee has built the first of the "Nutshell Studies," and has begun the Harvard Medical School's Seminars in Homicide Investigation for State Police, providing gourmet dinners for the participants.

At one point, the "Nutshell Studies" are compared to the Thorne Miniature Rooms (I've seen the Art Institute of Chicago's collection every time a visit to Chicago was part of my vacation), and Lee's friendship with Narcissa Thorne is noted.

 

[Steve Roby]

More reading. Sarah Monette's The Bone Key is a series of related short stories about a university archivist who gets unwillingly entangled in a series of horror story situations, with M.R. James and H.P. Lovecraft named as influences. The narrator, Kyle Murchison Booth, is shy and awkward but knowledgeable and more resourceful than he necessarily thinks. Closeted and possibly on the spectrum. There's some good supporting characters, a variety of story types and lengths, and it's overall fairly light reading despite the horror and character work. I'm tempted to investigate some of Monette's other books.

And I'm nearly done Alexis Hall's novel The Affair of the Mysterious Letter, a fantasy/mystery novel. Blend Tanith Lee, China Mieville, Clark Ashton Smith, H.P. Lovecraft, Robert W. Chambers, and a few others and you might get an idea of the kind of old/new weird fiction approach. The main character, Shaharazad Haas, and her companion, John Wyndham, are asked to investigate a blackmail plot against one of Haas's former lovers. If that sounds a bit Holmesian, well, duh, but this isn't set on any world like Earth and Haas is a magician, not a detective. It's much more an episodic fantasy adventure than a conventional mystery novel, though, not to mention that Haas is lesbian or bi and Wyndham is a trans man. Alexis Hall is known for writing a wide variety of novels in different genres with queer characters of all sorts, but this isn't one of his romance novels -- at least not so far, at about 83% read. It's a one-off but there could be series potential. Nice to see someone focus more on Chambers's The King in Yellow than Lovecraft's often used settings and entities for a change. One of Hall's other novels is a Regency/Napoleonic era romance that sounds intriguing. But I have to stop buying so many books. I've had one of these books since 2020 and the other since 2024.

 

[Brendan Moody]

I’m a big Sarah Monette fan. The Angel of the Crows, which is basically Sherlock Holmes in a dark fantasy version of London, is probably the closest in tone to the Booth stories.

I just finished rereading Fool’s Assassin by Robin Hobb, which I enjoyed a lot more this time than when I first read it on publication; having freshly reread the previous books in the setting made the lack of plot in this one less frustrating. Next up is a reread of Stephen King and Peter Straub’s Black House, ahead of the final book in that trilogy coming out next month.

 

[Smiley]

I'm reading The Fifty Year Mission (the first volume). So far, covering the original series, it is reading a lot like Star Trek Memories with less Shatner focus and editorializing. Even for a decades-long fan, I am learning some interesting bits and pieces along the way.

 

[bdub76]

Nice to see someone focus more on Chambers's The King in Yellow than Lovecraft's often used settings and entities for a change. One of Hall's other novels is a Regency/Napoleonic era romance that sounds intriguing. But I have to stop buying so many books. I've had one of these books since 2020 and the other since 2024.

How is the King in Yellow?

It crossed my radar some time ago, but I haven't read it yet.

 

[JD]

Thrawn was the protagonist?!?

It's a prequel series following his rise to power leading up to his appearance in Rebels.

I don't think the filmmakers deserve all the blame. I think it's also partly that modern blockbuster-film culture demands a rapid pace without any slowdowns -- which makes no sense to me, since the audience has paid for their tickets and don't have the option to change the channel like they would at home, so I don't understand the fear of losing their interest by relaxing the pace now and then. But the attitude exists regardless, and filmmakers are pressured to conform to it.

On the other hand, ST'09 had already done two major time jumps, from Kirk's birth to his Academy enrollment and then to three years later, so they could've easily enough done a third. But perhaps they felt it was smoother to go directly from the start of Kirk's clash with Spock at the Academy to the crisis that would bring it to a head. I think it was the wrong decision, but I'm not going to assume it was made out of a failure to think, just out of a choice to prioritize different things than I would have.

I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that the big blockbusters are specifically made with a focus on action and spectacle, with story and character tending to be a secondary concern a lot of the time.

With only a vague memory of the original Thrawn Trilogy (I am astonished to find that I still have it; I thought I'd unloaded de-accessioned every non-movie-novelization SW novel I had, other than those written by ADF), I had to look him up on Wookieepedia (I'd even forgotten Thrawn's species and skin and eye colors); now, I understand how he could be a protagonist.

It sounds like you don't follow the Disney era stuff very closely, because Thrawn's become one of it's major recurring villains. Starting off in the later seasons of Rebels and now in the Ahsoka live action series. Fun Fact: He's one of the very characters where they actually brought back the actor who voiced him in animation to play him live action. Usually when it's either other around, or they're cast in animation as a set up for a later appearance in live action.

 

[Steve Roby]

How is the King in Yellow?

It crossed my radar some time ago, but I haven't read it yet.

Chambers only wrote four short stories involving The King in Yellow, a play that can drive people mad. You can read them all in an hour or two. The Repairer of Reputations is an unreliable narrator story in a dystopian America. The other three are closer to conventional horror or supernatural tales. They're not much like Lovecraft, though he was a fan. But they're worth reading. The King in Yellow hasn't generated as many books and stories by later writers as Lovecraft has, but there are a few novels and anthologies out there. And of course the first season of True Detective was influenced by it.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

It sounds like you don't follow the Disney era stuff very closely, because Thrawn's become one of it's major recurring villains.

Other than seeing the sequel trilogy (I found nothing wrong with the sequel or prequel trilogies), and the other theatrical films, and riding both versions of Star Tours, and Smuggler's Run, at Disneyland (I haven't done Rise of the Resistance; my idea of "immersive" is more along the lines of spending a night in a Colonial House accommodation in Colonial Williamsburg), I haven't been following it at all. The only recent SW novel I've bought, that wasn't a movie novelization, was ADF's from a few years ago (shockingly, only his second).

 

[Steve Roby]

Now reading Beyond the Mountains of Madness, an anthology of stories inspired by Lovecraft's "At the Mountains of Madness." I bought this in 2015, and it was probably shortly after that that I discovered editor Robert M. Price had jumped headfirst into the misogynistic and racist far right. Price was an important player in the Lovecraft world, especially in the 1980s as editor of the zine Crypt of Cthulhu and in the 1990s as editor of a series of Lovecraftian books for Chaosium, the publisher of the Call of Cthulhu role playing game. He seems to have burned a lot of bridges over the last decade or so, though. I haven't come across anything by him in years. Not that I've looked.

These days there's some new spin on Lovecraft and his mythos coming out every other day, but they were few and far between when Chaosium started publishing its books. They tended to have titles like The Hastur Cycle or The Yog-Sothoth Cycle, generally including a Lovecraft story introducing an entity, with earlier stories that might have served as influences on HPL and new stories taking things further. Gradually a lot of other publishers picked up on the interest in this stuff and Chaosium gradually stopped doing new books. This one came from another, smaller publisher.

Anyway, so far this is pretty pedestrian stuff, filling in gaps around HPL's story and, so far, not doing anything surprising. The last twenty years or so have seen a lot of younger writers taking elements of Lovecraft and doing interesting new things with them, while a circle of older writers continue to recycle the same old components in the same old ways (see, for example, any anthology edited by Darrell Schweitzer). This is very much the latter, and I don't really need any more of it after I finish this one.