SF and People of Color

[captainduprix]

I just finished watching the finale of Atlantis and decided to go out to the website, as I was feeling a bit saddened by the news...and then it hit me.

All of the regular Earth-born characters on both SG-1 and Atlantis are Caucasian. And all the People of Color on the show, Ronin, Teyla, Teal'C, are off- worlders. The one regular character of color on the first season of Atlantis, Lt. Ford, was not on very long.

Then I remembered how, on Enterprise, Shran referred to Humans as "Pink Skins," though most humans are brown-skinned, even in the 21st Century!

Then I noticed that BSG has NO black regular characters, unless you count Dualla, who is hardly ever on screen.

I am reminded of the story told by Nichelle Nichols, about how she was so frustrated with her character that she was going to quit after the first season until she was admonished to remain by none other than Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.; he felt that her being on television would present a positive image of black people for the whole world to see.

Call me a Commie or whatever you like, but isn't variety a good thing? Whatever happened to Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations? Doesn't saying you "don't see color" just mean that you can't see anything but white? What's wrong with intentionally casting a strong, African American male in a position of leadership, or a beautiful Afro-French femme fatale (France has the largest population of Blacks in Europe, by the way, which is why I used this example)?

Some might called that "tokenism," and dismiss it as patronizing, but characters are cast for a variety of reasons. Chekov was originally cast to appeal to younger female viewers. Almost every show on television has a sexy Blond, to appeal to the sexual appetites of White males, and/or at least one strong female character, to appeal to women. And almost all shows have a White guy in command, for the obvious reasons. All of these type-cast roles are done to appeal to a certain demographic. Why not take it a step further by casting a young, urban male, for example, to appeal to young black males and females? Isn't this a potential growth market? And don't give me that "a white person can't write authentically for a black character" crap. That's like saying a man can't write for a woman.

There is the argument often made at these posts that the writers and producers are simply hiring the best actors for the job. First off, most of the actors on genre shows are HORRIBLE actors (BSG being an obvious exception). A good-looking average actor trumps an average-looking great actor almost every time. And there is always the comedy relief, the old wise man, the young ward, etc. These are all examples of deliberate casting. And forget the "stereotyping" argument as well; I would rather see a controversial black person on TV than none at all.

How many Alfre Woodards, Will Smiths, and Denzil Washingtons (all Oscar- nominated actors who got their starts on television) are out there, waiting for their chance to shine? Or maybe the folks who make these shows are just too insecure to cast more people of color for fear that they might be diminished in the comparison. Maybe it's all just back-lash (or should I say Black-lash) for the successful blacks who went on to greater heights.

I miss TOS. Now that was a Left-Wing, Patronizing show for ya!
__________________

 

[Trent Roman]

Or maybe the folks who make these shows are just too insecure to cast more people of color, for fear that they might be diminished in the comparison. Maybe it's all just back-lash (or should I say Black-lash) for the sucessful blacks who went on to greater heights.

I was with you up to here. First of all, none of the people doing the casting are actually going to appear on the show, so there's no comparison happening; nor would there be any basis for a fear of being 'outshone', since good actors and bad actors come in every ethnicity. Resentment over succesful blacks doesn't seem at all likely, since, like I said, there's by and large no direct competition between casting/producers and that lot and the people actually onscreen. The usual excuse given for the monoblepsic casting in many of these shows is that the audience has such stunning dearth of sympathetic imagination that they can only relate to people 'like them' , and apparently skin colour is an aspect of such similitude (so, in the case of genre fans, predominantly white, young/middle-aged males). Frankly, I would hope that this is utter crock, but I imagine that the casting people aren't all secret Klansmen and actually have statistics and research to back this up. So we can fault the casting people for general cowardice, but we also need to fault the large part of the audience that apparently remains mired in the 1950s (not that anybody would ever self-identify as such).

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[RoJoHen]

You know, this kind of thing gets brought up from time to time, and I honestly don't have an answer. There could be any number of reasons for these kinds of things.

What is the demographic of most scifi shows? Is it mostly white people? If so, maybe there just aren't that many colored people auditioning for roles. Do white viewers relate better to white actors? I'd wager they do, even if they don't realize it.

Maybe the creators have ideas in their heads about the ethnicity of characters before they even start casting. I know a lot of scifi films in places like Canada. Is the population of Canada mostly white? I dunno, but it sure seems that way sometimes.

As for characters like Ford...well, sorry Rainbow, but you were easily the weakest actor on the show. And Dualla, she may not have been around much in this last chunk of Season 4, but she had a fairly large role in previous seasons. Not to mention the fact that Edward James Olmos is hispanic.

I doubt there is any malicious intent.

 

[RoJoHen]

Or maybe the folks who make these shows are just too insecure to cast more people of color, for fear that they might be diminished in the comparison. Maybe it's all just back-lash (or should I say Black-lash) for the sucessful blacks who went on to greater heights.

I was with you up to here. First of all, none of the people doing the casting are actually going to appear on the show, so there's no comparison happening; nor would there be any basis for a fear of being 'outshone', since good actors and bad actors come in every ethnicity. Resentment over succesful blacks seem at all likely, since, like I said, there's by and large no direct competition between casting/producers and that lot and the people actually onscreen. The usual excuse given for the monoblepsic casting in many of these shows is that the audience has such stunning dearth of sympathetic imagination that they can only relate to people 'like them' , and apparently skin colour is an aspect of such similitude (so, in the case of genre fans, predominantly white, young/middle-aged males). Frankly, I would hope that this is utter crock, but I imagine that the casting people aren't all secret Klansmen and actually have statistics and research to back this up. So we can fault the casting people for general cowardice, but we also need to fault the large part of the audience that apparently remains mired in the 1950s (not that anybody would ever self-identify as such).

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I would imagine that the audience's relatability to people "like them" is a subconscious thought. Animals naturally flock to their own kind.

If I saw a preview for 2 identical shows except one had a white cast and one had a black cast, I'd probably watch the white show first out of habit more than anything...and the fact that most all-black TV shows are awful (Tyler Perry, please stop making shows!) .

I did love me some Family Matters when I was younger, though.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Diversity is a good thing, but often I think it just boils down to the personal choice of producers and casting directors. They go with what they know or they think are the right actors for certain roles, and that sometimes (if not frequently) leads to actors of color being cast in the roles of aliens or roles that are more physical in nature [stand or sit in the background] and require little dialogue. I don't think it's malicious or even deliberate, but I do think it's still human nature for people to go with what they relate to and the producers and casting directors of science-fiction shows and films are no exceptions.

 

[DRMidnite]

OK...I'll say it... what about Avery Brooks, Cirroc Lofton and Penny Johnson from DS9? That was by far my favorite Trek/scifi show. Patrick Stewart is a great actor, but Brooks took his role to a whole new level with phenomenal performances! If it makes any difference, I am caucasian, but my liking a show isn't based on the casts' color, rather their abilities.

And yes... Tyler Perry needs to stop...LOL

 

[captcalhoun]

^um, Michael Dorn

 

[Bob The Skutter]

The arguement about people not relating to people different to them is bullshit. I'll check out any show that looks interesting, and I can relate to a show that has a full black cast as easy as I can to a full white cast, I can relate to gay characters as easy as straight, but then maybe people like me are the minority.
There is something to be said for the pool of actors, remember a lot of these shows are filmed in Vancouver, which seem to have a pool of actors so small that if you watch the shows made there they practically seem to have a revolving door.

 

[RoJoHen]

OK...I'll say it... what about Avery Brooks, Cirroc Lofton and Penny Johnson from DS9? That was by far my favorite Trek/scifi show. Patrick Stewart is a great actor, but Brooks took his role to a whole new level with phenomenal performances! If it makes any difference, I am caucasian, but my liking a show isn't based on the casts' color, rather their abilities.

And yes... Tyler Perry needs to stop...LOL

I don't think anyone is saying that we would like a show better because of a white cast, but we might be initially drawn to a show if we see a cast where the majority is the same ethnicity as us, all else being equal. I love DS9 as well (though I think Avery Brooks is horribly overrated by Trek fans. He belongs on a stage, not in front of a camera).

 

[RoJoHen]

The arguement about people not relating to people different to them is bullshit. I'll check out any show that looks interesting, and I can relate to a show that has a full black cast as easy as I can to a full white cast, I can relate to gay characters as easy as straight, but then maybe people like me are the minority..

Again, I don't think people do it deliberately. Subconsciously people are simply more comfortable around "their own kind." It's just the way our brains work.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

The arguement about people not relating to people different to them is bullshit. I'll check out any show that looks interesting, and I can relate to a show that has a full black cast as easy as I can to a full white cast, I can relate to gay characters as easy as straight, but then maybe people like me are the minority..

Again, I don't think people do it deliberately. Subconsciously people are simply more comfortable around "their own kind." It's just the way our brains mwork.

Maybe, but still I couldn't give a flying fuck who's in the cast so long as the show interests me and they are good in their role.

 

[RoJoHen]

I tend not to be interested in shows that don't have spaceships in them, though recently I have branched out and embraced shows with vampires and mysterious islands filled with polar bears and hatches.

I'm growing as a person.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I tend not to be interested in shows that don't have spaceships in them, though recently I have branched out and embraced shows with vampires and mysterious islands filled with polar bears and hatches.

I'm growing as a person.

I was the same not too long ago, if it wasn' Sci-fi it was shit, then I realised that's basically what bothered my about other people. They assume sci-fi is shit, so I branched out and have found many shows that I think are fantastic.

 

[RoJoHen]

I just don't want much TV in general, so when I do, I go for what I know I already like. I never assume non-scifi shows are shit; I just don't have time to give them a chance unless someone forces me to.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I just don't want much TV in general, so when I do, I go for what I know I already like. I never assume non-scifi shows are shit; I just don't have time to give them a chance unless someone forces me to.

Well yeah, I never actually assumed they were shit, just boring.

 

[RoJoHen]

My favorite non-scifi shows are Scrubs and Arrested Development. I also love Chuck, but I don't know if we'd call that scifi or not. It's definitely got some scifi (or at least, scifi nerd) elements to it.

And interestingly, back on topic, these shows all have mostly white casts. Scrubs does a decent job with its non-white crew, though, and they've actually made plenty of points to acknowledge the non-whiteness of those characters.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Well to be fair, there aren't many shows where there is a majority ethnic or mostly black cast which are very good. I used to love Fresh Prince when I was younger, but besides that most seem either very stereotypical, or too broad for my tastes. I did like what I saw of Everybody Hates Chris, but I got sick of it by the time they were done repeating it, and I never knew when new shows were airing.

 

[Tulaberry whine]

Whether you like his movies or not, the leading and most successful actor in popular sci fi movies at the moment is black: Will Smith. I think that's worth remembering.

 

[captcalhoun]

i've never had trouble relating to black people and i'm as white as milk. Sisko's badass, Sam Jackson and Will Smith are two of my acting heroes and one of my football heroes is John Barnes. (that's Football not gridiron)

 

[DarKush]

I think this is a very important topic. One that's bugged me for a long time. Will Smith aside, there is a lack of diversity still in Sci-Fi shows. I give the producers/writers credit though, it's much better than before. Now, at least some effort is made to place blacks, and now more browns and yellows on these shows, but unfortunately the characters are usually poorly developed or placed in the background, perhaps to secure a diversity point. Most Sci-Fi shows, and most shows/movies in general still revolve around white characters.

The minorities also sometimes fit the noble savage stereotype (Teal'C, Teyla, Ronan, Worf, Tyr, Tony Todd in various roles), etc. I also think there is still a way to go in developing black and other minority characters into full human beings on shows-with inner lives-and outside activities that don't revolve around supporting the white main characters. Along with the noble savage, there is the badass kind of image that a lot of black characters, male and female, seem to fall into. Not as many scientist roles or scholars or other stuff that requires more intellect. Black/minority characters also seem to be more spiritual or mystical.

Sisko is perhaps the best developed black sci-fi character IMO. He had two wives, two children, we learned a lot about him. We saw him display various moods, got a look into his inner life and what drives him. He also had a great commanding presence. Even with that, it seems that on DS9 he would be in the background sometimes. I didn't mind because the show had such a great ensemble cast and did develop their ensemble better than any other Trek show.

Surprisingly, I thought Tyr from Andromeda was another ground breaking black character. He started out as noble savage/warrior type, but at the same time he wasn't just strong, he was smart, and that was established early on. He challenged Dylan-the white main hero-for Alpha Male status, which is something a lot of black characters don't do (Geordi, Mayweather, Dr. Franklin, Boomer 1, etc.) He romanced Beka, which is something you don't see a lot of black male characters do either. It seems more acceptable for white male/black female relationships in movies/TV. And he was a villian. Not a lot of black villians in Sci-Fi.

Teal'C also stepped away from his stereotype, in terms of them establishing his family as more than a one shot deal in the last season of the show, and it was a running theme. Teal'C became a valuable member of the team that used his knowledge of the System Lords to help take them down. He just didn't grunt and shoot like Ronan. They tried to develop Teyla, I think, but they didn't do a good job.

So there's still a lot of work to be done. I can't really recall a sci-fi TV show since DS9 with a black lead. Even on BSG, EJO wears blue eye contacts. IMO, since white people are mainly the folks who put these shows together, they likely draw from their experiences, and its likely they have little contact-in a significant way-with non-white people so they write what they know. Also, the sci-fi audience is more than likely overwhelming white, and might not take to black/brown/yellow leads, as well as white ones. Or perhaps that's what the suits think.