So I started watching "Babylon 5" for the first time.
- Thread starter Tribble puncher
- Start date
Oooo...thanks for this...even has the correct order to watch crusade.[/QUOTE]
Actually, from a story perspective the best order for Crusade is...
108-War Zone
111-Ruling From the Tomb
107-The Long Road
109-The Path of Sorrows
113-Appearances and Other Deceits
103-Racing the Night
101-The Needs of Earth
102-The Memory of War
104-Visitors From Down the Street
105-Each Night I Dream of Home
112-The Rules of the Game
110-Patterns of the Soul
106-The Well of Forever
Enjoy!
Actually, from a story perspective the best order for Crusade is...
108-War Zone
111-Ruling From the Tomb
107-The Long Road
109-The Path of Sorrows
113-Appearances and Other Deceits
103-Racing the Night
101-The Needs of Earth
102-The Memory of War
104-Visitors From Down the Street
105-Each Night I Dream of Home
112-The Rules of the Game
110-Patterns of the Soul
106-The Well of Forever
Enjoy!
I make a point of -not- comparing B5 to DS9 as far as the writing goes. B5 is a great example of a show that was (to a point) written from the ground up and executed largely in accordance with that plan.
DS9 was not pre-conceived in such a manner, and while there are some moments where that's a weakness, I think the arcs that run through the series deserve more credit precisely because they weren't planned out ahead of time.
I suppose it's like the difference between watching a film and watching an improv show; you enjoy them for different reasons and comparing the writing isn't really sensible to me.
LotR (Rangers, not Rings) was a bit of a mess to me. The weapons system, while an interesting concept, didn't seem to make much sense on a practical level.
Crusade might have been able to become a good series if it had lasted longer, but I don't think what we got was especially noteworthy. And the music...my god, the music...(shudders) This is probably a rude thing to say, but I'd be curious to see the episodes with new soundtracks by Christopher Franke just to see what that might do for my impression of the show.
DS9 was not pre-conceived in such a manner, and while there are some moments where that's a weakness, I think the arcs that run through the series deserve more credit precisely because they weren't planned out ahead of time.
I suppose it's like the difference between watching a film and watching an improv show; you enjoy them for different reasons and comparing the writing isn't really sensible to me.
LotR (Rangers, not Rings) was a bit of a mess to me. The weapons system, while an interesting concept, didn't seem to make much sense on a practical level.
Crusade might have been able to become a good series if it had lasted longer, but I don't think what we got was especially noteworthy. And the music...my god, the music...(shudders) This is probably a rude thing to say, but I'd be curious to see the episodes with new soundtracks by Christopher Franke just to see what that might do for my impression of the show.
Re: Crusade.
I think to appreciate Crusade more, you should read the books The Shadow Within and The Technomage Trilogy.
Now, saying you need to read four books to enjoy a tv show isn't really a ringing endorsment for the show itself, but those books fill in a LOT of background and make things much better, imo. Especially regarding Galen and his relationship to Gideon.
I didn't even see Crusade when it was on, but after I read those books I had to see it. But that's me. I can honestly say out of 13 episodes, 2 could have been completely removed without much loss, and a further 3 were meh, but if it followed any kind of patern like B5,...
I feel robbed.
I think to appreciate Crusade more, you should read the books The Shadow Within and The Technomage Trilogy.
Now, saying you need to read four books to enjoy a tv show isn't really a ringing endorsment for the show itself, but those books fill in a LOT of background and make things much better, imo. Especially regarding Galen and his relationship to Gideon.
I didn't even see Crusade when it was on, but after I read those books I had to see it. But that's me. I can honestly say out of 13 episodes, 2 could have been completely removed without much loss, and a further 3 were meh, but if it followed any kind of patern like B5,...
I feel robbed.
Crusade is very much I think about the effects of the Shadows-Vorlons and in term of comparisons to the Cold War, I guess you could say it was about securing the WMDs and preventing them from falling into the wrong hands. No coincidence they had both a telepath and a technomage as part of the cast imo.
Definitely robbed, especially if you've read the un-produced Scripts, which, IMHO, seemed like they would be better than any of the episodes that were Produced. And then the little we know of where the Series was going, makes it even more heartbreaking
I heard it was precancled before the first episode aired, and that it had to do extraordinarily well to become uncancelled... Not that anyone told JMS that until after the axe fell.
There are scripts available for unfilmed episodes of Crusade.
One of them has Bester in it.
There are scripts available for unfilmed episodes of Crusade.
One of them has Bester in it.
That's true. The show was shut down months before even a single episode aired. Basically, TNT wanted out of their contract no matter what it would take.
Jan
It wasn't that. TNT had already discovered that the B5 audience only tuned into B5 and not their other programming while conversely, most of their existing audience didn't watch B5.
Before they even shot a frame of footage, it was decided to smother Crusade in the crib so to speak. That's the reason for all the bizarre notes and strange contradictory demands from the network. They made it impossible for JMS to comply so they'd have a contractually valid excuse to pull the plug.
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That sounds like the Don Rickles tribute the other night where every second comedian kept complaining/asking why this show was being aired on Spike.
[Kosh]"Good"[/Kosh]
Watched "The River of Souls" and "Legend of the Rangers" As for "Souls" its wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great, Poor Mans Martin Sheen did a decent Job as the soul hunter, though the whole soul hunter concept I thought was quite weak to begin with, I was glad they were a "one off" during the run of the series. The story again, was okay in the sense that it broached the topic of Immortality sucking, I liked the Idea of your own fantasy driving you mad if stuck in it long enough. While it wasn't a terrible film, I'm sure I will never see it again.
Now, for "Rangers", God I don't even know where to start, this feels like Strazinsky (sp) went all Star Wars Ep. I on B5's ass. So many things that didn't make sense, even G'Kar really couldn't salvage this mess. The Ship was wrong, the Charicters were pretty cliche, I heard this was a pilot for a show, Thank the Great Maker this show never made it past that, with the existing cast and premise, this would have been terrible. there were maybe two charicters that had potential. (Not the captain) And yes as another poster pointed out, the weapons Concept was just stupid, it just seemed an excuse to get a chick in skin tight jeans to throw "Hadoken's!" (street fighter joke) at the screen so nerds would tune in and salivate.
Now, for "Rangers", God I don't even know where to start, this feels like Strazinsky (sp) went all Star Wars Ep. I on B5's ass. So many things that didn't make sense, even G'Kar really couldn't salvage this mess. The Ship was wrong, the Charicters were pretty cliche, I heard this was a pilot for a show, Thank the Great Maker this show never made it past that, with the existing cast and premise, this would have been terrible. there were maybe two charicters that had potential. (Not the captain) And yes as another poster pointed out, the weapons Concept was just stupid, it just seemed an excuse to get a chick in skin tight jeans to throw "Hadoken's!" (street fighter joke) at the screen so nerds would tune in and salivate.
I actually enjoyed Crusade a lot, and I watched it in the order on the DVD (which is the TV airdate order). I wouldn't recommend that, but I did that and still enjoyed the show. I like most of the characters, the premise, and most of the episodes. I'd say that its totally worth watching, especially for B5 fans.
Hell, your description is ten times better than what was shown. I would have be cool if it even remotely resembled Chun Li or... something.
Actually, JMS original concept was really quite cool, but then they came back and said, can't do that, we can ony affored to do it with $14.95 and a coupon, because that's what it looked like they spent on it.
Where do you guys find all these , lost scripts, original concepts JMS had in mind and so on?
I'm reading some posts from 2004 where some one called "Jan" is railing on anyone so contemptuous that they would dare steal intellectual property (the unproduced scripts) from J. Michael Stracvynski.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated/PujuZvPczTE
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated/PujuZvPczTE
Some of it came from posts JMS made at the time the show was on. Most of those are archived at jmsnews.com Several years ago, though, JMS published all of his B5 scripts (and the same company did the scripts by the other writers as well) with introductions and included lots of memos and premises and artwork. Those are out of print now, sadly. The memo about the 'original' arc was in one of those books, a free volume that people would get if they bought the rest of the set. That memo was written between the pilot and the first season starting to shoot. One fifth season script that was never made was called 'Gut Reactions' by Peter David and Bill Mumy. There's a synopsis available that I wrote if you're interested. I think it wasn't used because JMS changed his mind about the Centauri's involvement in the raids.
For Crusade, a few were posted online briefly after the show was cancelled (see Guy's allusion below) and some unmade scripts and premises have been printed in the Crusade script books which are all still available. Not cheap but well worth it (in my opinion). Sadly, two (or is it three) more volumes of the Crusade books (titled Crusade: What the Hell Happened are awaiting JMS getting the introductions written and there's no sign of them in the near future.
(Disclosure: I consult with the books team but don't have any other financial interest in the books.
I'm reading some posts from 2004 where some one called "Jan" is railing on anyone so contemptuous that they would dare steal intellectual property (the unproduced scripts) from J. Michael Stracvynski.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated/PujuZvPczTE
Huh. Surprised to see it was 2004. Might as well have been last night.
Jan
I wish I could get those Script Books as Digital Downloads. The sheer size of those things alone would be a nightmare for me, but I always wanted to read them.
Maybe one day. I'd love to have them all on a Tablet.
Maybe one day. I'd love to have them all on a Tablet.
Movies watched so Far (In order of "like")
In the Beginning
Third Space
River of Souls
A Call to Arms
Legend of The Rangers
Not seen:
Lost Tales
The Gathering (I'm about to watch)
In the Beginning
Third Space
River of Souls
A Call to Arms
Legend of The Rangers
Not seen:
Lost Tales
The Gathering (I'm about to watch)
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