That's a new complaint by me. What's wrong with Trill: Unjoined?
Why do you hate Ezri fans so?
Err... who's been here saying that the loss of Sisko was a disgrace?
Should they bring back Janeway?
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
- Status
That's a new complaint by me. What's wrong with Trill: Unjoined?
Why do you hate Ezri fans so?
Err... who's been here saying that the loss of Sisko was a disgrace?
But how could you read the DS9 relaunch books when it's clearly not DS9?? By your standards it can't be since there are missing original characters, right???
Why, that's "false advertising"!!
Depends on the tone of the funeral. I've attended two funerals that were hilarious - people cracking jokes and telling amazing stories. People channeling their grief into a celebration of the person's life.
No it wasn't. They offered her what was essentially a paycut for Season Seven, while everyone else got raises and new trailers. So her agent advised her to walk... straight into a successful new comedy series, "Becker".
I'm sure I remember reading an interview with Agatha Christie where she spoke about how difficult it was killing off Hercule Poirot in "Curtain!" It wasn't a "lack of imagination". It was a conscious decision to confront the issue of death. And she is just one example. You can sit there and call such a plot choice to be "lack of imagination", but most authors who've done it - kill off a main character - will disagree with you.
How did Brit handle "Andor: Paradigm", which features a tiny cameo by Nog, but every other character is non-canonical?
Last edited:
Darned straight. And fortunately Dax is a character for whom death can lead immediately to a new/old character, Time Lord-style.
It's DS9, it doesn't count.
And that shows how strong TrekLit is these days... That never occurred to me at the time I read it, and didn't realize until you mentioned it right now. The new characters that have been added to the various series feel just as part of the crews as those that originated on the show.
This holds true to the additions to Voyager as well. Kirsten Beyer has hit a homerun with Voyager so far and I can't wait to read what she has for us next year.
I have to agree with you guys here. There have actually been times where I've had trouble remembering if something happened in one of the books or an episode of one of the shows.
I respectfully disagree. It just shows how plugged into TrekLit you are. If a new reader picked up the DS9 novel or the VOY one, they would most likely be disappointed to find that none of the characters they see on screen are there. I'd think that PB would be interested in expanding their readership rather than narrowing it by getting so far afield from the onscreen canon. That is, if their goal is to keep selling more books.
I respectfully disagree. It just shows how plugged into TrekLit you are. If a new reader picked up the DS9 novel or the VOY one, they would most likely be disappointed to find that none of the characters they see on screen are there. I'd think that PB would be interested in expanding their readership rather than narrowing it by getting so far afield from the onscreen canon. That is, if their goal is to keep selling more books.
Have to disagree with you on that point, AuntKate. I don't think tha tie-in fiction necessarily means tying into specific characters, but rather the "universe" or franchise itself.
I disagree about the books not being new reader-friendly, but even so,readers today AFAIK (from personal experience and that of many others like my friends, colleagues, etc.)check up on books before they read them - whether on info sites (Wikipedia, Memory Alpha/Beta), Review sites (Amazon) and even boards like TrekBBS.
I don't think that Trek novels today miss out on new readers because of continuity and going beyond the established characters / series / settings. Also, take a look at other sci-fi and Fantasy franchises - even tie-in like Star Wars: there are a LOT of books featuring "canon" characters alongside those not seen on screen (like the Old Republic novels, Fate of the Jedi sereis etc).
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
The book's plot is obviously better, more dinamic, since Janeway died.
Of course, there are some viewers who got attached to the character - so much so that Janeway's absence greatly decreases the quality of the books.
Well, if the pattern holds (considering the circumstances of her 'death') - and I would be surprised if it won't - there will be a few more Voyager books without Janeway and then the characer will be resurrected (at least, that was the intention when 'Before dishonor' was written).
In my opinion, this is not desirable - as proved by comics, it creates a stagnant universe, which, except for nostalgy value, is not worth wasting one's time with.
Of course, there are some viewers who got attached to the character - so much so that Janeway's absence greatly decreases the quality of the books.
Well, if the pattern holds (considering the circumstances of her 'death') - and I would be surprised if it won't - there will be a few more Voyager books without Janeway and then the characer will be resurrected (at least, that was the intention when 'Before dishonor' was written).
In my opinion, this is not desirable - as proved by comics, it creates a stagnant universe, which, except for nostalgy value, is not worth wasting one's time with.
I respectfully disagree. It just shows how plugged into TrekLit you are. If a new reader picked up the DS9 novel or the VOY one, they would most likely be disappointed to find that none of the characters they see on screen are there. I'd think that PB would be interested in expanding their readership rather than narrowing it by getting so far afield from the onscreen canon. That is, if their goal is to keep selling more books.
All of them are there. It's been pointed out before that differences in crew in the novel lines are all due to events that happened in "on screen canon", with the exception of Janeway & Tuvok, so there's no reason for those people to be disappointed at not seeing them in the novels, even if they didn't appear at all (which is not the case). It has nothing to do with PBs decisions. In fact they have ALL appeared at one point or another in the novels, in post-finale stories (except Kes, I believe.)
To use JD's list from upthread:
Voyager
Screen: Chakotay, Seven, Tom, B'Elanna, Harry, Miral, Reg, The Doctor, Vorik, Barclay
Missing: Janeway (dead), Neelix (stayed in the DQ), Kes ("character assassinated/annihilated"
), Tuvok (on Titan)DS9:
Screen: Kira, Dax, Bashir, Nog, Jake, Quark, Kasidy, Sisko
Missing: O'Brien (teaching on Earth), Odo (joined Great Link), Rom (became Grand Nagus), Worf (serving on the Enterprise)
TNG:
Screen: Picard, Worf, Crusher, La Forge
Missing: Riker, Troi (on Titan), Data (dead)
PB just took what was given to them by "on screen canon" and made the best of it. Exceedingly well, in fact.
EDIT: Actually, I'd go so far as to say that changes to the crew whereby a transfer/promotion is made resulting in that character appearing in another series of books may even encourage readers to check out the other lines and stick with them.
Last edited:
What do you mean when referring to the pattern? Are you talking about comic books or Star Trek (because I don't remember similar things happening in Trek novels AFAIK)?
Also, what do you mean when referring to the intention behind BD? Other than a *possible* back-door (i.e. Q), I wasn't aware of any intention to bring Janeway back...
Apparently (from what others have said around here) even the BacQ Door was a last-minute directive from Paramount...I don't believe there ever was/is an intention to bring her back.
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
'Resurrections' in star trek are hardly uncommon on-screen and in books. The most well-known is Spock's, of course, but there are others - Dax, Sisko, the back-door for Data's return, etc. Even more - Picard, for example, 'died' a few times in individual episodes and was brought back at the episode's end; in books, this also happened often (shatnerverse, the entropy effect, etc, etc).
BD's ending was an obvious 'back-door' for bringing Janeway back - it was all but admitted that she's still, in some form or another, alive. It's almost certain that, when the book was written, the plan was to bring the character back after a while.
This is the same gimmick used in comics - where, as I said, it creates a stale universe.
BD's ending was a gigantic back-door for a character who was not planned to come back...
Far too large.
First thing's first - I agree completely about Death's revolving door making comic book universes stale and stuck in the status quo.
About resurrections in Trek - you've provided examples for "canon" deaths / near-deaths, and I think with Janeway it's defferent, as it was the first time the books did it on a "starring" character (Mack did it with SCE's Wildfire a few years earlier IIRC). I honestly don't think you can point to any such pattern within Pocket Books' Trek Lit line.
As for BD's ending - the fact that a back door was established, didn't mean there was any editorial *intention* to use it (and I think either KRAD or Christopher commented about it a while ago)
Hear here!
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
So, now we are no longer talking about the entirety of star trek, but the Pocket books line.
Very well - except Janeway, they've killed only characters established in the books. Why is this important? Because on-screen characters are much more well-known/profitable.
They did not bring back Data (despite Nemesis' back door) - but recent developments on Titan might change that.
They left a huge back-door for Janeway - they had no intention of using it? Then why insert such a large back-door in the first place?
Let's say it was just an uninspired decision - among many in 'Before dishonor' - and the intention to NOT bring Janeway back was clearly stated.
Well, in this very thread, Kristen Beyer was far more ambiguous about whether Janeway will come back or not.
Data/Janeway are very well known - the tentation to bring them back compelling, especially when there are so many ways to do it 'believable'.
The decision may belong to the current editors or the future ones - but the reason remains the same: the characters can help sell the books.
ProtoAvatar said:
As has been said, the "backdoor" in Before Dishonor was inserted at the direction of the licensing office.
Whether or not that bit is ever actually revisited remains to be seen (I honestly have no clue whatsoever about any future direction(s) of the VGR line).
- Status
Similar threads
