So how much would have quality SFX in TFF helped the movie to you?
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The semi-quote from "The Corbomite Maneuver" reminds me of another attempted catch phrase for McCoy from early episodes of TOS - "I never said that." It pops up in 2-3 episodes, but the only one I can recall offhand is during a Kirk/McCoy exchange in "This Side of Paradise" when Kirk tells McCoy, "You're the one who said you might like him [Spock] if he mellowed out a bit."
^Actually that "I never say that" line is from "Corbomite," pretty much exclusively. Although I revived it in my TOS novel Ex Machina.
LOL
I agree wholeheartedly that I can watch a character film with bad effects easier than a films with bad characters, plot and so and good efx. This is way the prequels were such a dismal failure....although I think the all cgi efects are pretty lousy looking too.
TMP had enough with its story and characters that, combined with its very good effects makes it watchable to me. If the story had been a complete mess like the prequels the quality effects wouldn't have mattered. Likewise if the effects had been awful I don't think I could watch TMP because it just doesn't have enough to carry it as a story alone. But it has enough of both that I can watch it and respect it as a film, despite the fact it isn't great overall.
I think TFF has moments despite the overall narrative being weak and I just wonder if the EFX were good that maybe that'd allow me to tolerate it.
Like I said the bad EFX are like the cherry on the top of the sundae where, combined with its other weaknessess, just makes it something that is not really watchable except once in a great while.
We all have different tastes & sensibilities-
I enjoy bad FX. I appreciate the effort and intent, and even bad FX are funky works of art.
But, you had better have a good story or characters to back it up. "Star Trek V" has likeable actors playing their characters very well. The actors are very comfortable in their roles, great chemistry, and new elements of backstory played well.
The story? Different strokes for different folks--I find "The Way To Eden" immensely amusing and entertaining. How absurd to make a feature with basically the same story!
As alluded to by someone else- the "Star Wars" prequels featured state of the art CG FX, but those films lack warmth and character. I'll personally take "Star Trek V"-my 2nd Favorite Star Trek film with its crazy FX anyday over the " Star Wars" prequels!
I enjoy bad FX. I appreciate the effort and intent, and even bad FX are funky works of art.
But, you had better have a good story or characters to back it up. "Star Trek V" has likeable actors playing their characters very well. The actors are very comfortable in their roles, great chemistry, and new elements of backstory played well.
The story? Different strokes for different folks--I find "The Way To Eden" immensely amusing and entertaining. How absurd to make a feature with basically the same story!
As alluded to by someone else- the "Star Wars" prequels featured state of the art CG FX, but those films lack warmth and character. I'll personally take "Star Trek V"-my 2nd Favorite Star Trek film with its crazy FX anyday over the " Star Wars" prequels!
Holy cow! Although I remembered the space hippies, I'm not very familiar with TOS and didn't notice the resemblance. The parallels are interesting: Spock is sympathetic to the hippy cause, which is in a way predictive of Sybok. The hippies seize control of the Enterprise so they can go to Eden. Scotty even breaks through a wall. TFF's ending is more cinematic but still in keeping with the themes (perhaps Sybok's search for "God" is the ultimate poison fruit?).
The episode ending has a rather stupid line for Spock: "I have no doubt you will find it [Eden] ... or make it yourselves." Given the events of the episode, and the nature of cults in general, it's more likely they'll end up barricaded in a compound, or dead (or, these days, investigated for pedophilia). Kirk's little homily in the movie is better.
I found the banter at the campsite cringe worthy. McCoy seemed very hostile to Spock. I don't recall him being that negative in TOS. (but perhaps I'm mistaken)
I too felt that they were using similar themes with the "talking to myself"... But at least they didn't reach for the "I'm a doctor, not..." line.
I too felt that they were using similar themes with the "talking to myself"... But at least they didn't reach for the "I'm a doctor, not..." line.
^Watch the "Paradise Syndrome" and "The Tholian Web."
--Sran
--Sran
^ This. When I tune in to a scifi movie "three old men on a camping trip, singing Row your Boat" is about the last thing I want to see. Actually, that is true for every kind of movie.
What would better SFX actually have improved? The scenery of Nimbus III, Sh-Ka-Ree and the final fight. A few bits of the movie. The story would still have been a rather week, cliched idea with a forgone conclusion. There had already been multiple "false gods" in Trek at that point and no way in hell were they actually going to have them find God. Also why would every species involved have monotheism as its dominant belief system?
There are still hints of the old Spock not being back completely, and McCoy is still trying to deal with this. The camping with Kirk seems to be an effort to jog Spock back into his pre-death state of mind. He is more there by the end of the film and make to his old self in TUC.
Wel, I don't hate this film like others. It's certainly superior, plotholes and special effects regardless, than First Contact, Insurrection, and the godawful Nemesis.
But even if it had the best special effects money could buy for that time, people would still not raise their opinion of it. It doesn't erase the plot of the film, the deleted rock people, humor that puts some people off, Uhura dancing naked, bad acting moments, Uhura dancing naked, odd plot elements, Uhura dancing naked, and did I mention Uhura already? Well, to paraphrase Kryton on "Red Dwarf", I thought it was such an important point that I'd mention it thrice.
But even if it had the best special effects money could buy for that time, people would still not raise their opinion of it. It doesn't erase the plot of the film, the deleted rock people, humor that puts some people off, Uhura dancing naked, bad acting moments, Uhura dancing naked, odd plot elements, Uhura dancing naked, and did I mention Uhura already? Well, to paraphrase Kryton on "Red Dwarf", I thought it was such an important point that I'd mention it thrice.
I thought McCoy was much nastier in TOS, calling Spock a green-blooded hobgoblin and mocking his ears. In TFF he was just lovably cranky, possibly due to arthritis.
It seemed to me he had mellowed some with age, epsecially toward Spock, but still had some kind of unkind feelings toward Spock for some reason.
You're right, but it's definitely heard in "This Side of Paradise" as well.
That was my college roommate's big argument for them making a STVI back in 1990/91: "I don't want the last-ever scene of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy to be them singing 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat' badly."
That was my college roommate's big argument for them making a STVI back in 1990/91: "I don't want the last-ever scene of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy to be them singing 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat' badly."
Well, in their defense I don't think there's a way to sing "Row, Row, Row Your Boat." that is not cringe worthy.That song makes everything it appears in automatically worse.
You didn't enjoy summer camp, did you?
That was my college roommate's big argument for them making a STVI back in 1990/91: "I don't want the last-ever scene of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy to be them singing 'Row, Row, Row Your Boat' badly."
Amen! I felt exactly the same way! Pretty sure I said the same thing more than once.
(I'd wonder if I was your college roommate, except I was well past college by the time ST V came out!)
Better effects would've helped TFF, but then I'm going through a bit of an epiphany regarding TFF.
I used to have the mainstream reaction to the film, but when I last saw it a few months ago during my franchise run-through, I experienced a sort of awakening to it.
Now, I actually like the film though I recognize its flaws.
And I think the main reason I do like TFF is the relationship of Kirk, Spock and Bones.
If there's ONE THING that TFF did well was in its handling of the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship. I don't think they ever spent as much time together in any of the movies as they did here.
Viewing it with my Kirk, Spock & McCoy goggles, it's easy to forgive a lot...
I used to have the mainstream reaction to the film, but when I last saw it a few months ago during my franchise run-through, I experienced a sort of awakening to it.
Now, I actually like the film though I recognize its flaws.
And I think the main reason I do like TFF is the relationship of Kirk, Spock and Bones.
If there's ONE THING that TFF did well was in its handling of the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship. I don't think they ever spent as much time together in any of the movies as they did here.
Viewing it with my Kirk, Spock & McCoy goggles, it's easy to forgive a lot...
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