Woops there goes another rubber tree plant..
Even when I was a kid I couldn't figure out why we were singing that dumb song.
Even when I was a kid I couldn't figure out why we were singing that dumb song.
So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager
- Thread starter Hespen
- Start date
I'd like to give an update.
I do not recommend watching Voyager, I strongly recommend no one watch it. Save yourself the trouble, the show is pretty bad. I've seen all seven seasons and it's just bad. Like I said, Voyager killed Star Trek. It will take years to recover from this mess.
Neelix
After seeing him desperately wanting to hook up with that Klingon woman (season 7) I ended up liking him. It only took 7 seasons for me to like him. Then during homestead he was pretty bad ass, so he grew on me. Like I said it only took seven seasons to finally like Neelix. Hate him for six seasons, kind of like him in season 7.
Commander Chipotle
What an idiot. This has got to be the worst character in sci-fi history.
Commander Chipotle & Seven Romance
I'm not a writer, I have no talent when it comes to writing a story. I NEVER say this, but even I could write a better romance story than this. It just made no sense, at all? WTF? LOL.
Paris
Yawn
Harry Kim
Double Yawn
Torres
She never stopped bitching, why would anyone write a female character that just bitches constantly?
End Game Season 7 Finale
Quite possibly one of the worst finales to a show I've ever seen.
Summary
Voyager killed star trek. It will take years for star trek to recover from this mess.
They should of focused on Janeway, Tuvok, Doctor, Seven, Kes, ECheb. They should of showed Neelix desperately wanting to hook up with alien females (like he did with that klingon woman lol)
Deep Space Nine was vastly superior to Voyager.
After seeing him desperately wanting to hook up with that Klingon woman (season 7) I ended up liking him. It only took 7 seasons for me to like him. Then during homestead he was pretty bad ass, so he grew on me. Like I said it only took seven seasons to finally like Neelix. Hate him for six seasons, kind of like him in season 7.
Commander Chipotle
What an idiot. This has got to be the worst character in sci-fi history.
Commander Chipotle & Seven Romance
I'm not a writer, I have no talent when it comes to writing a story. I NEVER say this, but even I could write a better romance story than this. It just made no sense, at all? WTF? LOL.
Paris
Yawn
Harry Kim
Double Yawn
Torres
She never stopped bitching, why would anyone write a female character that just bitches constantly?
End Game Season 7 Finale
Quite possibly one of the worst finales to a show I've ever seen.
Summary
Voyager killed star trek. It will take years for star trek to recover from this mess.
They should of focused on Janeway, Tuvok, Doctor, Seven, Kes, ECheb. They should of showed Neelix desperately wanting to hook up with alien females (like he did with that klingon woman lol)
Deep Space Nine was vastly superior to Voyager.
I do not recommend watching Voyager, I strongly recommend no one watch it. Save yourself the trouble, the show is pretty bad. I've seen all seven seasons and it's just bad. Like I said, Voyager killed Star Trek. It will take years to recover from this mess.
So uhh.. how'd you like Enterprise?
Most of us wasted 7 years on this show, not 3 weeks.
We expect a proportionate return on our investment.
We expect a proportionate return on our investment.
DAMN, I never thought about it that way.
The fabulousness of this forum is your proportionate return!
Be the proportionate return you want to see in this world.
Be the proportionate return you want to see in this world.
I'm currently researching the show somewhat. My biggest concern is if Enterprise has a proper ending in season 4. I really like how DS9 ended and was hoping enterprise would have something just as epic.
Berman and Braga started rubber stamping their underlings work. One was bored the other was accused of sexually harassing an actress. The Final season was fantastic. Several 3 and four part stories which in of them selves connected and mostly back referenced to earlier episodes of Enterprise as well as events from the 1960s series to bridge then to now. It was geat. They had a final trilogy of episodes that tied everything together into a neat little bow. Then Berman and Braga woke up, waded back in and made another episode that shat on the final season, and what should have been the final episodes that it's quite clear they have never watched because the script they claim was final episode material was actually a story which was rejected in season 2 and had been filed away for later.
What does that matter? Lots of great tv shows had no proper finale, heck they didn't even do tv show finale's in TOS's day afaict. And lots of great tv shows had horrible finales. There's a lot of pressure on a finale, if it doesn't work out it doesn't make what preceded it any less.
TOS if they felt like it, could have made a popper ending during either of the Star Trek animated series finales... But they let it ride instead of cashing out.
Doctor Richard Kimble in the last episode of the Fugitive did lock down the one armed man.
Then weren't children.
TV Producers back then could finish a story if they wanted to.
As far as last lines go...
"If I were human, I believe my response would be 'Go to Hell!'" .... even if Shatner ripped off Peter Pan and had another movie after that, was, in my cold dark heart, a suitable conclusion to classic Star Trek.
Doctor Richard Kimble in the last episode of the Fugitive did lock down the one armed man.
Then weren't children.
TV Producers back then could finish a story if they wanted to.
As far as last lines go...
"If I were human, I believe my response would be 'Go to Hell!'" .... even if Shatner ripped off Peter Pan and had another movie after that, was, in my cold dark heart, a suitable conclusion to classic Star Trek.
DS9 was bland and too frequently dull. It wasted far too much time on preachy whiny Bajorans and Mirror Universe lipstick lesbians. And pulled plot twists out of it's ass, like Sisko praying away a Dominion war fleet and Bashir's awkward retcon into an augment genius.
But if DS9 is your ultimate Trek, you should be watching Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica, not Voyager, Next Gen or Enterprise.
I'd agree DS9 is the best Trek but it shouldn't be held as the standard for Trek casts. It's the only one without a bland void in the main crew. Not a Sulu, Dr. Crusher or Harry Kim in sight.
Voyager is a hugely annoying show for many reasons but The Doctor, Seven of Nine and Kes are all great characters. Replacing one of the few good characters with another good character is one of the most frustrating things in all of Trek.
Voyager is frequently dumb and mediocre but people exaggerate how bad it is. Mainly because it had the potential to be the best series.
Voyager is a hugely annoying show for many reasons but The Doctor, Seven of Nine and Kes are all great characters. Replacing one of the few good characters with another good character is one of the most frustrating things in all of Trek.
Voyager is frequently dumb and mediocre but people exaggerate how bad it is. Mainly because it had the potential to be the best series.
There are no horrible characters on Voyager, but many average characters. Some missed oppertunities on Chakotay, Kim, Kes and Neelix.
My favorites are Janeway, the Holodoc and Seven.
...and any Star Trek Series has it's own Highlights of Characters:
TOS: Kirk, Spock and McCoy
TNG: Picard and Data
DS9: Sisko and Dax
VOY: Janeway, The Doctor and Seven
ENT: Archer and T'Pol.
These are MY favorites of all Star Trek Series.
My favorites are Janeway, the Holodoc and Seven.
...and any Star Trek Series has it's own Highlights of Characters:
TOS: Kirk, Spock and McCoy
TNG: Picard and Data
DS9: Sisko and Dax
VOY: Janeway, The Doctor and Seven
ENT: Archer and T'Pol.
These are MY favorites of all Star Trek Series.
Not really, if they had given the show a bigger premise than "Lost ship" then there'd be more potential. But as it is, the premise was rather constraining.
A ship that's decades away from home with enemies forced to live/work together in a setting where viewers are used to seeing everything run smoothly and get repaired quickly...I think the potential is there for a groundbreaking Trek show if they took more risks early on. But they didn't come anywhere close to reaching the potential of what it could have been (in my opinion, anyway). I still need to watch the later seasons so I can't opine about the show as a whole, but the early seasons -- while they were okay -- didn't do what I hoped/expected they would given the initial setup. I was expecting things to be broken and then repaired with atypical materials, which did happen from time to time -- but as the series progresses, the vessel and the sets should always be changing with new materials, altering the look of the ship/sets in a major way. For the most part, Voyager always looked squeaky clean. I was expecting them to acquire new tools, clothing, etc., then wear the new clothing because their existing uniforms wore out or were ripped/burned on missions. I expected them to perhaps have a rough landing on a planet and be forced to stay there for several episodes hiding or waiting for repairs. I definitely expected more fighting between Federation officers and the Maquis on an ongoing basis -- perhaps to the point that they eventually split up permanently on two ships, then for the remainder of the series we see the journey of these two separate groups. Maybe even have episodes where they must fight each other (on their separate ships) and cause setbacks for each other -- then other episodes where they reluctantly work together. Things like that, and there's so much more that could have been done. More serial drama, more risks. So yes, I saw a lot of potential given the premise.
A ship that isn't really lost since it knows exactly how to get home, which cuts out a plot that would've allowed them to spend time in one area of space and get to flesh out the local aliens much better.
Also, if something is broken it can never be repaired, ever, otherwise the premise is violated (no support, remember?). They can never ever make an allies or trade with anyone because that violates the "No Support" clause too.
Anyone who dies can never ever be replaced, because to get some new crewmembers from any alien worlds they encounter would violate the "No support" clause again. And they can't train replacements either.
So basically, they have no reason to stick around and flesh out their surroundings, they have no reason to do any "visit a planet" type story because that might violate the "No support" plot. They can't take any lingering damage because there'd be no way to fix it, they can't kill off anyone important because there'd be no way around that or to get replacements.
They also can't do anything big and cool like save the Galaxy from some extragalactic invasion because that'd make them "too important" for one small ship (they tried that with "Scorpion" and the 8472 aliens and no one liked it).
That's pretty damn constrained.
And the internal tensions were never going to be that good either because the Maquis weren't set up properly as "the second crew" to conflict with the Fleeters. Even if they were, after 1-2 seasons it wouldn't make any sense for them to still act like enemies unless they were truly disturbed individuals.
I find VOY very irritating as they missed the mark on so many things, including the characters.
The crew accepted their situation too easily, with no major morale or emotional problems being lost and in all likelihood never seeing their families and loved ones again. All the Starfleet-Maquis 'tension' never came to anything and fizzled out after a couple of years. They took to firing at every alien and ship they encountered, rarely making any friends along the way, though despite getting their asses kicked on a regular basis the ship was always pristine, fully functional and they had all the creature comforts.
They had it far too easy, they could have been on a deep space mission in the alpha quadrant for all the peril they faced, as it was always pretty obvious they would make it through--even more so after Borg tech saved the day every week.
The PTB never took any chances or risks, favouring the reset button over any real character development or something that would upset the status quo.
The crew accepted their situation too easily, with no major morale or emotional problems being lost and in all likelihood never seeing their families and loved ones again. All the Starfleet-Maquis 'tension' never came to anything and fizzled out after a couple of years. They took to firing at every alien and ship they encountered, rarely making any friends along the way, though despite getting their asses kicked on a regular basis the ship was always pristine, fully functional and they had all the creature comforts.
They had it far too easy, they could have been on a deep space mission in the alpha quadrant for all the peril they faced, as it was always pretty obvious they would make it through--even more so after Borg tech saved the day every week.
The PTB never took any chances or risks, favouring the reset button over any real character development or something that would upset the status quo.
But this was nothing new, it happened to Kirk and Picard.
Realistically, the tensions wouldn't have lasted more than a season and a half anyways.
Yeah, mistake.
So the ship is easier to maintain than everyone assumed?
The show lacked a plot beyond "Lost in Space". If it had one, then there'd be more room for that stuff.
But they weren't lost.
Neither was the Voyager crew, they knew where they were and exactly where Earth was.
If they WERE truly lost, then there's something to work with because it means they HAVE to explore because they can't just set a course for Earth.
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