What I don't understand about "Things Past" is Kira's reaction to Odo, especially considering their history on Terok Nor. I did not feel she was very fair with him.
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
- Thread starter Shatnertage
- Start date
I am now climbing up a mountain. It's an arduous trek, fitting for...
"The Ascent"
Two stories: one, about two friends who grow estranged. The other, about two enemies who become closer.
It's interesting from a theoretical point of view, but this episode wasn't a lot of fun to watch for me. I had high expectations because Odo and Quark are two of my favorite characters, but it just didn't really deliver.
I did like the fizzbin reference, though.
So this was kind of a blah episode for me. I can appreciate what they were shooting for, but the whole situation felt kind of contrived, which killed it for me.
"The Ascent"
Two stories: one, about two friends who grow estranged. The other, about two enemies who become closer.
It's interesting from a theoretical point of view, but this episode wasn't a lot of fun to watch for me. I had high expectations because Odo and Quark are two of my favorite characters, but it just didn't really deliver.
I did like the fizzbin reference, though.
So this was kind of a blah episode for me. I can appreciate what they were shooting for, but the whole situation felt kind of contrived, which killed it for me.
This is the season where most of the characters and relationships change a little. I agree The Ascent somewhat pedestrian but all the changes in the episode (and in the next episode) will pan out nicely in the future.
The Ascent is actually one of my favorites. The Odo/Quark stuff is pure gold, IMHO. And I really loved how we got to see Sisko and Rom interact with each other as two fathers.
That and I've always thought that Rom thinking Nog was replaced by a Changling to be hilarious.
That and I've always thought that Rom thinking Nog was replaced by a Changling to be hilarious.
I killed myself laughing during "The Ascent", the scenes between Quark and Odo in the runabout were hilarious. Really good episode.
Naming DS9 episodes after Blondie songs is sheer...
"Rapture"
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHCdS7O248g[/yt]
Actually, there are a lot of similarities between the video and the episode, though instead of Debbie Harry looking vacantly at the camera, you get a lot of Avery Brooks looking vacantly at the camera.
Well, this episode was...kind of confused and tedious. First of all, it's another episode where Sisko does something in 40 minutes that the Bajorans haven't been able to do for centuries--in this case, find the lost city of B'Hala.
If that's not enough, Sisko also begins to have prophetic visions--because he got a static shock while taking out a USB drive.
The Emissary vs. Starfleet officer conflict was the best part of the concept, but by making it a technobabble problem (neural potentialities?) and giving it a technobabble solution, I feel like they copped out. The really could have pushed it further and done a man of science/man of faith thing and scooped Lost.
Another weird, weird thing: after a six-month vacation in New Zealand, Kasidy Yates is back. Despite the fact that she lied to Sisko and betrayed him and the Federation, Sisko kept her old quarters on hold for her.
Maybe it's just a post-9/11 mentality, but imagine that a civilian contractor was caught working with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Even if she only got 6 months in prison, would she really be free to fraternize with the guy in charge of the most strategic base in the area? I don't think so. I'm surprised that Starfleet is uncomfortable with Sisko having visions, but totally cool with him getting together with a convicted Maquis sympathizer.
Strange.
Both Penny Johnson and Cirroc Lofton acted their asses off in the scene where Sisko said he wanted to keep having the visions. Avery Brooks didn't seem to quite be on the same page.
But there's some good stuff. Kai Winn shows up and totally pwns Kira, for example.
All in all, though, I don't think this one went far enough.
"Rapture"
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHCdS7O248g[/yt]
Actually, there are a lot of similarities between the video and the episode, though instead of Debbie Harry looking vacantly at the camera, you get a lot of Avery Brooks looking vacantly at the camera.
Well, this episode was...kind of confused and tedious. First of all, it's another episode where Sisko does something in 40 minutes that the Bajorans haven't been able to do for centuries--in this case, find the lost city of B'Hala.
If that's not enough, Sisko also begins to have prophetic visions--because he got a static shock while taking out a USB drive.
The Emissary vs. Starfleet officer conflict was the best part of the concept, but by making it a technobabble problem (neural potentialities?) and giving it a technobabble solution, I feel like they copped out. The really could have pushed it further and done a man of science/man of faith thing and scooped Lost.
Another weird, weird thing: after a six-month vacation in New Zealand, Kasidy Yates is back. Despite the fact that she lied to Sisko and betrayed him and the Federation, Sisko kept her old quarters on hold for her.
Maybe it's just a post-9/11 mentality, but imagine that a civilian contractor was caught working with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Even if she only got 6 months in prison, would she really be free to fraternize with the guy in charge of the most strategic base in the area? I don't think so. I'm surprised that Starfleet is uncomfortable with Sisko having visions, but totally cool with him getting together with a convicted Maquis sympathizer.
Strange.
Both Penny Johnson and Cirroc Lofton acted their asses off in the scene where Sisko said he wanted to keep having the visions. Avery Brooks didn't seem to quite be on the same page.
But there's some good stuff. Kai Winn shows up and totally pwns Kira, for example.
All in all, though, I don't think this one went far enough.
Another one I really like, as I think they did the science vs. faith aspect perfectly.
This episode is really more of a character piece intended to highlight Sisko's evolution from widowed single parent and reluctant Emissary into that of a father figure for both his family and the Bajoran people.
This has been addressed before, but a lot of the "terrorism" aspects of DS9 seemed to be presented in a very inconsequential manner when looking back at them through post-2001 glasses. But even at the time it aired I remembered thinking it odd that she just got right back into the swing of things as if she hadn't gone to prison for treason against the Federation.
I think it was a bit of a retcon on the writers part. They thought it would be cool to have Sisko's girlfriend get sent up the river for betraying him, but then decided it would be even cooler if he actually had a girlfriend.
This ep. bored me the first time I saw it. The next time I appreciated the Quark/Odo story.
Of course, even in TOS, there's a record of extremely light or nonexistent punishments for major crimes, because apparently they believe in "rehabilitating" people rather than punishing them. Criminal justice is not exactly the Federation's strong suit.
I'm not arguing that what the Cardassians or powers like them do is right, of course--but sending people to Camp Fed for a short "vacation" out in LotR-land does not constitute real justice.
Other than Kai Winn, I felt this ep. was kind of boring.
Of course, even in TOS, there's a record of extremely light or nonexistent punishments for major crimes, because apparently they believe in "rehabilitating" people rather than punishing them. Criminal justice is not exactly the Federation's strong suit.
I'm not arguing that what the Cardassians or powers like them do is right, of course--but sending people to Camp Fed for a short "vacation" out in LotR-land does not constitute real justice.
Agreed. I think it's their way of showing hat humanity has evolved beyond the need to lock people up forever. A short time-out is all it takes to set you back on the right track.
And having a penal colony in New Zealand, one of the most beautful places on Earth, makes no sense. Sending someone to Siberia or the Sahara would be much more punitave. Maybe they chose it because it sounds far away and isolated?
Of course, even in TOS, there's a record of extremely light or nonexistent punishments for major crimes, because apparently they believe in "rehabilitating" people rather than punishing them. Criminal justice is not exactly the Federation's strong suit.
I'm not arguing that what the Cardassians or powers like them do is right, of course--but sending people to Camp Fed for a short "vacation" out in LotR-land does not constitute real justice.
Agreed. I think it's their way of showing hat humanity has evolved beyond the need to lock people up forever. A short time-out is all it takes to set you back on the right track.
And having a penal colony in New Zealand, one of the most beautful places on Earth, makes no sense. Sending someone to Siberia or the Sahara would be much more punitave. Maybe they chose it because it sounds far away and isolated?
But isn't that the point? Rehabilitation vs. punishment? They're trying to get people to change their behaviors, not just punish them for their crimes.
I'm having trouble seeing because it keeps alternating between...
"The Darkness and the Light"
This is going to be short--I'm totally slammed at work and with my writing, on top of which I've decided to launch a new website dedicated to how to have a good time bringing your small kids to Vegas. If you're interested in seeing how my review of, say, The Gentleman Bug differs from my review of DS9, go ahead and click that link. I actually got the idea for doing the site partially because I want to review kids TV shows like I'm doing here for DS9. That'll be fun.
Oh, back to the episode, which kind of has to do with kids, since Kira's still pregnant. This was a strange one. It started as a whodunnit, but by the end got legitimately, Silence of the Lambs creepy. It's hard to believe it's Randy Oglesby, who played the quintessential nice family guy Degra, under all that Cardassian makeup. And his rage isn't totally unjustified, at least from his perspective.
One funny note: the Bajoran sidearm looks suspiciously like a staple gun.
But this was, pardon the pun, a really dark episode...in a good way. Great acting from Nana Visitor and Armin Shimerman, in particular. Her final scene with the bad guy was great, in that it made me think quite a bit about who was right and who was wrong. I guess the answer is, both of them.
Dramatically, they followed (I think) Chekhov's rule that if you show a pair of dueling pistols hanging over the mantle in act 1, you've got to have someone use them in act 3 (at least that's how I remember it). They set up the herbs as counter-acting sedatives early, which meant that, a split second before she kicked out from her "sleep," I guessed what was going to happen. Good stuff.
And, as my wife says, Kira's much better when she's being a badass than when she's all smiley.
"The Darkness and the Light"
This is going to be short--I'm totally slammed at work and with my writing, on top of which I've decided to launch a new website dedicated to how to have a good time bringing your small kids to Vegas. If you're interested in seeing how my review of, say, The Gentleman Bug differs from my review of DS9, go ahead and click that link. I actually got the idea for doing the site partially because I want to review kids TV shows like I'm doing here for DS9. That'll be fun.
Oh, back to the episode, which kind of has to do with kids, since Kira's still pregnant. This was a strange one. It started as a whodunnit, but by the end got legitimately, Silence of the Lambs creepy. It's hard to believe it's Randy Oglesby, who played the quintessential nice family guy Degra, under all that Cardassian makeup. And his rage isn't totally unjustified, at least from his perspective.
One funny note: the Bajoran sidearm looks suspiciously like a staple gun.
But this was, pardon the pun, a really dark episode...in a good way. Great acting from Nana Visitor and Armin Shimerman, in particular. Her final scene with the bad guy was great, in that it made me think quite a bit about who was right and who was wrong. I guess the answer is, both of them.
Dramatically, they followed (I think) Chekhov's rule that if you show a pair of dueling pistols hanging over the mantle in act 1, you've got to have someone use them in act 3 (at least that's how I remember it). They set up the herbs as counter-acting sedatives early, which meant that, a split second before she kicked out from her "sleep," I guessed what was going to happen. Good stuff.
And, as my wife says, Kira's much better when she's being a badass than when she's all smiley.
Justice in what sense? The American system of justice is a retributive-based one (although the rhetoric pretends it's an effective deterrent-based system). Even when prisoners are "freed," they're forever forced to live with the stigma of having done time, often with legal restrictions on their lives, in addition to the unfortunate extralegal ones.
What we've seen of the Federation, in contrast, seems more like the justice system in certain European countries (say, Sweden) where the sentences are shorter (often, indexed to rates of recidivism) and the post-incarceration social stigma is less evident.
I'll let you guess which system is more effective in practice.
You'll get no argument from me that the American criminal justice system is screwed up almost beyond all repair and that a little simple, basic human compassion sure wouldn't hurt (but then, governments aren't exactly known for offering that, are they?). But, the Federation's justice system really does seem to go too far.
Apparently, this is a system where someone can attempt a coup d'etat in order to install a military dictatorship and get off the hook if he resigns his Starfleet commission (DS9: Paradise Lost). Apparently, people can outright murder others and then legitimately act like they're the victims (TNG: Up the Long Ladder). Now, people can supposedly commit acts of treason against the Federation and all they get is a seven month sentence followed by no social stigma whatsoever. IMO, that's all more than a little too much in the other direction.
Now, as for The Darkness and the Light - it's another really good one. In fact, it was the last episode I watched during DS9's original run. I was in high school at the time and my parents switched cable companies. On the new lineup, DS9 was only shown at 2 A.M., so that pretty much killed my chances of seeing it. I had to wait for the show to be released on DVD to see the rest of it. So maybe my nostalgia colors my perceptions of this episode, but I doubt it - it's a really good look at both sides of the Occupation.
That scene is a little weird because of how Kira refers to Ireland as a distinct entity rather than referring to Earth as a whole, which is something that aliens on Star Trek rarely ever do, but I suppose she has worked with O'Brien for a long time and he probably talks about it with her off-screen. Either that or the Irish tourism board is doing a bang-up job advertising Ireland to aliens.
To be honest, it doesn't really bother me. The Bringloidi and the Fair Havenites annoy me because they're caricatures, their entire personalities are based around a false and somewhat offensive interpretation of Irishness. But O'Brien is just a guy first and foremost, he wasn't created to be an Irish character, that's just what he is because of Colm Meaney's accent. So I don't mind if they throw in a few vague stereotypes every now and then because the overall depiction of the character is quite positive. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that O'Brien is one of the best depictions of an Irish character (not Irish-American) that I've seen on American TV.
^ Glad TGB responded to my question. I see where you're coming from. If you ever want to know what someone from Las Vegas thinks of how Vegas is portrayed in Trek (I have a feeling that it's going to be getting some holodeck lounge time) I will certainly share my thoughts.
Some time to watch DS9 last night begot...
"The Begotten"
As a father, this episode was a real joy to watch. I usually despise the "stranger to parent in 40 minutes or less" Trek episodes, but this one was an exception, almost solely because of what Rene Auberjonois put into it.
In his first scene with the changeling, on one level I was aware that this was a guy in heavy makeup talking to a glass of apple juice. But on the other, he absolutely sold the reality of his character discovering parenthood. Nice how this built on that conversation with Sisko about how Sisko still worries about Jake.
And I hate to be negative, but Auberjonois had more chemistry with that glass of apple juice than Avery Brooks often has with the actor who's been playing his son for the past five years. No hammock time, though, but you can't ask for everything.
Having Dr. Mora show up really captured the parent/grandparent dynamic very, very well. Unlike most parent/grandparent dynamics, though, Odo and Mora were sensitive people who realized that they both were at least partially wrong. By caring for the little changeling, they came to accept each other. Very touching.
Then there's the B story of Kira giving birth to the O'Briens' baby. Am I the only one who was reminded of Mr. Homn banging that gong every time Lwaxana took a bite in "Haven" (fond memories) by the Bajoran birth ritual?
Having been closely involved (well, as closely as possible) in the births of two children in a hospital that I hope is on par with the current state of obstetrics, I'll just say that Bajorans give birth much differently than humans do. It's a lot less messy and quieter, with less drugs and cursing all around.
I liked the tussles between O'Brien and Shakaar, too.
Back to the main story--it was heart-breaking when the little changeling died, again mostly because of how Rene Auberjonois. I shouldn't have been at all invested in a tube of blue ooze, but I'll admit that I teared up at the end. For a similar episode, see VOY: "Real Life," which started out as a holodeck farce but, by the end, really tugged on your heartstrings thanks to Robert Picardo's superb acting.
Nice bit of continuity when Odo shapeshifts into the Tarkelian hawk: his "real" uniform crumples to the floor.
And the final scene with Kira and Odo, ending with them walking off together with a shared understanding, was the last bit of wonderfulness in the episode.
As you can tell, I really liked this one.
Some time to watch DS9 last night begot...
"The Begotten"
As a father, this episode was a real joy to watch. I usually despise the "stranger to parent in 40 minutes or less" Trek episodes, but this one was an exception, almost solely because of what Rene Auberjonois put into it.
In his first scene with the changeling, on one level I was aware that this was a guy in heavy makeup talking to a glass of apple juice. But on the other, he absolutely sold the reality of his character discovering parenthood. Nice how this built on that conversation with Sisko about how Sisko still worries about Jake.
And I hate to be negative, but Auberjonois had more chemistry with that glass of apple juice than Avery Brooks often has with the actor who's been playing his son for the past five years. No hammock time, though, but you can't ask for everything.
Having Dr. Mora show up really captured the parent/grandparent dynamic very, very well. Unlike most parent/grandparent dynamics, though, Odo and Mora were sensitive people who realized that they both were at least partially wrong. By caring for the little changeling, they came to accept each other. Very touching.
Then there's the B story of Kira giving birth to the O'Briens' baby. Am I the only one who was reminded of Mr. Homn banging that gong every time Lwaxana took a bite in "Haven" (fond memories) by the Bajoran birth ritual?
Having been closely involved (well, as closely as possible) in the births of two children in a hospital that I hope is on par with the current state of obstetrics, I'll just say that Bajorans give birth much differently than humans do. It's a lot less messy and quieter, with less drugs and cursing all around.
I liked the tussles between O'Brien and Shakaar, too.
Back to the main story--it was heart-breaking when the little changeling died, again mostly because of how Rene Auberjonois. I shouldn't have been at all invested in a tube of blue ooze, but I'll admit that I teared up at the end. For a similar episode, see VOY: "Real Life," which started out as a holodeck farce but, by the end, really tugged on your heartstrings thanks to Robert Picardo's superb acting.
Nice bit of continuity when Odo shapeshifts into the Tarkelian hawk: his "real" uniform crumples to the floor.
And the final scene with Kira and Odo, ending with them walking off together with a shared understanding, was the last bit of wonderfulness in the episode.
As you can tell, I really liked this one.
Similar threads
