SF and People of Color

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

Kind of a double-standard since 'Dragonball' (and we Asians talk about it ) changed the ethnicity of the character...

??? Huh?

How so. I'm pretty sure Son Goku looks damn caucasian in the manga and anime. White/pink skin, large eyes. The guy's also an alien from space, born with a tail; in fact, the character he's based upon is literallly a monkey - so how does that equal Asian? The guy who played Son Goku was chosen to resemble the drawn character, and he indeed looks quite a bit like Son Goku.

In fact, the only character in Dragon Ball that looks somewhat Asian is Vegeta; he's got slanted eyes, because he's evil. His skin, however, is clearly white.

It's the schizophrenic part of Japanese culture. Slanted, thin eyes, even more so than with us, are heavily considered trademarks of evil people. And wide open eyes the true hallmarks of a good person. Result being, not a single manga and anime character EVER looks genuinely Asian, ALL of them look caucasian. The only ones who might look somewhat Asian, are ALL evil.

Fact is; Chi-Chi is Asian and that's pretty impressive and something you should consider yourself lucky for. If they had casted someone who looked like the drawn character she wouldn't be Asian either.

????Huh?

What? Huh?

(I don't think my post is that trivial....)

I actually already gave my thoughts about this above, however:

From your post, 3D Master I'm gathering that I should feel lucky that an Asian actress was cast in a role. Just like an African-American should feel lucky for getting a part in a film, no matter what part it is.

'Son Goku' to many is Asian, and could have been portrayed just as well by an Asian actor. However, they decided to have the character (and others) portrayed by a Caucasian actor.

Vegeta, Krillin, Goku look Asian. Yes, they're aliens, but they got Asian features.

Still, I understand the movie was poor anyhow.

So, based on your post, it just 'worked out' that the black characters all died gruesome deaths? (i.e. 'Whops! We killed all the black characters. Moving on...')

Looking at your smilies, I guess you're getting a little kick out of it....

That's it. I get off on black people dying. You got me figured out. I'm a Grand Wizard in hiding. Yeah, it did pretty much work out that the black characters (and no, not all of them) died. Circumstances dictated it. If Sterling Brown didn't already have series work, he'd have lived but they couldn't keep him so they killed off the character to create story. They also wanted to keep Charles Malik Whitfield, but he had a film role so they also killed him off in a blast by Lilith to create story since he wasn't available and they thought a death would serve the story better. When are we going to start thinking past race? That the characters happened to be cast with black actors was completely incidental. That so many were cast with black actors shows that the casting department of SPN is, in fact,color blind.

And yes, I laughed when they died. I also laughed when the white guy tripped over the beer bottle and landed throat first on a skewering fork drying tines up next to his sink because of the cursed rabbit's foot he stole; it tickled me pink when the white guy got tricked by the changeling and landed chest first on the moving chain saw in his garage, and I really got off on it when Dean pushed the white vampire's head under the moving chainsaw and sawed it right off. I guess I hate white guys, too. That's the point of SPN. Everybody dies, and isn't it great that Eric Kripke invites people of all genders and races to the party?

Okaaay...

If minorities want to be on sci-fi shows forcefully, then they should make their own.

How dare those 'minorities' ask to be represented just as equally as Caucasians...

Maybe separate water fountains....restrooms...

Hmmm, as for your idea:

Maybe we Asians can take over the Star Trek franchise and create Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway in our own image....bringing in a Caucasian or two (or even an African-American) to keep up the status quo.

*sigh*

It's also noteworthy that female lead characters aren't that uncommon anymore: Star Trek: Voyager, the afore-mentioned Dark Angel, Alias, Earth 2, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, Threshold, Fringe etc. You could perhaps make an argument that most female lead characters also happen to be very attractive. But I'd say that this aspect also plays a role in casting male roles nowadays.

Well, they're trying to get the male demographic...so they want their female leads to pull in those male viewers. (Being that those shows are sci-fi, and in a genre where it is male-dominated--for lack of another term--that's not too surprising).

Us girls are thrown a bone every now then. For example, the character Daniel Jackson, Cameron Mitchell...and others..

 

[Cartoonist]

Or maybe the folks who make these shows are just too insecure to cast more people of color, for fear that they might be diminished in the comparison. Maybe it's all just back-lash (or should I say Black-lash) for the sucessful blacks who went on to greater heights.

I was with you up to here. First of all, none of the people doing the casting are actually going to appear on the show, so there's no comparison happening; nor would there be any basis for a fear of being 'outshone', since good actors and bad actors come in every ethnicity. Resentment over succesful blacks doesn't seem at all likely, since, like I said, there's by and large no direct competition between casting/producers and that lot and the people actually onscreen.

I would've agreed with you here until a couple years ago when I moved to Hollywood, started hanging out with actors (nobody famous, just the average middle-lower middle class struggling type), and at parties & functions I've met casting directors, producers, etc. (again, on the lower rung of the ladder). I asked the question, and the answer didn't exactly surprise me.

There's a fear out there that demographics are changing and the growing minority audience (minorities will constitute a majority in just a few decades) is going to want to see more minorities on TV and film. They do not want anyone getting comfortable with the notion that majority-white casts and white-led casts don't have to be the standard on TV. The reason: more demand for minority faces could equal greater demand for minority casting agents and minority producers.

The current crop of casting agents, directors, etc. are myopic. A Mexican-American actress I know visited with a casting agent who considers herself to be one of the more progressive agents working today. Before the actress even opened her mouth, the first thing the casting agent said when meeting her was "So, how thick is your accent anyway?" (this actress was born here and speaks English with perfect diction). Then she asked "What type do you consider yourself to be?" The actress, who graduated from one of our top universities and worked as a professional in the PR industry for years, thought she was being modest when she said "Teacher, cop, or public defender." The casting agent didn't beat around the bush. She said "you look too indigenous. You're a maid or a nanny." Despite the "liberal Hollywood" canard politicians like to throw around, and despite the way people in the industry want to see themselves, Hollywood is one of the most culturally regressive business environments I've ever seen. It isn't advancing social change, it's chasing it and it's pretty far behind. This is how myopic so many of the people involved in casting are, and that's why they're afraid to give minorities an equal chance to succeed (and won't even audition minorities for most roles that don't explicitly call for a minority actor).

The current field of suits don't want to see their career prospects diminished by an influx of competition that'll be seen as "the future." One agent I spoke to said "all you have to do is look at the LAUSD (our public school district)." By that she was referring to how non spanish-speaking teachers have seen their career mobility diminish because Spanish-speakers have become more desirable.

The usual excuse given for the monoblepsic casting in many of these shows is that the audience has such stunning dearth of sympathetic imagination that they can only relate to people 'like them' , and apparently skin colour is an aspect of such similitude (so, in the case of genre fans, predominantly white, young/middle-aged males). Frankly, I would hope that this is utter crock,

It is. Many of them actually believe it for whatever reason, but for the ones who know it's BS, it's still a useful fiction they perpetuate for the reasons I touched on above.

but I imagine that the casting people aren't all secret Klansmen and actually have statistics and research to back this up.

It's a chicken and egg situation and they know it. Until you see a major show like CSI with a minority LEAD and can compare its ratings to another big network show, the ratings don't prove anything. They'll tell you minority leads bring in poor ratings, but they only cast minority leads on shows that are about minority families. And most of those, since the Cosby Show and Fresh Prince went off the air, have sucked (nobody seemed to have any trouble identifying with Heathcliff Huxtable or Will Smith, though).

So we can fault the casting people for general cowardice, but we also need to fault the large part of the audience that apparently remains mired in the 1950s (not that anybody would ever self-identify as such).

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I won't fault the audience until there's a high quality show with minority leads that can't gain any traction because whites won't watch. That hasn't ever happened. So until then, I think the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the casting directors and the producers, directors and writers with whom they work, and with the networks that don't push them to be more relevant.

 

[3D Master]

Kind of a double-standard since 'Dragonball' (and we Asians talk about it ) changed the ethnicity of the character...

??? Huh?

How so. I'm pretty sure Son Goku looks damn caucasian in the manga and anime. White/pink skin, large eyes. The guy's also an alien from space, born with a tail; in fact, the character he's based upon is literallly a monkey - so how does that equal Asian? The guy who played Son Goku was chosen to resemble the drawn character, and he indeed looks quite a bit like Son Goku.

In fact, the only character in Dragon Ball that looks somewhat Asian is Vegeta; he's got slanted eyes, because he's evil. His skin, however, is clearly white.

It's the schizophrenic part of Japanese culture. Slanted, thin eyes, even more so than with us, are heavily considered trademarks of evil people. And wide open eyes the true hallmarks of a good person. Result being, not a single manga and anime character EVER looks genuinely Asian, ALL of them look caucasian. The only ones who might look somewhat Asian, are ALL evil.

Fact is; Chi-Chi is Asian and that's pretty impressive and something you should consider yourself lucky for. If they had casted someone who looked like the drawn character she wouldn't be Asian either.

????Huh?

What? Huh?

(I don't think my post is that trivial....)

I actually already gave my thoughts about this above, however:

From your post, 3D Master I'm gathering that I should feel lucky that an Asian actress was cast in a role. Just like an African-American should feel lucky for getting a part in a film, no matter what part it is.

'Son Goku' to many is Asian, and could have been portrayed just as well by an Asian actor. However, they decided to have the character (and others) portrayed by a Caucasian actor.

Vegeta, Krillin, Goku look Asian. Yes, they're aliens, but they got Asian features.

Uh... again, what Asian features? Goku has no Asian features whatsoever. Krillin similarly, has no Asian whatsoever. He maybe the monk in an Asian religion - well, he used to be - but that doesn't make HIM Asian. A Caucasian can be a monk in Asian religion; religions are not restricted to race.

Vegeta, like I said, is the only one who has a tiny bit of a hint of Asian features, and that's his eyes; which I already explained. His skin, however, as I also already explained is white, it's Caucasian skin. There isn't a single character in all of Dragon Ball - and virtually any anime - that has Asian skin tones. All skin tones of humans are either that of black people (few, few, few and far between) or Caucasian.

I would like you to explain to me, what Asian features they have, because I don't see 'em. Which leads me to believe, you look at them with extreme bias; you think of them as Asian, so you supply them Asian features they don't have.

 

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

??? Huh?

How so. I'm pretty sure Son Goku looks damn caucasian in the manga and anime. White/pink skin, large eyes. The guy's also an alien from space, born with a tail; in fact, the character he's based upon is literallly a monkey - so how does that equal Asian? The guy who played Son Goku was chosen to resemble the drawn character, and he indeed looks quite a bit like Son Goku.

In fact, the only character in Dragon Ball that looks somewhat Asian is Vegeta; he's got slanted eyes, because he's evil. His skin, however, is clearly white.

It's the schizophrenic part of Japanese culture. Slanted, thin eyes, even more so than with us, are heavily considered trademarks of evil people. And wide open eyes the true hallmarks of a good person. Result being, not a single manga and anime character EVER looks genuinely Asian, ALL of them look caucasian. The only ones who might look somewhat Asian, are ALL evil.

Fact is; Chi-Chi is Asian and that's pretty impressive and something you should consider yourself lucky for. If they had casted someone who looked like the drawn character she wouldn't be Asian either.

????Huh?

What? Huh?

(I don't think my post is that trivial....)

I actually already gave my thoughts about this above, however:

From your post, 3D Master I'm gathering that I should feel lucky that an Asian actress was cast in a role. Just like an African-American should feel lucky for getting a part in a film, no matter what part it is.

'Son Goku' to many is Asian, and could have been portrayed just as well by an Asian actor. However, they decided to have the character (and others) portrayed by a Caucasian actor.

Vegeta, Krillin, Goku look Asian. Yes, they're aliens, but they got Asian features.

Uh... again, what Asian features? Goku has no Asian features whatsoever. Krillin similarly, has no Asian whatsoever. He maybe the monk in an Asian religion - well, he used to be - but that doesn't make HIM Asian. A Caucasian can be a monk in Asian religion; religions are not restricted to race.

Vegeta, like I said, is the only one who has a tiny bit of a hint of Asian features, and that's his eyes; which I already explained. His skin, however, as I also already explained is white, it's Caucasian skin. There isn't a single character in all of Dragon Ball - and virtually any anime - that has Asian skin tones. All skin tones of humans are either that of black people (few, few, few and far between) or Caucasian.

I would like you to explain to me, what Asian features they have, because I don't see 'em. Which leads me to believe, you look at them with extreme bias; you think of them as Asian, so you supply them Asian features they don't have.

Well, 3D Master maybe you have a stereotypical, blanket view of how Asians look. And, you seem to base everything on skin tones....

That's like pointing to a light-skinned African-American and claiming that individual is not 'black' because of his or her skin tone. Or, in the case of anime, a character isn't 'black' because he or she doesn't have prominent lips...or other stereotypical features associated with black or dark-skinned individuals.

Nevertheless, the only rationalizations have come primarily from white fanboys online over the casting of a white actor for character(s) that could have went to an Asian actor.

I believe actor Leonardo DiCaprio was to produce a live-action 'Akira.' Judging from your comments, I believe you would have rationalized those characters being portrayed by white actors (Japanese names intact).
As I mentioned in my earlier post, it's interesting when there is a double-standard with you have actors of color portraying characters that whites believed should have been portrayed by white actors...i.e. Ving Rhames as Kojak, Will Smith as Jim West, Michael Duncan Clarke as Kingpin, or Halle Berry as Catwoman. (Of course, if the films were up to par, there probably wouldn't have been any outcry).

 

[3D Master]

Uh... again, what Asian features? Goku has no Asian features whatsoever. Krillin similarly, has no Asian whatsoever. He maybe the monk in an Asian religion - well, he used to be - but that doesn't make HIM Asian. A Caucasian can be a monk in Asian religion; religions are not restricted to race.

Vegeta, like I said, is the only one who has a tiny bit of a hint of Asian features, and that's his eyes; which I already explained. His skin, however, as I also already explained is white, it's Caucasian skin. There isn't a single character in all of Dragon Ball - and virtually any anime - that has Asian skin tones. All skin tones of humans are either that of black people (few, few, few and far between) or Caucasian.

I would like you to explain to me, what Asian features they have, because I don't see 'em. Which leads me to believe, you look at them with extreme bias; you think of them as Asian, so you supply them Asian features they don't have.

Well, 3D Master maybe you have a stereotypical, blanket view of how Asians look. And, you seem to base everything on skin tones....

Huh? I have a stereotypical blanket view? Only if the stereotypical blanket view is the correct view of Asians. Please, find me one picture of a 100% Asian - not of mixed race - that has a skin-color and tone that comes even close to a Caucasian skin-color and tone. You'll find none. Not even Latin folks who are officially Caucasian come anywhere close to an Asian skin-color and tone.

That's like pointing to a light-skinned African-American and claiming that individual is not 'black' because of his or her skin tone. Or, in the case of anime, a character isn't 'black' because he or she doesn't have prominent lips...or other stereotypical features associated with black or dark-skinned individuals.

Even the lightest of the light-skinned Africans - those who are 100% not of mixed race African - will come nowhere close to even the darkest Caucasian. So no, such a claim would not be made, and was not made by me. (Unless one of course, one can show that the lighting of skin color is a new evolutionary trait to adapt to the climate of America - much like Native Americans who came to America from Asia gained the reddish skin color. The result would be a brand new race that is evolving in front of our eyes, and it'd be up to geneticists and other scientific experts to say when they've lost so much they can no longer be considered "black" but something new altogether.)

Nevertheless, the only rationalizations have come primarily from white fanboys online over the casting of a white actor for character(s) that could have went to an Asian actor.

??? What, white fanboys who wanted an Asian actor or not?

Because if you mean the former your lumping me in with them; and I would like to know again which Asian characteristics Son Goku has, because he doesn't have any.

I believe actor Leonardo DiCaprio was to produce a live-action 'Akira.' Judging from your comments, I believe you would have rationalized those characters being portrayed by white actors (Japanese names intact).

Akira is set in Tokyo in Japan.

Dragon Ball is set on an Alien Earth that has no landmasses in common with our Earth, has talking animals - one as the president, dinosaurs, aliens living on it as Earth's god, and the main character is a crash-landed alien - with not a single hint of Asian features drawn in any incarnation - which is based upon an original character that is literally a monkey - not a human with long side burns to vaguely hint at monkey hair, but A MONKEY.

Hello!

As I mentioned in my earlier post, it's interesting when there is a double-standard with you have actors of color portraying characters that whites believed should have been portrayed by white actors...i.e. Ving Rhames as Kojak, Will Smith as Jim West, Michael Duncan Clarke as Kingpin, or Halle Berry as Catwoman. (Of course, if the films were up to par, there probably wouldn't have been any outcry).

Uh... what double standard?

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

A Mexican-American actress I know visited with a casting agent who considers herself to be one of the more progressive agents working today. Before the actress even opened her mouth, the first thing the casting agent said when meeting her was "So, how thick is your accent anyway?" (this actress was born here and speaks English with perfect diction). Then she asked "What type do you consider yourself to be?" The actress, who graduated from one of our top universities and worked as a professional in the PR industry for years, thought she was being modest when she said "Teacher, cop, or public defender." The casting agent didn't beat around the bush. She said "you look too indigenous. You're a maid or a nanny."

Wow. I had heard that Hollywood is still backward when it comes to casting minorities, but that story was quite eye-opening.

 

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

Uh... again, what Asian features? Goku has no Asian features whatsoever. Krillin similarly, has no Asian whatsoever. He maybe the monk in an Asian religion - well, he used to be - but that doesn't make HIM Asian. A Caucasian can be a monk in Asian religion; religions are not restricted to race.

Vegeta, like I said, is the only one who has a tiny bit of a hint of Asian features, and that's his eyes; which I already explained. His skin, however, as I also already explained is white, it's Caucasian skin. There isn't a single character in all of Dragon Ball - and virtually any anime - that has Asian skin tones. All skin tones of humans are either that of black people (few, few, few and far between) or Caucasian.

I would like you to explain to me, what Asian features they have, because I don't see 'em. Which leads me to believe, you look at them with extreme bias; you think of them as Asian, so you supply them Asian features they don't have.

Well, 3D Master maybe you have a stereotypical, blanket view of how Asians look. And, you seem to base everything on skin tones....

Huh? I have a stereotypical blanket view? Only if the stereotypical blanket view is the correct view of Asians. Please, find me one picture of a 100% Asian - not of mixed race - that has a skin-color and tone that comes even close to a Caucasian skin-color and tone. You'll find none. Not even Latin folks who are officially Caucasian come anywhere close to an Asian skin-color and tone.



Even the lightest of the light-skinned Africans - those who are 100% not of mixed race African - will come nowhere close to even the darkest Caucasian. So no, such a claim would not be made, and was not made by me. (Unless one of course, one can show that the lighting of skin color is a new evolutionary trait to adapt to the climate of America - much like Native Americans who came to America from Asia gained the reddish skin color. The result would be a brand new race that is evolving in front of our eyes, and it'd be up to geneticists and other scientific experts to say when they've lost so much they can no longer be considered "black" but something new altogether.)

Then you haven't been on this Earth long enough, or been around people of different ethnicities. There are various 'dark' Caucasians who are mistaken for mixed race 'blacks'...and there are mixed race blacks who are, or were thought of as 'white'...i.e. Jennifer Beals, or Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey was thought by some whites as 'full white' during her early years...even though she has some 'Afrocentric' features.

As for Asians, there are the Akita girls in Japan (although, I think they're not so much in existence now, according to a Japanese acquaintance). We have different skin tones, anyhow.

Latinos/Hispanics are the same with their different features.

As for the other parts of your post, I believe I've already answered your points previously; and I don't wish to go around in circles. Too, I think we're getting a bit off topic.

*
​

To the Cartoonist:

I meant to comment on your post. I thought that was interesting, and not surprising.

 

[Neroon]

Too, I think we're getting a bit off topic.

I was starting to think the same thing.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I didn't realize that Mariah Carey isn't white until I'd been listening to her for years.

 

[Harvey]

Until you see a major show like CSI with a minority LEAD and can compare its ratings to another big network show, the ratings don't prove anything.

I don't disagree with you one bit, but CSI recently made Larry Fishburne its lead. The only reason I know this is because I watched the sci-fi themed episode that aired a few weeks ago, can't say I've ever watched.

Excellent and thoughtful post all the same, though.

 

[dru]

Do white viewers relate better to white actors? I'd wager they do, even if they don't realize it.

Advertising studies show whites generally respond the same regardless of actors' ethnicity in TV spots while blacks and Hispanics respond best to their own ethinic groups.

 

[3D Master]

Well, 3D Master maybe you have a stereotypical, blanket view of how Asians look. And, you seem to base everything on skin tones....

Huh? I have a stereotypical blanket view? Only if the stereotypical blanket view is the correct view of Asians. Please, find me one picture of a 100% Asian - not of mixed race - that has a skin-color and tone that comes even close to a Caucasian skin-color and tone. You'll find none. Not even Latin folks who are officially Caucasian come anywhere close to an Asian skin-color and tone.

Even the lightest of the light-skinned Africans - those who are 100% not of mixed race African - will come nowhere close to even the darkest Caucasian. So no, such a claim would not be made, and was not made by me. (Unless one of course, one can show that the lighting of skin color is a new evolutionary trait to adapt to the climate of America - much like Native Americans who came to America from Asia gained the reddish skin color. The result would be a brand new race that is evolving in front of our eyes, and it'd be up to geneticists and other scientific experts to say when they've lost so much they can no longer be considered "black" but something new altogether.)

Then you haven't been on this Earth long enough, or been around people of different ethnicities. There are various 'dark' Caucasians who are mistaken for mixed race 'blacks'...and there are mixed race blacks who are, or were thought of as 'white'...i.e. Jennifer Beals, or Mariah Carey. Mariah Carey was thought by some whites as 'full white' during her early years...even though she has some 'Afrocentric' features.

Yeah, hold on a minute; going upstairs and re-reading my post, hmmhmm.

Ah, yes, oh, look, those NOT of mixed race, that are 100% of one race. And what's your reply?

Mixed races this, mixed race that...

Brilliant.

But not really.

As for Asians, there are the Akita girls in Japan (although, I think they're not so much in existence now, according to a Japanese acquaintance). We have different skin tones, anyhow.

??? I've looked up "Akita girls" which seems to be a clothing brand. The only picture of a girl on there is so far away from Caucasian it isn't even funny.

Latinos/Hispanics are the same with their different features.

None of whom, come anywhere close to being Asian.

As for the other parts of your post, I believe I've already answered your points previously; and I don't wish to go around in circles. Too, I think we're getting a bit off topic.

You believe wrong. I'm still waiting on all the Asian features the drawn Goku is supposed to have. You claim he has them, it shouldn't thus be so hard to name them. I'm still waiting on them. If you can't name them, I must conclude you don't know any either; and my assertion that Son Goku doesn't have any Asian features remains unchallenged.

 

[Neroon]

Simmer down, folks. This has been a good, heck... necessary, topic of discussion. However, it still needs to stay firmly grounded in science fiction & fantasy.

 

[Hoshi_Mayweather]

^^^

To get back on track, per Neroon:

I just got in from seeing the new 'Star Trek' film.

Now, THAT's how to showcase SF and People of Color....

You had different 'human' ethnicities portraying Romulans, Vulcans and members of Starfleet; the crew of the ENT each had something to do....and that ENT crew, as we all know, is a diverse group themselves...(and the film portrays them all as, well, badasses...lol)

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Do white viewers relate better to white actors? I'd wager they do, even if they don't realize it.

I'd wager they don't. Strongly wager. Gee, I'm white and I much prefer DS9 with the black lead over TNG with the white Englishman lead. Of course, I base my criteria on the quality of the show. DS9 is flat out better than TNG. I never even considered that race had anything to do with it.

Gosh, I must be biased against white leads. Come on. Give people credit. They'll watch a decent story whomever is cast as the lead.....if the writing, acting, and production is up to par. I can't believe we're even still talking about this in the 21st century. It's the suits who *assume* people won't relate. People are fine for the most part. Supposedly a black man could never become president. He did. Black men would never get the managers' jobs in professional football and baseball--but now they have.

Write a good story, cast whomever the heck you want in the lead and people will come--scifi or no scifi.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Do white viewers relate better to white actors? I'd wager they do, even if they don't realize it.

I'd wager they don't. Strongly wager. Gee, I'm white and I much prefer DS9 with the black lead over TNG with the white Englishman lead. Of course, I base my criteria on the quality of the show. DS9 is flat out better than TNG. I never even considered that race had anything to do with it.

Gosh, I must be biased against white leads. Come on. Give people credit. They'll watch a decent story whomever is cast as the lead.....if the writing, acting, and production is up to par. I can't believe we're even still talking about this in the 21st century. It's the suits who *assume* people won't relate. People are fine for the most part. Supposedly a black man could never become president. He did. Black men would never get the managers' jobs in professional football and baseball--but now they have.

Write a good story, cast whomever the heck you want in the lead and people will come--scifi or no scifi.

Thank you. I thought maybe I was weird or something. I literally don't care who is in the lead of a show, most of the time I don't even think of the race when I think of a character, until there's some reason for it being relevant.

I can never understand this "How can I relate to someone who's not like me?" stuff. They're a human being, they have the same emotions, and overall same life experiences, whether feeling oppressed because of race or sexuality, being bullied because of weight or geekiness. Whether being in love with a man or a woman, loss of friends and family, being so angry as to take it out on the wrong person, or feeling lonely and left out, everybody experiences these or similar things, so how is it hard to relate just because the woman has different skin to you, or the guy loves another man?

I really couldn't care who is the lead actor, or the ethnicity of the main cast, so long as they're good in the role and the writing is good and I enjoy the show I'll watch.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The notion that the characters must be white and the lead character must be a white male (or a young white female in a skimpy outfit ) is probably more Hollywood assumption than driven by the demands of the audience. But when do we ever get a chance to prove it one way or the other via the Nielsens? Look at the shows on TV now and the pilots for next fall - almost all of them have your standard white male lead.

It's easier to cite the rare exceptions: Esai Morales as the lead of Caprica. He is one of the reasons I'm interested in that show, despite what is bound to be tricky material that is difficult to dramatize in a way that will hang onto the audience. I'm pretty sure that when inevitably the ratings are disappointing, it will be because debating the definition of a human being requires patience, intelligence and attentiveness from the audience and the race of the lead actor won't have anything to do with it.

Another exception: V, which has a white female lead (Elizabeth Mitchell). Not even sure if that ones going to be picked up (but still hopeful).

 

[Myasishchev]

I'd just like to say that I'll watch a female of any race in a skimpy outfit.

Also, this thread reminds me of one of my favorite old Arthur C. Clarke novels, Imperial Earth.

Beware: spoilers ahead for a novel nearing half a century old! Also: Abel dies and Cain was the murderer!


In Imperial Earth, the main character, Duncan Makenzie, the CEO of the corporation that owns Titan, has been invited to the ceremonies involving the octacentennial or something of the United States, which is really just a subdivision of the standard Earthgov. Lots of cool stuff happens, but hilarity ensues when he runs into a bunch of history professors who are taking part in the big celebration, indeed, who are really getting into it... by playing slaves in blackface.

They freeze in their tracks when they meet Duncan. It's a good halfway or more through the book that we realize that the main character is a black guy. In fact, since he's a clone of a clone of a clone, he's now the only black guy left in the entire universe. Everyone else has interbred so thoroughly they're just kind of generally tan, and it's been so long since this process has taken place, they don't even realize blackface is offensive. And iirc Duncan only kind of vaguely realizes he should maybe be offended.

The only downside is that I don't know if this joke would work as well in a film, since it relies so heavily on the reader's own ingrained prejudice and presumptive surprise at realizing the main character's a black dude. Distilled to its essence, this scene is Clarke saying, "Gotcha, you racist scumbag!" and the reader laughing at, and hopefully discarding, his own preconceptions.

I think it was one of the most hopeful visions of overcoming the barriers of race ever devised. The solution is obvious: more sex and less cloning. Let's get to work.

 

[DarKush]

"Blacks in Space"-an interesting article posted on the American Prospect website.

http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=blacks_in_space

 

[DarKush]

I'd just like to say that I'll watch a female of any race in a skimpy outfit.

Also, this thread reminds me of one of my favorite old Arthur C. Clarke novels, Imperial Earth.

Beware: spoilers ahead for a novel nearing half a century old! Also: Abel dies and Cain was the murderer!


In Imperial Earth, the main character, Duncan Makenzie, the CEO of the corporation that owns Titan, has been invited to the ceremonies involving the octacentennial or something of the United States, which is really just a subdivision of the standard Earthgov. Lots of cool stuff happens, but hilarity ensues when he runs into a bunch of history professors who are taking part in the big celebration, indeed, who are really getting into it... by playing slaves in blackface.

They freeze in their tracks when they meet Duncan. It's a good halfway or more through the book that we realize that the main character is a black guy. In fact, since he's a clone of a clone of a clone, he's now the only black guy left in the entire universe. Everyone else has interbred so thoroughly they're just kind of generally tan, and it's been so long since this process has taken place, they don't even realize blackface is offensive. And iirc Duncan only kind of vaguely realizes he should maybe be offended.

The only downside is that I don't know if this joke would work as well in a film, since it relies so heavily on the reader's own ingrained prejudice and presumptive surprise at realizing the main character's a black dude. Distilled to its essence, this scene is Clarke saying, "Gotcha, you racist scumbag!" and the reader laughing at, and hopefully discarding, his own preconceptions.

I think it was one of the most hopeful visions of overcoming the barriers of race ever devised. The solution is obvious: more sex and less cloning. Let's get to work.

I don't see how a black guy realizing that gee blackface isn't that bad, even after a few centuries, really is a step toward racial understanding. There were black minstrels back in the day too, it was some of the only, or the most profitable work, some black entertainers could get, but that didn't make blackface any less vile then, now, or in the future.

Why do black people having to accept or 'get over' such debasement a condition for racial reconciliation?