Must refuse to spoil something. 
The Ship is a pretty good one. It does have the flaws you pointed out, but it's an overall enjoyable action romp with some really touching scenes and some good character dynamics thrown in.
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
- Thread starter Shatnertage
- Start date
Must refuse to spoil something. The Ship is a pretty good one. It does have the flaws you pointed out, but it's an overall enjoyable action romp with some really touching scenes and some good character dynamics thrown in.
Weyoun's female counterpart apparently.
ditto love the episode
Fun fact about "The Ship," Kilana was originally going to be Eris, the first Vorta we ever saw, and who hadn't been seen since the Season 2 finale, "The Jem'Hadar." This was the second time they tried to bring the character back, the first time being in Season 3's opener, "The Search." However, in both instances, the actress was unavailable, so rather than recast they created entirely new Vorta characters.
To be fair, the TNG crew were stationed on the flagship of the Federation - essentially the best of the best, and thus probably capable of handling nearly any situation.
Changelings, Klingons. Good ep. all around.
As for Kira/Bashir: makes sense they had chemistry -- esp. regarding the baby.
I loved "The Ship"
Regarding "The Ship" - one thing that i thought was a little contrived was the Worf/O'Brien argument over their injured crew-mate.
Worf's attitude that he should have been told he was going to die did not ring true to me. Worf had been around humans for decades. He had been with them in combat and seen how they fear death.
He was also a trained Starfleet officer. Worf should have known that the man would want to be comforted at that time - not told the blunt truth. A Klingon warrior may welcome death in honorable combat, but a human soldier wants to go home to his family.
Regarding "The Ship" - one thing that i thought was a little contrived was the Worf/O'Brien argument over their injured crew-mate.
Worf's attitude that he should have been told he was going to die did not ring true to me. Worf had been around humans for decades. He had been with them in combat and seen how they fear death.
He was also a trained Starfleet officer. Worf should have known that the man would want to be comforted at that time - not told the blunt truth. A Klingon warrior may welcome death in honorable combat, but a human soldier wants to go home to his family.
One minor detail I like about The Ship; they actually make an effort to show a multi-species Starfleet that doesn't just rely on the odd Vulcan or Bolian. They have a Benzite and a Tiburonian instead. I liked that.
I passed a Klingon today, heading into a strip club. He was...
"Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Place"
This might be my favorite episode yet! Absolutely loved it!
I liked how they had both a Cyrano thing going on and, at the same time, a Pygmalion thing, as Worf teaches Quark how to act Klingon. Very clever.
This should have been a dreadful episode--not just a Ferengi comedy, but a Ferengi Klingon comedy. But it was outstanding, and even better than "The House of Quark." Quark isn't just greedy with disgusting physical traits here--he's a risk-taker and a lover, and one of the most complete characters on the show.
Worf, on the other hand, continues to be stodgy, dour, and humorless. As my wife put it, "All these Klingons have sticks up their ass." Well, as long as it's not a batleth I guess it isn't so bad. The guy who played Tumek, Grilka's advisor guy, was pretty awesome, though. I liked when Worf came in, apologized sotto voce to Morn, knocked Morn off his stool and started waving his dick around. Tumek's just like, "Bro, cool it. She ain't into you."
I don't get why they made it out like Worf was a noob with Klingon women. After all, he managed to impregnate Kh'leyr. True, she's half-Klingon and not the most traditional Klingon, but that should count for something. But I like how Worf rose to Tumek's challenge. I thought the payoff was going to be Worf revealing that he really was the consummate Klingon suitor, but we got something much different.
Quark had a few moments that made me laugh hysterically. One of them was "War? What is it good for? If you ask me, absolutely nothing." Priceless. And his extemporaneous speech was great, too.
We had a love quadrangle here: Quark's had the hots for Dax for five years but now is chasing Grilka, Worf is in love with Grilka who won't talk to him but needs Quark's help, while Dax has designs on Worf. Make sense?
Then we've got a love triangle (of sorts) between the battling O'Briens and Keiko. They did a good job of building that up within the episode, and it's almost a taboo topic for Trek, since there's more than a hint of potential marital infidelity here.
When Odo's teasing Kira about "Miles," he looks and acts like a big cat--there's something very feline about his performance there.
And I liked how they progressed from footrubs to backrubs to full body massages, to "I wouldn't mind spending three weeks in Ireland with you." And the discomfort of both Kira and Miles and Keiko kept trying to push them together...she's not the most observant woman, is she? Or maybe she's just got a greater faith in Miles than he has in himself.
Now I'd like to ask an honest question: Anyone else find this a slightly more subtle case of Trek writers' weird Irish...thing? Miles' mom is, apparently, constantly pregnant, and all of Federation medical science can't help her--only hard-working Mr. O'Brien's footrubs can. And didn't the Bizarro Irish woman in "Up the Long Ladder" want a footrub from Riker? Is foot fetishism a lot bigger in Ireland than it is over here? Or was this just some freak side-effect of the Eugenics Wars? It just seems like every other nationality on Trek is pretty with-it, but the writers always write about Ireland like it's stuck in the 18th century. I wouldn't call it offensive, but it strikes me as kind of patronizing.
For a contrast, look at how they handle Sisko's origin. He's got a few nods to his roots, like the Homestead Grays cap and the tribal art, but there's never a sense that he's not a part of the 24th century (even though his dad, like McCoy, is a Trek Southern Traditionalist). And I guess he also likes the dead sport of baseball, so maybe he's a bad example.
The scene where Kira describes the cottage is brilliant. One of my favorite moments from her, ever. Though I maintain that Miles could have killed their "romance" dead in its tracks, merely, by taking his shirt off in a well-lit room.
Back to the A-story: with Worf's help, Quark defeats Grilka's boytoy bodyguard and wins her heart. And Dax is able to finally make Worf see that she doesn't have cranial ridges, but she's no slouch herself.
The last scene, with both couples being treated for injuries, was about as funny as domestic violence can get. Or does rough but consensual sex not count?
This was a great, funny, well-done episode. One of my top ten so far, easily.
"Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Place"
This might be my favorite episode yet! Absolutely loved it!
I liked how they had both a Cyrano thing going on and, at the same time, a Pygmalion thing, as Worf teaches Quark how to act Klingon. Very clever.
This should have been a dreadful episode--not just a Ferengi comedy, but a Ferengi Klingon comedy. But it was outstanding, and even better than "The House of Quark." Quark isn't just greedy with disgusting physical traits here--he's a risk-taker and a lover, and one of the most complete characters on the show.
Worf, on the other hand, continues to be stodgy, dour, and humorless. As my wife put it, "All these Klingons have sticks up their ass." Well, as long as it's not a batleth I guess it isn't so bad. The guy who played Tumek, Grilka's advisor guy, was pretty awesome, though. I liked when Worf came in, apologized sotto voce to Morn, knocked Morn off his stool and started waving his dick around. Tumek's just like, "Bro, cool it. She ain't into you."
I don't get why they made it out like Worf was a noob with Klingon women. After all, he managed to impregnate Kh'leyr. True, she's half-Klingon and not the most traditional Klingon, but that should count for something. But I like how Worf rose to Tumek's challenge. I thought the payoff was going to be Worf revealing that he really was the consummate Klingon suitor, but we got something much different.
Quark had a few moments that made me laugh hysterically. One of them was "War? What is it good for? If you ask me, absolutely nothing." Priceless. And his extemporaneous speech was great, too.
We had a love quadrangle here: Quark's had the hots for Dax for five years but now is chasing Grilka, Worf is in love with Grilka who won't talk to him but needs Quark's help, while Dax has designs on Worf. Make sense?
Then we've got a love triangle (of sorts) between the battling O'Briens and Keiko. They did a good job of building that up within the episode, and it's almost a taboo topic for Trek, since there's more than a hint of potential marital infidelity here.
When Odo's teasing Kira about "Miles," he looks and acts like a big cat--there's something very feline about his performance there.
And I liked how they progressed from footrubs to backrubs to full body massages, to "I wouldn't mind spending three weeks in Ireland with you." And the discomfort of both Kira and Miles and Keiko kept trying to push them together...she's not the most observant woman, is she? Or maybe she's just got a greater faith in Miles than he has in himself.
Now I'd like to ask an honest question: Anyone else find this a slightly more subtle case of Trek writers' weird Irish...thing? Miles' mom is, apparently, constantly pregnant, and all of Federation medical science can't help her--only hard-working Mr. O'Brien's footrubs can. And didn't the Bizarro Irish woman in "Up the Long Ladder" want a footrub from Riker? Is foot fetishism a lot bigger in Ireland than it is over here? Or was this just some freak side-effect of the Eugenics Wars? It just seems like every other nationality on Trek is pretty with-it, but the writers always write about Ireland like it's stuck in the 18th century. I wouldn't call it offensive, but it strikes me as kind of patronizing.
For a contrast, look at how they handle Sisko's origin. He's got a few nods to his roots, like the Homestead Grays cap and the tribal art, but there's never a sense that he's not a part of the 24th century (even though his dad, like McCoy, is a Trek Southern Traditionalist). And I guess he also likes the dead sport of baseball, so maybe he's a bad example.
The scene where Kira describes the cottage is brilliant. One of my favorite moments from her, ever. Though I maintain that Miles could have killed their "romance" dead in its tracks, merely, by taking his shirt off in a well-lit room.
Back to the A-story: with Worf's help, Quark defeats Grilka's boytoy bodyguard and wins her heart. And Dax is able to finally make Worf see that she doesn't have cranial ridges, but she's no slouch herself.
The last scene, with both couples being treated for injuries, was about as funny as domestic violence can get. Or does rough but consensual sex not count?
This was a great, funny, well-done episode. One of my top ten so far, easily.
What is it about Grilka that her presence turns the stomach-churning threat of Ferengi-Klingon hijinks into something actually high quality?
^ Its seems that both Klingon and Cardassian females bring out the best in a Ferengi, both in terms of episodes and personal character.
So you like this one, huh? It's one of my faves but I don't think I've ever seen anyone else put it in their top 10. That said, there's another episode right around the corner that's very similar, but is quite possibly the worst episode in all of 7 seasons of DS9.
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift...
"Nor the Battle to the Strong"
I can't help but like an episode that quotes Ecclesiastes in its title--it's my favorite book of the Bible and one that always helps to knock the grin off my face.
And this is a serious episode, which I love just as much although in a different way than yesterday's comic love farce. As I put it to my wife, "They're really kicking the shit of out Jake." Poor kid.
We start with him eager for action and looking forward to being in battle. Then they actually get there and its bloody, chaotic, and disturbing. Jake becomes an orderly.
There's a brief comic interlude when we learn that Quarktajino failed its early focus group testing. And that replicators can't make decaf.
True fact: My wife said "Rental?" at the exact same second that Kira and Dax did. Hysterical.
Cirroc Lofton really knocked it out of the park (baseball!) in this episode. It seems that in five years he's got to do real acting for a big chunk of the episode...once or maybe twice, since Tony Todd played Jake for much of "The Visitor." He's always been good in his moments, but he proved here that he can carry an episode.
And I really liked the Bashir I saw here--very ballsy guy. I wish we saw more of him doing this kind of stuff.
There's a lot of good writing here: Jake's "cowardice" is foreshadowed by the guy who shot himself in the foot, and is contrasted with Burke, the guy who sacrificed himself to save his unit. The way the episode is shot you can really feel what a nightmare this is for Jake.
Captain Sisko gets some good stuff, too, though Brooks still mixes in the Crazy Sisko looks every now and then. I liked the scene with Odo, particularly, even though by the end Odo looked more concerned about Jake than Sisko himself.
In the end, Jake becomes a hero inadvertently. Instead of accepting that, he writes a confessional piece. I LOVED the look on Bashir's face as he was reading it, and Sisko's final words brought it home.
This was a great episode that took some risks and went beyond the usual self-evident nostrums (War is Bad!) and showed us, exactly, how awful war was for a single character.
They probably should have run this at the end of season 4. With a cease-fire in place and the whole war now proven to have been ginned up by the Founders, why exactly are the Klingons attacking, outside of boredom or stupidity? But that's beside the point, because this was a great episode.
"Nor the Battle to the Strong"
I can't help but like an episode that quotes Ecclesiastes in its title--it's my favorite book of the Bible and one that always helps to knock the grin off my face.
And this is a serious episode, which I love just as much although in a different way than yesterday's comic love farce. As I put it to my wife, "They're really kicking the shit of out Jake." Poor kid.
We start with him eager for action and looking forward to being in battle. Then they actually get there and its bloody, chaotic, and disturbing. Jake becomes an orderly.
There's a brief comic interlude when we learn that Quarktajino failed its early focus group testing. And that replicators can't make decaf.
True fact: My wife said "Rental?" at the exact same second that Kira and Dax did. Hysterical.
Cirroc Lofton really knocked it out of the park (baseball!) in this episode. It seems that in five years he's got to do real acting for a big chunk of the episode...once or maybe twice, since Tony Todd played Jake for much of "The Visitor." He's always been good in his moments, but he proved here that he can carry an episode.
And I really liked the Bashir I saw here--very ballsy guy. I wish we saw more of him doing this kind of stuff.
There's a lot of good writing here: Jake's "cowardice" is foreshadowed by the guy who shot himself in the foot, and is contrasted with Burke, the guy who sacrificed himself to save his unit. The way the episode is shot you can really feel what a nightmare this is for Jake.
Captain Sisko gets some good stuff, too, though Brooks still mixes in the Crazy Sisko looks every now and then. I liked the scene with Odo, particularly, even though by the end Odo looked more concerned about Jake than Sisko himself.
In the end, Jake becomes a hero inadvertently. Instead of accepting that, he writes a confessional piece. I LOVED the look on Bashir's face as he was reading it, and Sisko's final words brought it home.
This was a great episode that took some risks and went beyond the usual self-evident nostrums (War is Bad!) and showed us, exactly, how awful war was for a single character.
They probably should have run this at the end of season 4. With a cease-fire in place and the whole war now proven to have been ginned up by the Founders, why exactly are the Klingons attacking, outside of boredom or stupidity? But that's beside the point, because this was a great episode.
Very good Jake-centric ep. I wouldn't be surprised to find out this episode drew its inspiration from "The Red Badge of Courage," by Stephen Crane, which had a similar message/plot.
Edited to add: Oooh, and according to Memory Alpha, I was right, it is based on that book, at least in part.
Edited to add: Oooh, and according to Memory Alpha, I was right, it is based on that book, at least in part.
Looking for par'Mach in all the Wrong Places is another enjoyable comedy episode. It has quite possibly my favorite line of the series....
Nor the Battle to the Strong is a good one, but I think it's at times overrated. It's nice that they gave Jake some development and Lofton does a great job with it. But, IMO, it sometimes goes into territory that's a little too dark and brooding - much like another war-heavy episode in Season Seven.
Nor the Battle to the Strong is a good one, but I think it's at times overrated. It's nice that they gave Jake some development and Lofton does a great job with it. But, IMO, it sometimes goes into territory that's a little too dark and brooding - much like another war-heavy episode in Season Seven.
Loved this ep. all the way around.
And now I've been assigned...
"The Assignment"
Nana Visitor had her baby, so she's not in this episode. Yay for her!
Not that it's a bad episode. They really do like to torture O'Brien, don't they? Here his wife is possessed by a pah-wraith, which we find out is a wormhole alien who got voted out of the wormhole. They live in fire caves.
When did Bajor become something out of Dungeons and Dragons? And does this mean that we'll get another episode set in a cave. I swear, in the future people either live in spaceships, space stations, or caves.
The interesting thing is that, playing an alien, Rosalind Chao has way more emotion and range than when she's playing a human. If your character's best and most memorable episode is when you're playing someone else, you might have a problem. But for the purposes of this episode she was really good, and that's what counts (for now).
As another Miles O'Brien mindfuck, you'd be hard-pressed to do better than this one.
And the B-story, Rom working for engineering, ran headlong into the A-story at the end.
Does anyone else wonder exactly why Rom walks the way he walks?
That's about all I can come up with here. Not a totally memorable episode, but interesting on its own terms.
"The Assignment"
Nana Visitor had her baby, so she's not in this episode. Yay for her!
Not that it's a bad episode. They really do like to torture O'Brien, don't they? Here his wife is possessed by a pah-wraith, which we find out is a wormhole alien who got voted out of the wormhole. They live in fire caves.
When did Bajor become something out of Dungeons and Dragons? And does this mean that we'll get another episode set in a cave. I swear, in the future people either live in spaceships, space stations, or caves.
The interesting thing is that, playing an alien, Rosalind Chao has way more emotion and range than when she's playing a human. If your character's best and most memorable episode is when you're playing someone else, you might have a problem. But for the purposes of this episode she was really good, and that's what counts (for now).
As another Miles O'Brien mindfuck, you'd be hard-pressed to do better than this one.
And the B-story, Rom working for engineering, ran headlong into the A-story at the end.
Does anyone else wonder exactly why Rom walks the way he walks?
That's about all I can come up with here. Not a totally memorable episode, but interesting on its own terms.
Oh, they'll get a lot of mileage out of that cave set yet.
I like The Assignment. It's not the best, or even one of them, but it's certainly above average. But then, I like the whole Prophets/Pah-Wraith angle. True, it's much more fantasy than science-fiction, but I don't have a problem with that.
As for how Rom walks, I think it's mostly a callback to how the Ferengi of early TNG walked. Either that, or it's just something the actor came up to make the character more "quirky."
As for how Rom walks, I think it's mostly a callback to how the Ferengi of early TNG walked. Either that, or it's just something the actor came up to make the character more "quirky."
Similar threads
