Siskos prejudice?

[Bad Thoughts]

I hope that the writers appreciate that the actors were not protective of their characters. Of course, Brooks preferred the approach in which scenes played out as a battle of ideas and the strongest emotions were on display. But all those extreme things the characters did--nearly clobbering Molly, disappearing several thousand people, participating in an assasination--would have been met with objections from the other casts. The only Visitor not wanting to be linked romantically to Dukat stands as a moment of resistance, and that came after many episodes where Kira appeared to be racist, aggressive, and angry.

 

[TheSeeker]

Probably because you saw these vapid losers' comments. Sorry... you trying to teach me a lesson in manners will never work.

This is not okay. You can disagree all you want, but calling fellow members "vapid losers" is pretty much the text book definition of flaming.

Just in case it's not clear, you have been issued an infraction for flaming. Comments to PM.

 

[Michael]

to be fair to laughing dragon, he is far from the first person to draw comparisons between the depiction of the Ferengi and anti-semitic streotypes and (possibly) being uncomfortable with it, even if unintentional and they grew past those with time and mostly good storytelling.

Oh, I’m aware of the fact that the Ferengi can be read as an unfortunate antisemitic stereotype. That doesn’t make them a stand-in for actual Jews in Star Trek, though, which is the comparison that Laughing Dragon’s comments seemed to invite. Ferengi might remind the viewer of antisemitic Jewish stereotypes, but they are actually nothing like real Jews. It might be a small distinction, but I think it’s an important one.

So Sisko trying to provoke Nog by questioning whether Ferengi custom (and specifically their widespread propensity for the pursuit of profit) is not in direct contradiction of him wanting to join Starfleet, is most definitely not the same as a hypothetical situation where Nog would be a Jewish person and Sisko would utter a harmful antisemitic narrative like Jews being greedy. At least that’s how feel about it.

It literally is. it can be/become institutional or systemic, but it is not required.

You know, I had to think about that for a moment, but I have to agree. This can be seen as a racist comment, even if just made to provoke Nog into speaking the truth. And you are of course correct: In that situation Sisko does actually wield some systemic power over Nog. Thanks for pointing that out.

Still, I think what irks me about this comparison, and why I called it out, is that I believe it’s problematic to put this on the same level (or anywhere near) some of the most horrendous real world examples of racism and antisemitism. I agree with you that both start on a personal level, but what makes them so dangerous and insidious is when they become institutionalized by law or culture. Which is why I think it’s a mistake to say what Sisko is doing in that scene is comparable to real world racism and antisemitism.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

You know, I had to think about that for a moment, but I have to agree. This can be seen as a racist comment, even if just made to provoke Nog into speaking the truth. And you are of course correct: In that situation Sisko does actually wield some systemic power over Nog. Thanks for pointing that out.

Still, I think what irks me about this comparison, and why I called it out, is that I believe it’s problematic to put this on the same level (or anywhere near) some of the most horrendous real world examples of racism and antisemitism. I agree with you that both start on a personal level, but what makes them so dangerous and insidious is when they become institutionalized by law or culture. Which is why I think it’s a mistake to say what Sisko is doing in that scene is comparable to real world racism and antisemitism.

The entire episode is driven by uncomfortable cross-cultural exchanges. First, I don't think it's correct to say systemic structures are at play given that Nog is clearly a foreign national, a citizen of one of the quadrant's superpowers, trying to gain entry to another's most vital institutions, one tasked with security and safety. More importantly, the story probes questions about how individuals assimilate. Nog presents himself to Sisko according to a bunch of Ferengi assumptions. Someone trying to pay (bribe might be too strong) isn’t a good indication that they understand how the organization works, let along the culture attached thereto. Would Nog conduct himself within Starfleet according to Ferengi customs? Wouldn't that be akin to a Russian, who had been part of the Young Army, wanting to join the Military Academy? There is a huge difference between an American teenager and a Russian teenager already in how they conceptualize leadership and hierarchy. Such individual could be part of the Army for decades, something bound to have institutional reverberations. Sisko actually addresses Nog's inquiry in Ferengi terms. Where is the profit? He challenges Nog to show his beliefs are compatible. (The surprise is that Nog will abandoned those values--at least when he reaches contemporary Earth.)

 

[Laughing Dragon]

Deleted post.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What's comments to pm mean?

It means if you wish to talk about the ruling, you should PM the mod involved and not discuss it here. (this thread)

 

[Laughing Dragon]

It means if you wish to talk about the ruling, you should PM the mod involved and not discuss it here. (this thread)

Well, ok, then. I will erase the post and PM the mod.