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SF and People of Color

Regarding Resident Evil 5 (which I haven't played), and black villains, one of the issues a critic of the RE5 game on another board brought up an interesting idea which I'll paraphrase here. He noted that the blacks are mindless zombies but none are the brains behind the action. Whites are, which sort of implies whites are the brains and blacks are the brawn. The blacks have been stripped of their humanity and are now targets for largely white gamers.

I'm not too keen on the idea of indiscriminate slaughter of a mass of dark-skinned people, particularly 'mindless' masses of Africans particularly due the history of colonialism, but I think perhaps RE5 wouldn't get so much heat if they had black characters not just as mute participants but more actively a part of the storyline.
 
Regarding Resident Evil 5 (which I haven't played), and black villains, one of the issues a critic of the RE5 game on another board brought up an interesting idea which I'll paraphrase here. He noted that the blacks are mindless zombies but none are the brains behind the action. Whites are, which sort of implies whites are the brains and blacks are the brawn. The blacks have been stripped of their humanity and are now targets for largely white gamers.

I'm not too keen on the idea of indiscriminate slaughter of a mass of dark-skinned people, particularly 'mindless' masses of Africans particularly due the history of colonialism, but I think perhaps RE5 wouldn't get so much heat if they had black characters not just as mute participants but more actively a part of the storyline.
It does have a black side kick character. Also, that basically ignores the fact that the other 6 (maybe more) RE games have largely white zombies, with white people being the "brains" behind it, so what does that say? Fuck all is what.
 
I can't comment to greatly on RE5, but from watching my roommate play it a little, it appears that there are two playable characters--a white man (a carryover from previous games) and a black woman (a new character of some ambiguous African decent, IIRC). So, in that regard, the game is not entirely without black participants in the storyline.
 
N'Gai Croal's original comment is that it fits into classical racist stereotypes about Africans and African-Americans - a crazed black horde that threatens whiteness.

Similar imagery exists for Asians though, but doesn't get discussed much. Apparently in the early 1900s, the common image was that Asian men wanted to go around raping white women. Because that's just what we do. :lol:
 
N'Gai Croal's original comment is that it fits into classical racist stereotypes about Africans and African-Americans - a crazed black horde that threatens whiteness.

Similar imagery exists for Asians though, but doesn't get discussed much. Apparently in the early 1900s, the common image was that Asian men wanted to go around raping white women. Because that's just what we do. :lol:
Yep, and those sluts love it...

Stereotypes, stereotypes everywhere.
 
Well, I don't know. I mean, it's contemporaneous to early 20th century imagery sure... but if someone tried to do a remake of Birth of a Nation, you'd have the same - and I think legitimate - complaints.

I'm not saying RE5 = Birth of a Nation, I'm just saying that both can be at least linked to the same imagery used to demonize a particular race.
 
Well, I don't know. I mean, it's contemporaneous to early 20th century imagery sure... but if someone tried to do a remake of Birth of a Nation, you'd have the same - and I think legitimate - complaints.

I'm not saying RE5 = Birth of a Nation, I'm just saying that both can be at least linked to the same imagery used to demonize a particular race.

From what I hear there is some quite racist tribal types later in the game, so I'm not denying there may be racism within the game. But I do think to point to something fairly innocuous, like a Resident Evil game set in Africa having *gasp* black zombies, and say "OMG RACISM!!!" is pretty stupid, when the rest of the games are basically the same only killing white people.
 
But it's not the act of setting the game in Africa that Croal had a problem with. It's the imagery of a horde of angry Africans chasing down a white person.

The point being, if the game was set in America... like Washington DC or another city with a large African-American population, he'd have the same reaction.
 
But it's not the act of setting the game in Africa that Croal had a problem with. It's the imagery of a horde of angry Africans chasing down a white person.

The point being, if the game was set in America... like Washington DC or another city with a large African-American population, he'd have the same reaction.
But it's stupid, I mean in the other 6 they have a horde of angry white people chasing down a white person. It's the same game, just set in a place with a dark skinned population.

I'm sure he'd have a problem if it was a bunch of angry white people chasing the black person, but it's still the same fucking game as the rest of them with a different colour of paint. And as long as people make big stupid deals out of shit like this the longer the resentment carries on.
If they white person was running round shouting "I'm gunna kill me a nigger" while shooting them then sure go for it and complain. But if he's just being attacked by zombies... ya know sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, is what I suppose I'm trying to say.
 
I think we're going down a rabbit hole because we're arguing two different things... I'll just suggest watching Birth of a Nation if you have the free time.
 
I think we're going down a rabbit hole because we're arguing two different things... I'll just suggest watching Birth of a Nation if you have the free time.
I'm guessing you're saying it is that it's an outmoded way of looking at the world, and that makes it wrong that it's used this day in age, whether it's meant to be racist or not, it just is?
But I don't see how doing the same thing as before, just changing the characters from white to black makes it racist, even if it does call an outmoded view to mind... I guess it's another one of those things where I see intent as more important than whatever random image it may conjure in someone else's mind.
 
I think people have to aware of an image that's endemic to a culture.

I mean, if someone sells a stuffed monkey with an Obama sticker on it - even if that person just think it's a stuffed monkey that's fun and cute - someone is going to take that as a racist image because that was the language used to describe blacks.

Is it possible to disassociate the image from the original intent? Maybe?
I mean, surely there were lots of racist images used against the Irish by the English during the hundreds of years of occupation... do those images still have anti-Irish sentiment today? I don't know.
 
I think we're going down a rabbit hole because we're arguing two different things... I'll just suggest watching Birth of a Nation if you have the free time.
I'm guessing you're saying it is that it's an outmoded way of looking at the world, and that makes it wrong that it's used this day in age, whether it's meant to be racist or not, it just is?
But I don't see how doing the same thing as before, just changing the characters from white to black makes it racist, even if it does call an outmoded view to mind... I guess it's another one of those things where I see intent as more important than whatever random image it may conjure in someone else's mind.

I think it might tap into long-running racial stereotypes, fears, or ideas about blacks that have some people upset. I don't think that most critics automatically equated RE5 being in Africa as being racist per se, but there is a whole history of negative images of blacks in mass media (the aforementioned Birth of a Nation for starters, Tarzan movies, etc.) Minstrel shows were one of America's earliest forms of mass entertainment and their bread and butter were demeaning stereotypes that I personally feel haven't really gone away but have been repackaged. And RE5 seems, from what I've read about it, to drudge some of that stuff up.

If the RE franchise had perhaps did a better job using black or non-white characters earlier on and making them more integral to the games, and showing a variety of zombies in Africa because there are whites, Asians, etc. that live in Africa, it might have avoided this firestorm. As I said before, I would like to see more diversity among the black characters (and others too)-beyond just a sidekick. Have heroes and villains, show some complexity. As for the villains, show some smart human ones. Believe it or not, there are black/African scientists, for example. Not just a rumbling mass of black folks for the largely white audience to mow down. I don't think there has been a problem with white zombies because these games usually feature white heroes, so you get that kind of diversity.

Plus whites haven't had to contend with images of dehumanization like blacks and others have. At times there has been a tendency to lump all blacks together, esp. when one black person does something bad, and to see all black people like that. And blacks at times have been called on to answer for what another black person said or did. Whites can be individuals when they need to be, or work collectively when they want to. It's not so easy for blacks, particularly living in a majority white country, and I would contend it isn't for other non-whites. So stuff like RE5 can be a sore point because of its dehumanizing aspects.

I think that the people criticizing this game and other negative depictions have every right to. Because if they don't, it's going to continue and will get worse. And if they don't say anything, it might encourage some whites or others feel that 'these people' are really like that IMO or confirm the negative feelings some whites or others might harbor.
 
I think people have to aware of an image that's endemic to a culture.

I mean, if someone sells a stuffed monkey with an Obama sticker on it - even if that person just think it's a stuffed monkey that's fun and cute - someone is going to take that as a racist image because that was the language used to describe blacks.

Is it possible to disassociate the image from the original intent? Maybe?
I mean, surely there were lots of racist images used against the Irish by the English during the hundreds of years of occupation... do those images still have anti-Irish sentiment today? I don't know.

About disassociation, it's an interesting debate. I know that the use of the 'n-word' has been raging in the African-American community for quite some time. A few years ago I think a similar debate was going on regarding the 'b-word' among some women. I think it should be up to the group that was negatively impacted by words or imagery over how that stuff should be used or if the sting of it has been removed. I'm definitely opposed to the decision being made externally, particularly by the group that might've created the negative images or words to start with.

BTW, the New York Post did try to get away with using a monkey to depict Obama or one of his policies earlier this year and it sparked protest and a muted apology for Rupert Murdoch. Just this past week, a SC GOP official said an escaped gorilla from the Columbia Zoo was a relative of Michelle Obama. I don't believe this stuff was 'innocent', it was done on purpose. Just like the Obama bucks (food stamps with images of watermelon and fried chicken on them) that was innocently passed out during the campaign by GOP workers in California.
 
That's the problem - the images are still used in a racist context, so disassociation is almost impossible.
I mean, as long as someone somewhere says "nigger" in a way meant to invoke racist rhetoric, that word will always have racist connotations.

The thing with RE5 is that it was made by a Japanese company. Of course, Croal flippantly said that no one black worked on the game (and then met someone black who worked at Capcom USA :lol: ), but the point remains.
Much was made about the fact that in subsequent trailers and the game itself, suddenly the zombies were multi-ethnic.
Still, there was a scene in the game where a group of black "zombies" are about to "consume" a white woman... and a scene like that can't help but raise concern.

The thing is what comes around goes around - like I'm sure there's racist imagery used against whites in certain African countries nowadays (Nigeria, for one) that people will have to be sensitive about when producing media for Africa.

On the issue itself though, I do believe that it's just a case of Japanese designers being ignorant of racist images used in America... the say way why Americans probably don't understand why it's problematic to use a Chinese actress to play a Japanese role for audiences in China/Asia.
 
Firehawk,

I'm not so sure if its a case of Japanese producers simply being ignorant of negative images. Years ago when I took a film class in African-American cinema the professor discussed how the sambo and mammy salt shakers and other items were still being sold in the East. I remember talking with a graduate exchange student from China about Gone with the Wind, which she had seen and pretty much believed was a fairly accurate depiction of the Civil War era South. I told her more about the African-American experience as a counterbalance.

I think the Japanese and many Asians are seeing the same type of stuff, receiving the same type of overt or covert racial images and beliefs/assumptions that whites, blacks, and others do, and maybe their product reflects that.

I've read articles about how some Asians are getting operations to appear more Western and how in India, white skinned models are preferred and they are even going through the hassle of importing them in from Eastern Europe to achieve that 'perfect' look. So, it leads to me wonder if many Asians wish to emulate the style, dress, etc. of whites/Westerners, they might also take on some of the beliefs when it comes to views of blacks.

As for the black person working at CapCom, who knows what type of position it is, or if they have influence over the games. Also, I think there is a tendency, or a pressure, for blacks to be quiet, keep their heads down, and not be pegged as having an attitude or being a trouble maker which might impact how much they really say even if they did have some influence on the game. Then again, there might have been a black person, or black people working on the game who had no problem with it period. Black people aren't a monolith.

I don't know anything about Nigerian cinema but I am curious to know what type of anti-white images do you think are being depicted in those films?
 
Firehawk,

I'm not so sure if its a case of Japanese producers simply being ignorant of negative images. Years ago when I took a film class in African-American cinema the professor discussed how the sambo and mammy salt shakers and other items were still being sold in the East. I remember talking with a graduate exchange student from China about Gone with the Wind, which she had seen and pretty much believed was a fairly accurate depiction of the Civil War era South. I told her more about the African-American experience as a counterbalance.

I think the Japanese and many Asians are seeing the same type of stuff, receiving the same type of overt or covert racial images and beliefs/assumptions that whites, blacks, and others do, and maybe their product reflects that.

I've read articles about how some Asians are getting operations to appear more Western and how in India, white skinned models are preferred and they are even going through the hassle of importing them in from Eastern Europe to achieve that 'perfect' look. So, it leads to me wonder if many Asians wish to emulate the style, dress, etc. of whites/Westerners, they might also take on some of the beliefs when it comes to views of blacks.
All through Asia from Pakistan through the Philippines there is a definite light skin advantage. Some nations also wish their children has whiter features. A Filipino child with a straighter mestizo nose will be treated by his family as the anointed child. With most beauty products marketed proudly proclaiming their skin whitening properties. However surgery to Europeanize features is rare in Asia , first generation immigrants to the west being the main consumer of doc Niptuck. Youth culture in Japan through the global influence of hip hop is becoming more accepting of mixed African children left behind by workers and soldiers.
 
I don't know anything about Nigerian cinema but I am curious to know what type of anti-white images do you think are being depicted in those films?

To be honest, all of the Nollywood films I've say through (I took a class on depictions of Africa in cinema about a year ago) had production values so low, that any presumed racial message against whites (I didn't notice any) was probably lost. The financial model used to finance these films is so detrimental to the final product that I couldn't recommend any of them as anything outside of an academic exercise.
 
I look forward to the day in science fiction when black will not be asked to get back. When brown can stick around. When yellow can be mellow. When the red man can get a head man. When white will embrace what is right. Will all those who love science fiction say amen!
 
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