Size Of The New Enterprise (large images)

[Kpnuts]

Since it appears most likely that there will be a new director for the next film.

Since when?

Everything we've heard leads us to believe the sequel will be run by the same guys, including Abrams as director.

 

[dougkeenan]

In fact, we should probably forget meters and feet and just measure everything in "Chris Pines."

Good idea! And 1/100th of a "Chris Pine" is a "mole."

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I think scaling by the shuttlebay is really the best bet.

Actually, I think scaling by the bridge windows is better. We know that to be a basically deck-high, floor to cieling viewscreen, so if you take the bridge windows to be, say, two meters or so, you have a fixed reference to determine the rest of the ship.

The shuttlebay scene is tricky because of perspective, and also because the size of the shuttles is not entirely known.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I wonder if there is some hesitation from Abrams & Co. on nailing down an actual size, since there's a history within Trek of directors having their own interpretation of the scale of the ship (slight or extreme). Since it appears most likely that there will be a new director for the next film.

Again, I doubt it. The team seemed to have a fairly solid idea once it came time to detail it.

 

[Praetor]

I think scaling by the shuttlebay is really the best bet.

Actually, I think scaling by the bridge windows is better. We know that to be a basically deck-high, floor to cieling viewscreen, so if you take the bridge windows to be, say, two meters or so, you have a fixed reference to determine the rest of the ship.

The shuttlebay scene is tricky because of perspective, and also because the size of the shuttles is not entirely known.

You may be right. I thought we had a good idea of the shuttle size, though...

 

[darkwing_duck1]

I think scaling by the shuttlebay is really the best bet.

Actually, I think scaling by the bridge windows is better. We know that to be a basically deck-high, floor to cieling viewscreen, so if you take the bridge windows to be, say, two meters or so, you have a fixed reference to determine the rest of the ship.

The shuttlebay scene is tricky because of perspective, and also because the size of the shuttles is not entirely known.

I think scaling by the shuttlebay is really the best bet.

Actually, I think scaling by the bridge windows is better. We know that to be a basically deck-high, floor to cieling viewscreen, so if you take the bridge windows to be, say, two meters or so, you have a fixed reference to determine the rest of the ship.

The shuttlebay scene is tricky because of perspective, and also because the size of the shuttles is not entirely known.

You may be right. I thought we had a good idea of the shuttle size, though...

We get a good look at the shuttles in the Academy Hangar scene where we can clearly see the size of the door to get into them vs the size of a standard person.

Based on that, the shuttles are between 3 and 4m tall ground to top of fuselage. Based on that we can scale the shuttlebay as someone did way WAY back in the thread.

That scaling supported the "big ship" side of the arguement.

 

[Praetor]

Oy, we really are moving in circles.

 

[dougkeenan]

How big are the circles?

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Oy, we really are moving in circles.

Only because some people won't accept the best evidence we have: the shuttlebay.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Oy, we really are moving in circles.

Only because some people won't accept the best evidence we have: the shuttlebay.

Oh, I'm willing to accept it. Yes, I would prefer the smaller sizes. But I think the longer we look at it, there is a general movement toward the larger figures. There is a lot of understandable resistance to the larger size, because it's so different from the Original Universe lineage. While there are explanations, they aren't satisfying to everyone.

Now if we had a solid measurement of the shuttles and the viewscreen window, and the resulting sizes didn't mesh, well then our heads would explode.

 

[Praetor]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

Here we go:

Maybe this will help.

So, based on Professor Moriarty's calculations it's either:

1) 486.77 meters
2) 648.92 meters
3) 811.38 meters

Of course it doesn't have to be an even number, either. If the hanger doors are, say, 45 feet, then we get 730 meters. And of course, that diagram isn't a perfect representation either.

And of course the various stated sizes are:

1) 600 meters
2) 760 meters
3) 900 meters

I lean towards ~700 meters myself, even if the actual physical details of the ship cosmetically indicate otherwise. I'd prefer smaller, but it's definitely bigger, and I don't think it's totally implausible to interpolate the hows and whys, as these 30 pages have shown.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Oy, we really are moving in circles.

Only because some people won't accept the best evidence we have: the shuttlebay.

It's only evidence if nuTrek humans are the same size as classic Trek humans. What if they're much smaller? What if they're hobbits?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

We get a good look at the shuttles in the Academy Hangar scene where we can clearly see the size of the door to get into them vs the size of a standard person.

Right, but we didn't get that good a luck at the size of the door with respect to the shuttle or the size of the shuttle with respect to the people inside it. We got closeups of the door, closeups of people next to the door, and closeups of people inside the shuttle, but this is insufficient to make an actual judgment of size.

On the other hand we have perfectly good images of people next to the view-screen, and we can tell from the set design and from images of the bridge how big that window is. That's a relatively stable measuring stick, all you have to do is take that window and count the number of them it would take to span the length of the ship.

Based on that, the shuttles are between 3 and 4m tall ground to top of fuselage.

Absurd; at four meters in height you're proposing a shuttlecraft the size of a U-Haul truck. Nothing in the visual suggests it's anywhere NEAR that size, in fact I'd be shocked if its ground clearance--including landing struts made it to a full 3 meters, considering the interior has a head clearance of a handful of centimeters.

But again, this is why the shuttles don't work as a reference. Since their size is ambiguous, it's difficult to determine distances and perspective. Better off taking a known reference that we've seen up close, with known proportions and no perspective issues.

 

[Praetor]

We need orthos and floorplans, dammit.

 

[Kpnuts]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

Here we go:

Maybe this will help.

So, based on Professor Moriarty's calculations it's either:

1) 486.77 meters
2) 648.92 meters
3) 811.38 meters

Of course it doesn't have to be an even number, either. If the hanger doors are, say, 45 feet, then we get 730 meters. And of course, that diagram isn't a perfect representation either.

And of course the various stated sizes are:

1) 600 meters
2) 760 meters
3) 900 meters

I lean towards ~700 meters myself, even if the actual physical details of the ship cosmetically indicate otherwise. I'd prefer smaller, but it's definitely bigger, and I don't think it's totally implausible to interpolate the hows and whys, as these 30 pages have shown.

Or,

The viewscreen is about 3 pixels in height on that diagram, and let's assume the viewscreen is 10 feet tall, which makes the ship 2306 feet = 702 metres, which is about the same as the official ILM estimate.

Then again, with these types of calculations, the slightest margin of error and the whole thing changes, for instance, if the viewscreen represents:

2 pixels, the length of the ship = 1km
3 pixels, the length of the ship = 702 metres
4 pixels, the length of the ship = 527 metres

And that's assuming the viewscreen is 10 feet tall. There's too much margin for error, but anyone who thinks it's less than 500-600 metres long needs a reality check. Just looking at the ship under construction pic will tell you it's closer to 1km, then 500metres.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Now if we had a solid measurement of the shuttles and the viewscreen window, and the resulting sizes didn't mesh, well then our heads would explode.

I've been working on this one for a while. So far, I've got a ship with about 42 decks (based on the viewscreen window being one deck and assuming some decks of slightly difference clearances). At this scale, and assuming a 2.6 - 3 meter height for the shuttles, you have a two-tiered shuttle-bay with each shelf having a clearance of about 6 meters, for a total bay height of about 14 meters.

Visually, this works, because it means each "shelf" would be about the height of an aircraft carrier's hangar; more than enough space if they turn off the gravity for launch and landings.

You can fudge this a bit depending on the deck heights; at a 3 meter deck height this gives me a ship of about 730 meters long. It doesn't get down to the 600 meter range unless deck heights are down to 2.5 or so meters. Getting it down to TOS scale would require reducing the entire ship to a stack of jeffries tubes.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

We get a good look at the shuttles in the Academy Hangar scene where we can clearly see the size of the door to get into them vs the size of a standard person.

Right, but we didn't get that good a luck at the size of the door with respect to the shuttle or the size of the shuttle with respect to the people inside it.

Actually, we did. look in the wide shots, you can see one or more open shuttle doors showing the shuttle, not just the door.

We got closeups of the door, closeups of people next to the door, and closeups of people inside the shuttle, but this is insufficient to make an actual judgment of size.

We have the wide shots to get the shuttle compared to the door, and the closeups to compare the door to people.

On the other hand we have perfectly good images of people next to the view-screen, and we can tell from the set design and from images of the bridge how big that window is. That's a relatively stable measuring stick, all you have to do is take that window and count the number of them it would take to span the length of the ship.

Except that we have a considerable scale change mid production.

If you scale by the window or the airlock, then the shuttlebay and Engineering are too big to fit in that Engineering hull.

Based on that, the shuttles are between 3 and 4m tall ground to top of fuselage.

Absurd; at four meters in height you're proposing a shuttlecraft the size of a U-Haul truck. Nothing in the visual suggests it's anywhere NEAR that size, in fact I'd be shocked if its ground clearance--including landing struts made it to a full 3 meters, considering the interior has a head clearance of a handful of centimeters.

I lean towards a little over 3m myself. It sure as hell isn't the dinky little 7 man shuttle from TOS Prime. It carries at LEAST 15-20 people.

But again, this is why the shuttles don't work as a reference. Since their size is ambiguous, it's difficult to determine distances and perspective.

No it's not.

Better off taking a known reference that we've seen up close, with known proportions and no perspective issues.

Except that yeilds a number that doesn't fit with other evidence.

 

[Kpnuts]

The shuttle is AT LEAST 3 metres tall newtype

 

[dougkeenan]

I lean towards a little over 3m myself. It sure as hell isn't the dinky little 7 man shuttle from TOS Prime. It carries at LEAST 15-20 people.

Looks like 24 not counting flight crew. Four rows, six seats.

 

[miraclefan]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

Here we go:

Maybe this will help.

So, based on Professor Moriarty's calculations it's either:

1) 486.77 meters
2) 648.92 meters
3) 811.38 meters

Of course it doesn't have to be an even number, either. If the hanger doors are, say, 45 feet, then we get 730 meters. And of course, that diagram isn't a perfect representation either.

And of course the various stated sizes are:

1) 600 meters
2) 760 meters
3) 900 meters

I lean towards ~700 meters myself, even if the actual physical details of the ship cosmetically indicate otherwise. I'd prefer smaller, but it's definitely bigger, and I don't think it's totally implausible to interpolate the hows and whys, as these 30 pages have shown.

OY! I'm going to need to take an ADVIL! I swear my heads going to BLOW! Just so everyone knows I like the fact this ship IS indeed BIGGER, but there is a part of me that thinks it's just TOOO BIIIIIGGGG!