Size Of The New Enterprise (large images)

[miraclefan]

As a mental exercise, I pretended for a few minutes that I have no idea how big the Enteprises are, and tried to scale the ships by the details on them for best "internal consistency." I came up with this:

The nu's hangar looks pitiably tiny scaling it mostly by the saucer.

Again Nice work Prae! I have to say, looking at the docking ports on both the refit & NU-E make the argument about the NU-E being closer to scale with the refit all the more likely. However, the small shuttlebay and the MASSIVE interiors inside said ''bay'' throws that idea out the window!

 

[Praetor]

Thanks, miraclefan! And yeah, I think there's almost an irreconcilable Brady Paradox here. If you scale up the shuttlebay to be as big as it appears to be, the saucer details and docking ports go out of whack.

I might try fudging it a bit and trying to make the nu's shuttlebay about the same size as the TOS one's and see how it all looks. It might work okay.

 

[Peter the Younger]

As a mental exercise, I pretended for a few minutes that I have no idea how big the Enteprises are, and tried to scale the ships by the details on them for best "internal consistency." I came up with this:

The nu's hangar looks pitiably tiny scaling it mostly by the saucer.

Again Nice work Prae! I have to say, looking at the docking ports on both the refit & NU-E make the argument about the NU-E being closer to scale with the refit all the more likely. However, the small shuttlebay and the MASSIVE interiors inside said ''bay'' throws that idea out the window!

Be careful, you may get fired for making this graphic!

To me, this makes it patently obvious the model was scaled up after it's design was completed. Although I have to admit, the old scale would make the shuttlebay about the size of a two-car garage.

That whole "scale up the Original Universe ships" idea is looking better every day...

 

[miraclefan]

Thanks, miraclefan! And yeah, I think there's almost an irreconcilable Brady Paradox here. If you scale up the shuttlebay to be as big as it appears to be, the saucer details and docking ports go out of whack.

I might try fudging it a bit and trying to make the nu's shuttlebay about the same size as the TOS one's and see how it all looks. It might work okay.

No prob! I see talent when it's there, see if you can adjust the shuttlebay to look about the size of TOS one and see how that looks.

 

[Praetor]

Be careful, you may get fired for making this graphic!

To me, this makes it patently obvious the model was scaled up after it's design was completed. Although I have to admit, the old scale would make the shuttlebay about the size of a two-car garage.

That whole "scale up the Original Universe ships" idea is looking better every day...

I have to agree, on both counts. The trouble, of course, is not knowing for certain how big the nuEnterprise is actually supposed to be.

No prob! I see talent when it's there, see if you can adjust the shuttlebay to look about the size of TOS one and see how that looks.

Ask and ye shall receive:

I think I may still have the nu a tiny bit too small in comparison, but it's really not that bad. Actually, the airlock size seems to work a bit better here than it did in the earlier one.

So this basically puts us in a Excelsior-relative size range, then, as someone pointed out pages ago.

For comparison:

 

[Silversmok3]

Here's the problem guys-theres no standard of measurement between those ships that can be used.

That above schematic is flawed because the NuE's shuttlebay now becomes Hummer sized.

Assuming the shuttlebay doors are the same scale,the old ships become microships-or the NuE is way more than 700 meters.


IMO,this kind of stalemate is expected when comparing two fictional ships from two different universes from two different movie genres and separated by 20 odd years of special effects technology.

I'd just be happy the effects guys picked a standard measurement that made sense,instead of an official version of 'who knows?' that creates a never ending casualty loop of fans pulling figures outta thin air....

 

[darkwing_duck1]

FWIW.

I take the SFX shot of the BOP hovering over the whaling ship over the matte painting anyday.

Now, how does the shots of the crew against the "real" BOP on Vulcan compare? Any either way, the interior showed a pretty large ship. It had a large cargo area (in a Klingon Warship!) to hold the two whales.

Commercial whalers are pretty big ships. A "chaser" (one that does NOT process it's catch itself) runs ~60m. A "factory ship" would run much bigger than that, since it has to be able to pull the whale onboard, dress it, and store the proceeds.

Let's assume the ship in the picture is a "chaser", however. At ~60m, she should be half the length of the BoP (commonly accepted length ~110m). In that image, the whaling ship (if a chaser) is underscaled by at least 50%.

For additional reference, an adult humpback averages 12-16m in length.

Here's a chart:

 

[Silversmok3]

Dagumnit Praetor you post to fast.Just FYI I don't mean the schematic directly above my previous post,but the one before it.

 

[Kpnuts]

I would estimate that it is at least double the length of the original 1701.

Watch the engineering section, or the shuttlebay, or the ship under construction shots...

It's massive, and comparing saucers/shuttlebays/windows is pointless, because they aren't comparable.

 

[miraclefan]

No prob! I see talent when it's there, see if you can adjust the shuttlebay to look about the size of TOS one and see how that looks.

Ask and ye shall receive:

I think I may still have the nu a tiny bit too small in comparison, but it's really not that bad. Actually, the airlock size seems to work a bit better here than it did in the earlier one.

So this basically puts us in a Excelsior-relative size range, then, as someone pointed out pages ago.

For comparison:

Hmmm. Maybe I should have said make the shuttlebay ''TALLER'' like TOS E.

 

[Guartho]

Dear Lord! Why do I a feeling this ''idea'' has been used to explain size problems of various series & movies in ''real'' conversations?

Not for me. I totally made that up just for you.

 

[ALF]

Re: Size Of The New Enterprise

I guess that makes sense if you need to fit some 90 shuttlecraft and a beer brewery inside.

Thanks for this.

 

[MvRojo]

Has it been discussed at about how the Enterprise is hit with a Narada torpedo, causing Sickbay to blow up and killing the Enterprise's doctor? When Spock contacts Sickbay, McCoy says the doctor was killed on DECK SIX, even though the ship was struck on the lower neck. Does this make sense to anyone?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's massive, and comparing saucers/shuttlebays/windows is pointless, because they aren't comparable.

Exactly so.

There is no standard size for a window, or an airlock.

The folks who made the movie say it's six or seven hundred meters long, so for all practical purposes it is.

 

[ATimson]

Has it been discussed at about how the Enterprise is hit with a Narada torpedo, causing Sickbay to blow up and killing the Enterprise's doctor? When Spock contacts Sickbay, McCoy says the doctor was killed on DECK SIX, even though the ship was struck on the lower neck. Does this make sense to anyone?

The doctor caught a sudden case of Exploding Console Syndrome.

 

[Guartho]

Has it been discussed at about how the Enterprise is hit with a Narada torpedo, causing Sickbay to blow up and killing the Enterprise's doctor? When Spock contacts Sickbay, McCoy says the doctor was killed on DECK SIX, even though the ship was struck on the lower neck. Does this make sense to anyone?

Ummm... Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Thanks to this damn thread I can’t look at a picture of the new Enterprise without trying to gauge its size. Thanks a lot, people.

I took a look at the awesome over-Kirk’s-shoulder shot on the trailers (the Riverside shipyard where they’re building the Enterprise), and noticed two things:

Right side of the pic is a large crane getting ready to ‘slot’ a slice of the saucer edge into place – it’s about least four decks thick.

In the same shot, on the truss upper middle of the screen (under the saucer) there is a man walking along it. He’s the right size for a 300-metre Enterprise and much, much, much bigger than the ants on the saucer in the first teaser. You could always say he’s a 20 meter tall alien or something ;-)

The biggest gripe fans have with a 700+ meter sized Enterprise is the windows on the saucer rim. In the ancient Franz Joseph blueprints the window rows belonged to observation lounges, rec rooms and mess halls. Because the same pattern is used on the bigger ship some fans cry murder. But what if each big window is now just a floor-to-ceiling wall window in a large observation chamber? And there are rows of these rooms? Great, now I’m trying to explain away all this stuff I usually laugh at others for obsessing over :-)

Off-topic a bit: IMO the giant saucer in the wreckage (that’s bigger than Enterprise) is from a Kelvin-type ship (even though I only saw the film once I don’t think we saw another Kelvin in the fleet). I say that because Kelvin supposedly had a crew of 800, the saucer would have to be huge to fit them all in (oversize bridge window notwithstanding). Thus i think the Ent/Kelvin comparison pics are "all wrong". In the original concept art for the scene, the saucer belonged to an NX-class ship (as in, the Enterprise from Enterprise).

I remember laughing at people who listed “Deck 29” as one of the reasons they hated Star Trek Nemesis. I bet those people loved this film! This Enteprise might actually have 75 decks, numbered from bottom up (and why? Because mistakes are “canon” too! Chew on that!)

 

[ATimson]

I remember laughing at people who listed “Deck 29” as one of the reasons they hated Star Trek Nemesis. I bet those people loved this film!

To be fair, "deck 29" was a change from earlier movies. This new ship is, well, a new ship.

 

[EJD1984]

Right side of the pic is a large crane getting ready to ‘slot’ a slice of the saucer edge into place – it’s about least four decks thick.

I had thought that "slot" section was being lifted by the crane as well, but if you look(zoom) carefully there is actually cables attached to the four corners lifting it up.

Even though there appears to be 3-4 decks in that section, even with a two-deck saucer rim, that section is deep enough into the saucer thickness to accommodate the additional decks.

Though to me, it just appears to be some large mechanical subsystem being installed.

In the same shot, on the truss upper middle of the screen (under the saucer) there is a man walking along it. He’s the right size for a 300-metre Enterprise and much, much, much bigger than the ants on the saucer in the first teaser.

His relative size does support the smaller scale ship, 300-400ish meters.

This all supports the strong theory that there were some mid-course changes in the production, and the scaling/size of the ship still isn't finalized.

Leads me to think Abrams went for an artist-license-impressionistic style during the production (and may be a final fall back excuse).
*Even with the "supersized' 700m theory, there doesn't seem to be enough room on the starboard side of the bridge to accommodate the corridors seen on screen.
(Which I could go onto a long rant about that kind of easy access to such a sensitive operational area of the ship)

I can see the ship/sets changing somewhat in the next movie as a finalization and correction.

 

[SonicRanger]

^^

That's Keenser.