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Should Star Trek just give up?

blockaderunner

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Not give up as in closing shop and not making a lick of filmed Trek ever again. But give up trying to get that elusive mainstream audience.

Let's face it. At this point, Trek has become, as it was in the 1970's prior to TMP, a niche franchise in a niche genre. It had its time in the sun throughout the 80's and 90's. A rather impressive run, might I add. But that kind of reign had to end eventually. And in the past 5 or six years, the attempts to try to reach that lofty status has pulled Trek further and further away from its core ideals. Instead of telling thought provoking tales that often merit discussion, it has tried to keep up with the Joneses with wall to wall action pieces and paying lip service to relevant issues, often outdated (ENT's "Stigma"). And when a show like nuBSG comes along and actually tells stories in that thought provoking manner that Trek once did so well, Trek looks like an aging, pulverized prizefighter in the ring trying to be something it once was but not longer is by comparison.

As I said before, this observation doesn't mean that it should be the end of Star Trek. But it does mean that it's the end of Star Trek as a pop culture cornerstone. And how bad is that? Whoever will be in charge of Star Trek in the future ('cause it's not set in stone that JJ will be), they should make Trek at a modest budget, an intimate style, and not cowtow to any preconcieved fan notions. In fact, they should just concentrate on making great stories. Period. As if there wasn't a such thing as a "Trekker" or "Trekkie". And not worry about pop culture conquest. With calenders, Hallmark ornaments, and other knick-knacks steadily selling well, it's not like it's losing money, so why not just go the other way from bigger and louder? A scaledown might be the best thing to happen to Star Trek.
 
No harm in trying, at least to me. Being mainstream means you get more of it, which means a better chance of finding something enjoyable.
 
I believe my Star Trek ended with Nemesis.

No Enterprise the TV Show or any new movie.
 
lets see if it can compete while still remaining true to trek....and if it fails then you can throw in the towel, but why give up now?
 
blockaderunner said:
<SNIP!>

Myself, I can't believe I live in a world that's still making James Bond movies. Just go with it or read more.
 
PowderedToastMan said:
lets see if it can compete while still remaining true to trek....and if it fails then you can throw in the towel, but why give up now?


Because I can.

What's it going to compete with?
 
What's it competing with ? itself of course. As long as it doesn't conflict or contradict what we knoe it should be fine.
 
The film is being targeted toward a wide audience, 99.9% of whom won't know or care what it conflicts or contradicts with. Abrams should be more focused on making a good film than making sure it totally fits with the existing canon.
 
Well, I dunno, I think if they went back to being good scince fiction it would get an audience, it might even get the mainstream audience. NuBSG got a pretty big audience by making a good TV show and not dumbing the ideas down, and Lost and Heros did much the same. Make good TV and people watch it. Make stupid stuff designed to "appeal to the mainstream" -- which judging by what hollywood puts out, drools on itself -- and people lose interest after a while.

I think if I were given control, I'd have it be simply a well written show, forget what focus groups say and just do good scifi stories. Style is great, but it's icing, and without the cake, icing isn't very good.

Right now, courting the mainstream seems more like dressing grandpa in leather and giving him a mohawk so he can be kewl. Everybody knows it's fake, and the response is more likely to be pointing and laughing than taking him seriously.
 
Why does "appeals to the mainstream" have to automatically equal "stupid stuff"? Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman Begins, Casino Royale, and Lord of the Rings all had mainstream appeal, but very few people would classify those films as "stupid." They're not high art, but neither are they on the same level as the latest Rob Schneider "comedy."

When I say "appeal to the mainstream," all I really want is for Abrams to tell a story in such a way that it'll draw more than the usual cadre of basement-dwelling fanboys, which is what the film needs if we ever want to see new Trek in the immediate future beyond 2008.
 
cardinal biggles said:
When I say "appeal to the mainstream," all I really want is for Abrams to tell a story in such a way that it'll draw more than the usual cadre of basement-dwelling fanboys, which is what the film needs if we ever want to see new Trek in the immediate future beyond 2008.

Exactly. "Appeal to the mainstream" can mean "tell a story that's good enough that someone might possibly be motivated to sit it through even though they don't know or want to know what the godforsaken Romulan Wars were or what a dilithium crystal is."

Or who James Kirk is when they go in, for that matter.

After all, there was a time when no one was a "Star Trek" fan and the episodes had to draw them in.
 
UWC Defiance said:
cardinal biggles said:
When I say "appeal to the mainstream," all I really want is for Abrams to tell a story in such a way that it'll draw more than the usual cadre of basement-dwelling fanboys, which is what the film needs if we ever want to see new Trek in the immediate future beyond 2008.
Exactly. "Appeal to the mainstream" can mean "tell a story that's good enough that someone might possibly be motivated to sit it through even though they don't know or want to know what the godforsaken Romulan Wars were or what a dilithium crystal is."

Or who James Kirk is when they go in, for that matter.

After all, there was a time when no one was a "Star Trek" fan and the episodes had to draw them in.
I think that's something that everyone here can, or at least SHOULD, agree with!

The reason that Trek fans are fans is because the show was, at some point, good enough to draw us all in.

I keep saying... it's a huge mistake to assume that "mainstream appeal" and "fan appeal" are somehow diametrically-opposing points of view. Would ANY of us be fans if the show had always... well, sucked? ;)

Mainstream appeal... good storytelling, compelling characterizations, a believable environment... is what brought us in. And that'll be what brings others in to watch, too.
 
Trek should give up and just stick to producing novels from now on since it won't be able to afford TV or movies if it doesn't go after the mainstream audience.

Therefore there will be no further reason to visit this forum! See ya all in Trek Lit! :)







...








(Are they gone yet?)
 
NuBSG got a pretty big audience by making a good TV show and not dumbing the ideas down,

BSG's audience is very nichey and has been dropping steadily. On a "real" network, it would have been cancelled long ago. S4 will be the last (not that I'd want another season - the story can be wrapped up well in another season)

and Lost and Heros did much the same.

Lost has been losing audience because people are sick of waiting for answers. Until we have some answers (IF we ever get answers) it will be impossible to say whether Lost is "intelligent" at all - at this point, nobody knows what the stupid thing is about! Lost is hanging onto whatever audience it has left in no small part due to sexy characters and melodramatic antics.

I love the heck out of Heroes, but there are plenty of stupid mainstream-appeal elements: sexy underage cheerleader and internet stripper as the main female characters for starters, how crass can you get? Not that I'm complaining due to the impressive number of hot guys in the cast. :lol: Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite, but I know damn well why a lot of the audience tunes in. The Heroes writers use cliched plot twists far too much, and plot & character logic is sometimes stretched to the breaking point for the convenience of the story. And even with all this pandering to the audience, Heroes has been shedding viewers.

I'll be in for the duration with all three shows, but together they form a pretty strong argument for a certain amount of pandering to a mainstream audience being necessary for success, especially for success on ABC or NBC vs silly little Skiffy. Trek is going for the ABC/NBC level of success. ENT was cancelled with a higher level of viewership than BSG got at its peak so BSG-level success is not relevant here.
 
The way to make big money is with a mainstream audience. If they decided that Trek was a "niche" property, they might still make it, but with a dramatically reduced budget. That means Sci-Fi Channel-type productions, with limited and cheaply done special effects, unknown actors, cheaply made sets, etc.

And I just don't see that approach working for Trek.
 
Trek is about to receive the biggest creative jolt in over 20 years (since TNG was conceived). The franchise is taking a huge left turn and starting a new chapter. There's a new regime running Paramount and a new producer (JJ Abrams) stepping to take the franchise and run with it. JJ is also surrounding himself with talented people who have never worked in Trek before. Trek is getting a massive injection of "fresh blood" after the same people working on it for the last couple of decades.

I, personally, think this is an exciting time. I think Abrams is a great choice to produce and direct the next Trek film. I think it's really interesting that he's going back to TOS and re-casting the original crew. I'm really curious to see how this film turns out. It could be successful, if handled properly. However, Trek is facing an uphill battle. The mainstream audience never gave Trek much of a chance... they need a damn good reason to care about the franchise now. Abrams may be able to pull it off... I say it's worth a shot.
 
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