Should they bring back Janeway?

[Daddy Todd]

I've wondered at times if the vehemence of the Church of the Living Janeway (wonderful phrase there, Steve) is due largely to the utter trainwreck that was Before Dishonor in handling Janeway's demise.

I'd be willing to wager that no more than 5% to 10% of the membership of the Church of the Living Janeway has even read Before Dishonor. If I read their posts correctly, they seem to hate the idea of dead Janeway, not the way it was brought about.

The bottom line is what matters to Pocket Books--or it's what should matter to them. They are in the business of selling books and should be conscious of what those potential readers want. They need more readers, new readers, because the people here are going to buy anything that has "Star Trek" on the cover are already on board. New readers come from the small and big screen--sad but true. Failing to write for them is to doom the whole Relaunch to oblivion IMHO.

What you say is true, but your conclusion that the ONLY way to bring in new readers is to Bring Back Janeway might not be true. It's possible that your affection for Capt. Janeway might color your conclusions.

I believe that Pocket Books has a much better grasp on what sells and what doesn't sell that I - or you - do. It's literally their business to know what sells. When and if they ever decide that sales of the Voyager books are being negatively impacted by Janeway's absence, they'll cook up a means of bringing her back. Until they reach that conclusion, she'll stay dead.

 

[Daddy Todd]

Double Post

 

[JoeP]

Leave her dead. If you're going to have the guts to kill off a major character, then have the guts to leave them that way.

Why don't you go tell that one to William Shatner? It doesn't take guts to kill a major character, it only takes lack of imagination and to try to cover that lack with sensationalism.

Brit

No, it takes guts to kill a major character and leave him/her dead. Pocket should be applauded for so far not kowtowing to a vocal minority and bringing her back.

And I find it kinda strange that an author, such as you are, can't respect the creative decisions of other authors/editors. Why are you so anti-author??

 

[Thrawn]

Based on your post, it obviously isn't about parity. It's about writing books that are of interest to the majority of Star Trek fans. It's about selling more books to new fans who come to the fandom the way most of us do--through the TV series and the movies.

Having recently made an effort to get into the large-scale DC comics continuity, only to be so disheartened by all the continuity and inside jokes that I didn't understand that I eventually gave up, I totally understand the complaint about excessive continuity not being new-reader friendly. That's 100% valid. And, obviously, tie-in literature is expressly designed to tie-in to something else, and the further it strays from what that looks like, the more radical a jump it is. It's kind of the fundamental issue with tie-in literature, that it has to balance telling new stories with not rocking the boat too much. And the Trek line may have gone too far away recently. I don't think it has, but I can see that perspective.

My problem is the whining that Voyager or Voyager fans have been unfairly messed with, when I don't see any difference between how Voyager has been handled and the rest of the lines have. Disagree with the whole creative direction? Sure, that's valid. Complain that Voyager fans have been disrespected? I don't think so. (In fact, in the thread where many people have complained about the recent direction, just as many people called the VOY books the surprise hits of the year.)

But, for the record, I gave two friends the Destiny trilogy, one of whom had watched all the TV shows but never read any books, and one of whom hadn't even watched the TV shows (only First Contact and ST09). I gave them about a 5-minute primer on recent TrekLit events, and that was all they needed - they both LOVED it, bought all the post-Destiny novels so far themselves, and are both eagerly awaiting the Typhon Pact miniseries.

So, I don't think the books are as inaccessible as you think. Judging by the relative amounts of Amazon reviews, the Destiny trilogy was widely read and a huge hit. Perhaps Pocket should do a better job of "previously in Star Trek" summaries, something I personally would absolutely support, but aside from that I think the complaint is one of perception rather than reality. You really can pick up the books in the middle, especially at any Major Event novel, and have it stand alone.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Leave her dead. If you're going to have the guts to kill off a major character, then have the guts to leave them that way.

Why don't you go tell that one to William Shatner? It doesn't take guts to kill a major character, it only takes lack of imagination and to try to cover that lack with sensationalism.

Brit

Doesn't take imagination to keep a character alive, either. A slavish dedication to the status quo will do it.

I haven't read the Janeway death book, but such a generalization is hardly constructive. Maybe it is an unimaginative book, maybe it's sensationalist, maybe its gutsy, maybe it's... whatever.

Point is, it all depends on the story.

 

[JoeP]

Perhaps Pocket should do a better job of "previously in Star Trek" summaries, something I personally would absolutely support, but aside from that I think the complaint is one of perception rather than reality.

I've always liked that idea. It also saves having to shoe-horn in exposition in the prose or dialogue of the characters during the body of the story, which can seem extremely unnatural.

 

[chelly]

Or they can bring back the book list. I do that when I start reading a series midway,if I enjoy it I find out what the previous ones were. I don't usually find any issues with it. Unless you find out the murderer in the book, was really a nice person in the others.


I think it took alot of guts to kill off a main character from one of the trek series.

 

[Thrawn]

^ Well, this isn't something Pocket has done, but that's a really easy problem to solve. If you google, for instance, "Star Trek Vanguard", the first three results are Memory Alpha, Wikipedia, and Memory Beta, all of which have the complete list of novels in that series. It's really easy to find out info like that with the internet around; I don't think they need to worry about publishing that in every novel.

A summary of prior relevant plot events, a la a "previously", is much harder to come by though.

 

[Lonemagpie]

You see you don’t even have to write stories about her but she has to be alive and there has to be the possibility that someday a story will include her. This is not an unreasonable goal, and we are not changing what you want to read, we just want her alive.

So I am no longer purchasing Trek Novels that includes the dead Janeway story line.

So, all 24th century treklit?

Nothing wrong with feeling that way - lots of people stop reading a series, or watching a show when a favourite character or actor goes.

There are natural places to stop following a series, same as there are places to start.

I have no desire to read that and it’s not reasonable to expect me to purchase and support a story line that is IMHO not only depressing fiction but bad fiction.

That's a remarkably generalizing insult to many professional authors who just happen to write for the series post-Janeway.

If your favourite, best, author of all time wrote one, does this mean their fiction is now bad, tainted by association with the publisher's line?

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I assure you that Kirk is presumed dead. He was really placed in stasis by Gary Seven and recruited as an agent for his organization! His next mission is to cross over to the nuTrek Universe and recruit Spock!

I'd read that book!

Excepting the "mission to cross over to the nuTrek Universe and recruit Spock" you can read the first half of the story in Strange New Worlds 9. The name of the story is Rocket Man written by some asshole that posts on this board.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Another vote here for bringing Janeway back.

 

[JD]

My second favorite series is TNG. Right now, aboard the ship as a member of the crew, TNG does not feature Data, Riker, Troi, or Ro (not a regular, but definitely a favorite). Data is dead. Riker and Troi are on another ship. So is Ro.

My third favorite series is VOY. Right now, aboard the ship as a member of the crew, VOY does not feature Janeway, Tuvok, or Neelix. Janeway is dead. Tuvok is on another ship. On the other hand, it has added Barclay, a recurring character, to the regulars.

Please explain to me the lack of parity and fairness?

Based on your post, it obviously isn't about parity. It's about writing books that are of interest to the majority of Star Trek fans. It's about selling more books to new fans who come to the fandom the way most of us do--through the TV series and the movies. This nuTrek might just spark interest in reruns or older movies, creating new fans who want to read about what they have seen in the programs--and what they have seen is long gone in the current novels.

Your post clearly highlights what for most of us "disenchanted fans" believe makes the current direction of the Pocket Books relaunch so uninteresting (there is a whole thread on the direction of the relaunch elsewhere on this forum that is quite critical of it). What this absence of known and loved characters has done is more or less made it impossible for the casual fan/reader who enjoys one of the TV series (or remembers it fondly) to pick up a book and start or resume their Star Trek reading habits. The relaunch has gone so far astray from the onscreen canon that it requires someone to read many MANY books to come up to speed--even if the writers and editors argue otherwise. Of course, they argue that. They are heavily invested in the continuation of the story line, so they continue the "myth" that each novel stands alone when it is obvious that each novel doesn't.

You guys have been making it sound like there are nor original characters left, but that not true at all. In fact if you go through series by series you will find that a lot of characters are from the shows.
Let's start with Voyager:
Screen: Chakotay, Seven, Tom, B'Elanna, Harry, Miral, Reg, The Doctor, Vorik, Barclay,
Prose: Eden, Cambridge, Sharak, Colon (originally from COE), Lasren, Gwyn,
DS9:
Screen: Kira, Dax, Bashir, Nog, Jake, Quark, Kasidy, Sisko, Ro
Prose: Vaughn, Prynn, Bowers, Shar, Cenn, Mathias
TNG:
Screen: Picard, Worf, Crusher, La Forge
Prose: Kadohata, Choudhury, Faur, Elfiki, Chen
Titan:
Screen: Riker, Troi, Ogawa, Tuvok, Pazlar, Rager
Prose: Vale, Ra-Havreii, Ree, Dakal, Lavena, Keru,
CoE:
Screen: Gomez, Duffy, Stevens, Lense, Sarjenka
Prose: Gold, Tev, Soloman, Abramawitz, Faulwell, Blue, Corsi
Gorkon:
screen: Klag, Drex, Kornan, Toq, Leskit, Kurak, Rodek
Van:
Screen: M'Benga, Marcus, Nogura
Prose: Reyes, Pennington, Desai, Ganz, Quinn, Jetanien, Xion, Fisher
Stargazer
Prose: Zoma, Wu, Joseph, Asmund, Asmund, Greyhorse
New Frontier:
TV: Shelby, Lefler, Selar, Primus, Arex, M'Ress, Jellico
Prose: Calhoun, Soleta, Kebron, McHenry, Cwan, Mueller, Cwan, Tobias, Takahashi, Gold, Xy, Moke

I'm still seeing plenty of characters from the TV shows there.

 

[chelly]

Killing one or two of those people is nothing compared to what SW writers put the SW characters through. You don't see the guys from the movies in the books all that much unless they want them as targets for something. That is one of my issues with the SW books, you don't really see a whole lot of the Original characters.

 

[JoeP]

Killing one or two of those people is nothing compared to what SW writers put the SW characters through. You don't see the guys from the movies in the books all that much unless they want them as targets for something. That is one of my issues with the SW books, you don't really see a whole lot of the Original characters. Though from what I have heard it is mostly because Lucas is the one who is charge of it.

Actually, from what I understand, Lucas is pretty hands off when it comes to the EU. He's all over the Clone Wars TV show, though.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Why let reality stand in the way of Lucas bashing?

 

[JoeP]

Why let reality stand in the way of Lucas bashing?

Yeah, the anti-Lucas sentiment is getting really tiresome...

 

[chelly]

It wasn't meant as lucas bashing, what I was saying I heard from their boards but this was a quite a while ago (when they killed anakin solo) but then the people on the forums are not the authors so I am probably just repeating opinions. So I will admit I am wrong about Lucas. ThougH I have to say the latest books are pretty good. Not as good as Trek fiction but still better then the solo kid turns evil saga. I would delete my earlier post but I don't have that option.

 

[Oparu]

I'd get a kick out of seeing Janeway somewhere else. The Voyager books that followed her death have really done a great deal with work through the concept. I enjoy having death be part of the Trek universe. I love Janeway, I miss her, but that's part of the fun. Grief enriches the lives of those she left behind. I think it makes the Trek universe more interesting and I really liked both Unworthy and Full Circle. How our heroes deal with death is fascinating reading.

If resurrected in some fashion Janeway made an appearance in a DS9 or TNG book, I'd love it. If a Janeway appeared in some yet-unwritten Abrahmsverse Voyager characters book, I'd love it. If there were to be more books about Voyager still be in the Delta Quadrant, because surely there are still stories there, I'd be happy about that too.

I like Janeway. I like her being with Chakotay. This doesn't mean I need her back some kind of reset to where the Voyager characters (including Tuvok, who I like on Titan) are all back on Voyager. There are enough Myriad Universe/Quantum Alternate Realities/Wonderlands where I can have things that way.

 

[JarodRussell]

I miss her, but that's part of the fun. Grief enriches the lives of those she left behind.

Ha, I'm going to quote that on the next funeral and report the reactions.

 

[F. King Daniel]

FWIW, what inspired this thread was Admiral Janeway's appearence in Captain's Glory. I think she's great as the bossy admiral, handing out unpleasent orders to the likes of Picard and Riker. Imagine if it she was in the Destiny war room along with Jellico and the rest. The Borg would crumble under the weight of her "Not on my planet!" -type power speeches.