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Shatner speaks....

If you want to bring up De, then mention the incident where his dog died and Shatner cracked an insensitive joke about it, which cut De to the core.

So please let's not ignore the fact that Shatner can and has been a jerk, even to major costars.

(And as for the fans, dare I mention the "Get a life" sketch?)

I don't particularly like the insinuation that you're entitled to be aloof or obnoxious towards people as long as you perceive them to be peons in the workplace either. Especially in Hollywood, people get ahead by virtue of their relationships. One day the bit player could become a superstar. It pays to be nice to everyone.
Forgot about the dog bit. You're quite right, Shatner could be an insensitive tool bag at times, but consider this:

Unless there are other incidents that I have forgotten hearing/reading about over the years, that was the only one between them and I can't recall Kelley ever holding a life-long grudge with Shatner over it. I remember seeing him at a convention, probably around the time between TFF and TUC and he was extremely kind and gracious to all of his co-stars, something he was renowned for his entire career. If anyone made it look like they were a big happy family, it was Kelley - more so than even Roddenberry.

Shatner was considerably younger at the time, full of ambition and drive and, yes, "the star" - with all the trappings and foibles held therein. How many people does anyone know that didn't say something stupid on occasion, particularly in their youth? And, as the story goes, the way Kelley told the story, it did sound like he was trying to be a little amusing about it, referring to its running into a sprinkler head. The mental image conjured is one of an almost cartoonish nature, of an over-excitable Chihuahua careening head-first into a garden sprinkler. If it had lived, it would have been downright freakin' hysterical. Anyone with even the remotest kind of sense of humor would have had a hard time not cracking-wise over that, especially Shatner, who was renown for his almost uncontrollable and institutional joking and jibing.

True, Kelley didn't really want to have much to do with him for almost 2 years after that, but he never went on a public rampage against Shatner, constantly engaging in exuberant, almost gleeful, character assassination. He was a gentleman about it - and a consummate professional. A concept which, to this day, seems quite alien to Mr. Takei. Honestly, I don't know why Shatner hasn't tried suing him for slander and defamation of character. Probably doesn't want to give him more of a public platform to spew his bullshit. If so, probably the only winning move is not to play the game.

As for the dog thing, Kelley was said to have eventually forgiven him for the slip, and they had been close friends up until the time of his death.

As for the "get a life" sketch, only those for whom the message was intended take offense. I found it outlandishly funny, relevant and apropos, even at the gentle age of 16 when I first saw it. People who mercilessly obsess for years over Yeoman Rand's cabin number or Kirk's safe combination DO need to get a freakin' life! :lol:

Very well stated. The dog thing was a moment of crass humor where the recipient was not receptive to the joke. That happens, and we've all stuck our foot in our mouth on occasion. De eventually forgave Bill for the joke, and they were best friends, along with Leonard.

Also, the "Get A Life" sketch happened on Saturday Night Live, as a joke. If people are taking it seriously to the point of using it against Bill as some kind of ammo, then they are indeed the target audience of that quote.

The more George Takei pushes the feud, the less I like him, and I hate that, because I have many good reasons to like him, but this one trait is strong enough to override that. He needs to let it go.
 
It has been said over the years that the majority of the blame for much of this inter-personal venom between the cast members was enabled by the conventions. Each member of the cast had his/her groupies and fan clubs, each using the cons as a platform to express that admiration, playing up the perceived "importance" of each character on the show. Admiration eventually evolved into to resentment - "I should have had more air time than those other guys. I was just as important as them!", exacerbated by obsessive fans whispering in the actors' respective ears, alluding to that notion. When TNG came around, that made a point of giving more airtime to "second tier" cast making it a true ensemble, I'm sure that added insult to injury and fuel to the TOS fire that was already burning since the 70's.

Shatner was the highest-profile actor on the show and, ergo, received the lion's share of the criticism. Some of it was justified, yes, but spending almost 50 years of your lives on petty bickering is astonishing to me. He has also bent over backwards and gone out of his way to make amends, to genuinely try to understand how people perceived him, only to be spat in his face by some of them. Idiotic.

Please, George, for the love of All That Does Not Suck...
Let%20It%20Go_zpspo9c0jcx.jpg

+1000 for this. The conventions were George's Iago, and I don't think he ever realized it.
 
Sulu, Uhura, Chekov, & to a lesser extent, Scotty--were no more than "Talking Props" for TOS.

TOS is about The stories, The Enterprise, and Kirk/Spock/McCoy.

TOS is the most iconic of the versions of "Star Trek". In truth--the supporting casts of TNG, DS9 & VOY contained much better, 3-dimensional, fleshed out characters.

There is nothing much to Sulu, Uhura & Chekov. Those actors had the benefit of riding on the charasma, appeal of Shatner, Nimoy & Kelley. There's a reason their 3 names are in the opening. After cancellation, the conventions deluded Takei, Nichols & Koenig into believing they were as important. They weren't.

Takei is bitter, and taking a joke too far at once. He's found an Avenue to keep his name in the media. It's funny in this age of social media how people you put on a pedestal or admire, show their true colors. I always thought Takei to be classier than he has.proven to be.

THIS!!!
 
Shatner was the highest-profile actor on the show and, ergo, received the lion's share of the criticism. Some of it was justified, yes, but spending almost 50 years of your lives on petty bickering is astonishing to me. He has also bent over backwards and gone out of his way to make amends, to genuinely try to understand how people perceived him, only to be spat in his face by some of them. Idiotic.

We see the difference in how lives and careers are lived when one has a purpose; Shatner continued to work, get other series, high profile productions (ex. The Andersronville Trial), etc., while Takei--instead of actually trying to make the most out of his life as a performer--targeted one of the central reasons he ever had a voice post TOS. Ungrateful and pathetic.

But, hey...Takei had Supah Ninjas on Nickelodeon, so that's something...
 
Let it go, George, please. Life is too short to waste being bitter.

Despite what we've been told, I don't believe that Shatner is 1/3 the jerk that he's been made out to be.

I second that. When Leonard Nimoy died the media tried to paint Shatner as a jerk for not attending the funeral. Shatner did make his way but was too late due to a fundraiser he promised to go to. Still wasn't good enough for many people he continued to get hounded a couple weeks later.

The man has tried all kinds of stuff to be welcoming to fans and the media alike. He constantly posts on twitter now, while watching a favorite show he tweets and he also had a memorial chat with fans about Nimoy. He has opened up more than anyone should in his or any other profession.

That all said Shatner has taken some of the blame.....but as far as i am concerned he ahs more than made up for it.
 
With stories like the ones we hear about Shatner, it's always instructive to consider the source. The only people I've heard claiming first-hand knowledge of Shatner's alleged vileness are former work associates who seem bitter and jealous of his success and a few fans who have encountered him at a convention or restaurant or whatever and didn't think he was polite enough. (And some I've heard were just pissed that he wouldn't pretend he was their BFF.) :D
 
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You mean Capt. DePike? Wow, they really didn't expect people to be able to watch these episodes over and over again, did they?
 
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First off Warped....let me be clear I don't mean anything personally. If I come across as insulting to you (or anyone)...let me know....because I am not like that. But I do like debate...and have opinions like you. Unfortunately I am a poor communicator. Also...I spell poorly....sorry.

Despite what "fans" might like to think the majority of viewers (also known as fans) were tuning in to see Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock and not Lt. Sulu and Ensign Chekov.

You were and many others maybe. But not me - and I suspect many others judging by Takai's FB friend count. "Majority is speculation on your part. Kirk and Spock (the characters) were great influences in my life. But (certainly by the time the movies happened) I was looking for the "crew" which included Chekhov, Sulu, Uhura - and Scotty for sure! Star Trek was not Kirk alone. In fact, if I had to pick a "star" it was Nimoy. For many ladies who watch, it was Uhura. What the studio thought is irrelevant.....they do not get to make up the minds of fans.

The series and each successive film established what they were going to see and "fans" were okay with that because they kept tuning in and kept lining up for each film.
As a fan, if it had been Friday the 13th with a cameo of the Enterprise, I would have shown up and thrown my money at it. If it had been Friday the 13th with the Shatner/Kirk .....uh....maybe pass...maybe not. Fans may have been "ok" with something, but that doesn't mean it was preferred. That's a horrid way to judge opinions. The fact that someone offers me chocolate chip ice cream and I eat it doesn't mean I prefer it as a flavor. This in fact is an issue that Paramount has with the franchise. They don't actually understand the fans - they only understand their paradigm which precludes them from considering that Uhura could be more of a star for many than Kirk......after all....she is "second tier."

No, Shatner is not a doctor, but he can have an opinion, and he can express it as he did.
He *can* (and we all have our opinions) - that is fair. But he is speaking to fans. So should he? Should he contribute to that? It's crass to go into that deeply and emphatically. It leave a bad taste to see the arguing.

And....

He's complaining in the video (we watched the same one right?) that he wasn't invited to something he wouldn't show up for anyways because he doesn't even know the person and thinks he's crazy and he has made it clear before (even though he apparently was invited).

When folks say Takai has a problem because he is upset that someone he seems to not like won't show up for events, I get that - and agree he has issues - you invite someone you openly bag on and are upset they don't come??? Why is it that when Shatner does it he is defended? Complains we wasn't invited to a party he wouldn't attend???? I don't get that....other than he's a prima donnald.

Takei's behaviour over the years is obsessive and appears indicative of some unusual compulsion. And Shatner's one or two rather mild responses is nowhere near of the same magnitude as Takei's incessant behaviour.
I think they are both nuts to some degree and I will not let the Shat man off the hook regardless of how much I like "Kirk".

So maybe Takei should talk to someone professional because otherwise he can't seem to get over something from decades ago and shut the fuck up about it.
Here we can agree. As long as you realize Bill is just as much an attention....erm...Hooker.

This conversation is interesting and I have learned a lot. But unfortunately with that enlightenment my opinion of both Takai and Kirk...and ST for that matter - has been degraded. Which is sad. It really was what pushed me to make certain choices that shaped my life in positive ways. *shrug*
 
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All of us has been a jerk at some time or other even if it's usually without meaning to.

But that's Shatner's modus operandi. He pisses people off because he isn't sensitive enough to know what will wind up pissing someone off, like sloughing off the death of a beloved pet. Not everyone acts this way. They get to know their friends enough to avoid hurting their feelings.

That doesn't mean Takei holding onto a grudge is right either. But we shouldn't view this as a right/wrong issue. Shatner has his own personality flaws which are genuine.

If anyone made it look like they were a big happy family, it was Kelley - more so than even Roddenberry.
That says more about Kelley than it does Shatner. Need I remind you of the time Shatner couldn't remember Walter's name in that awful promotional event for Trek V?

There are a bunch of anecdotes like this that shows that Shatner is egotistical and insensitive. I mean, he himself admits it, and the Denny Crane character for Boston Legal was created as a self-parody! These are not admirable personality traits, no matter how numb and accepting we've gotten to boorish social behavior in the age of the internet.

I totally agree that Takei has taken the feud too far, but it doesn't in any way mean there was no reason for people to feel pissed off at this or that slight by Shatner, at least initially.
 
I've heard Shatner make comments on the Stern show (shortly after George and Brad's wedding) that suggest Shatner opposes gay marriage (and possibly homosexuality in general). Perhaps,
Shatner is a tad on the homophobic side and always has been even back when they first started working together.

I don't understand the need fans have of caring. I tune in to watch Kirk and Sulu (for example), not Shatner and Takei.
 
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