Default is joint custody, so what's unfair about that?
Sexism in the Workplace
- Thread starter Tora Ziyal
- Start date
Default is joint custody, so what's unfair about that?
Nothing.
I'm confused, rRico. If there's nothing unfair about the default being joint custody, what was your original point?
Robert Maxwell`s post read as if he had to pursue his right. That is obviously not the case. Perhaps his point was in regard to sole custody in his situation?
As the default is already as fair as one would expect, my post was pointless.
Yes, I pursued something other than a joint custody arrangement. I wanted physical custody. The norm is for the primary caregiver to retain physical custody, and that's usually the mother. To change that often requires legal action, and that's what I was talking about.
And as @Robert Maxwell stated, when men pursue physical custody they get it in about 50% of cases.
Which completely discounts the likelihood that the sexism is so entrenched that it never even occurs to most men to try to pursue physical custody because even *their* views have been shaped by society to believe that the mother should have custody. "A kid should be with his mother, everybody knows that. What can a father do but babysit sometimes?" - Sting, "I'm So Happy I Can't Stop Crying". When even a liberal like Sting encodes the idea into his songs, you might have a problem. And saying men get custody as often as women when they try might be like saying that women succeed as truck drivers when they try: they don't try that often, because they don't think they're "supposed to" except for in fringe situations.
wut
I'll try again. Little Jenny grows up believing she can be a nurse but not a doctor, because doctor is a boy's job. So later on, as a conscious decision or a subconscious one, she decides to become a nurse instead of a doctor. She *could* have become a doctor - percentage-wise, the girls who try succeed as often as boys - but it didn't even occur to her. That's a boy's job.Little Bobby grows up being told that only little girls play with baby dolls and play house. Those are girl's toys. All of the kids he knows are raised by a married couple or a single mom. Mom's raise babies. Everyone knows that. So later, when his marriage falls apart, the kids are going to live with Mommy. Of course they are. Maybe some extreme situations where the mother is clearly unfit result in the dad trying to get his kids - and HALF of those succeed even though the mother might be questionable. A kid belongs with Mommy. Everyone knows that. Sexist BS.
Sorry if the formatting is weird or uncomfortable. I'm on my phone posting.
Those aren't really the same thing.
The whining about mothers getting custody comes almost exclusively from men who are upset that they have to pay child support and gosh women are such bitches amirite. Men complain that women almost always get custody without bothering to examine the facts. Do you really think there's this huge demographic of men who want to pursue custody for legitimate reasons but hold off because sexism?
Frankly, when I was pursuing my own case, it was hard to find advice in this area because almost all the writing was of the nature I just described: women are terrible, judges hate men, kids are just bargaining chips and why do I have to pay for them anyway.
Perceptions of gender bias matter, regardless of the reality, but the court system has gone a long way toward eliminating that bias and I'd say you have a high bar to clear if you want to suggest that men--unlike in every other aspect of our society--are disfavored by the court system in this regard.
As it happens, very few divorces end up needing court intervention to determine custody arrangements in the first place, so the idea that the legal system is presenting a huge barrier here is also baseless.
I'd rather discuss this in another thread, though, if there is any desire to carry on with this tangent since it's totally a derail from the thread topic.
The whining about mothers getting custody comes almost exclusively from men who are upset that they have to pay child support and gosh women are such bitches amirite. Men complain that women almost always get custody without bothering to examine the facts. Do you really think there's this huge demographic of men who want to pursue custody for legitimate reasons but hold off because sexism?
Frankly, when I was pursuing my own case, it was hard to find advice in this area because almost all the writing was of the nature I just described: women are terrible, judges hate men, kids are just bargaining chips and why do I have to pay for them anyway.
Perceptions of gender bias matter, regardless of the reality, but the court system has gone a long way toward eliminating that bias and I'd say you have a high bar to clear if you want to suggest that men--unlike in every other aspect of our society--are disfavored by the court system in this regard.
As it happens, very few divorces end up needing court intervention to determine custody arrangements in the first place, so the idea that the legal system is presenting a huge barrier here is also baseless.
I'd rather discuss this in another thread, though, if there is any desire to carry on with this tangent since it's totally a derail from the thread topic.
The only blatantly sexist man I work with is gay. I am so fucking glad he is not my boss. He disproportionately chastises the women in his department, gives the plumb assignments men when there are more able and talented women available, tolerates laziness and lack of productivity from the men under his supervision but not the women, etc. Waiting for his damn kid to be born was the worst, because he went on and on and fucking on about how much he wanted a boy ("But I want to teach him sports!" said he, "Girls can play sports, you know," said I). Thank god the kid is male, otherwise some poor girl would have to put up with his shit.
Wow. 
A
Amaris
Guest
That is awful.
Sadly sexism really is a thing among gay people, too. Last week lesbians in Switzerland have started raising awareness because they're marginalized in the LGBT movement by gay men. Men get more attention, more money, more influence which makes it really hard for lesbians. The men also often hold sexist views and dismiss or belittle the women in the movement.
Also: crazy enough, they're complaining about gay men groping them with the "Hey, I'm gay, it's just playing" excuse, which definitely proves that groping isn't just sexual but very much about controlling women and our bodies. Plus, even gay men aren't immune to the "grand old tradition" of casual sexism and harassment. Everybody does it, right?
Also: crazy enough, they're complaining about gay men groping them with the "Hey, I'm gay, it's just playing" excuse, which definitely proves that groping isn't just sexual but very much about controlling women and our bodies. Plus, even gay men aren't immune to the "grand old tradition" of casual sexism and harassment. Everybody does it, right?
My earlier post was from the 70s, and this one is about something that happened in the 90s. I worked for a time in the computer room on a Coast Guard base. Promotions and bonuses were supposed to be based on job performance, but the reality was different. My immediate supervisor paid the men more (through bonuses and promotions) than he did the women in our office because he said that men had families to support. But some of the women in our office were single mothers, the sole support of themselves and their daughters. He knew that, but he didn't seem to give that much weight.
He probably thought that they should find a husband to support them. You'd think that by the '90s this attitude would have gone away, but it's still around even now.
Apparently, on this very board, it's perfectly acceptable to call any woman you dislike a whore. I'm sorry; how is this OK with ANYONE? So misogyny is perfectly acceptable here. Good to know.
No, that is not perfectly acceptable. Do you have a link to the offending post? I'm looking for it but if you could point me in the right direction that would be helpful.
ETA: Never mind, I found it. It's not in one of my forums, so I can't handle it myself, but I will hit notify on it and let the Lounge Mods deal with it. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.
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I haven't experienced blatant sexism in my face since high school, where we had this creepy teacher that would call girls "honey" and grab their ass. I was well hated by him after I told him that my name is not honey and that if he comes closer to me than one metre, I will report him to the principal. Other girls probably found it funny when he treated them this way, all giggling, but who am I to judge their choices.
I have experience hidden sexism. I went to IT university, where the professor said: "I think only two kinds of people shouldn't attend this school - women and foreigners." and it was targeted to the class area where I was sitting next to an Asian guy - neither of us passed the exam, unfortunately.
I have learned to dress certain way to avoid comments on my body - jeans, geeky t-shirts and always slouching to the point when I started getting backaches. I no longer wear make-up or call attention to my appearance in any way. I went back to wearing glasses, because ages ago when I came in the room in "girly" clothes, wearing contacts, make up and with styled blonde hair, everyone in the room started to assume that I am just a pretty face, no brains. And working in IT is hard enough for a woman without making it harder by looking nice.
I have also learned by living in male dominated world that there will always be at least one man to interrupt what you are saying, so I just raise my voice and continue talking or openly say "I'm not done talking" or something similar.
Also, sadly, I know that IT in my country is the field with biggest difference in wages between genders and none of the companies I worked for was different. So sometimes I'd learn that I am working for half the money my colleague is. Which is always problematic to negotiate because in every company I had to sign this paper that employees are not allowed to share how much money they make among each other and they would ask how do I know.
And of course, there is the sexism where the speaker doesn't realize that they are being sexist. Like when my friend told me: "You are smart for a woman." after I help him with one problem he had at work and didn't understand why I was angry about it and told him that: "I am smart for a human being."
I have experience hidden sexism. I went to IT university, where the professor said: "I think only two kinds of people shouldn't attend this school - women and foreigners." and it was targeted to the class area where I was sitting next to an Asian guy - neither of us passed the exam, unfortunately.
I have learned to dress certain way to avoid comments on my body - jeans, geeky t-shirts and always slouching to the point when I started getting backaches. I no longer wear make-up or call attention to my appearance in any way. I went back to wearing glasses, because ages ago when I came in the room in "girly" clothes, wearing contacts, make up and with styled blonde hair, everyone in the room started to assume that I am just a pretty face, no brains. And working in IT is hard enough for a woman without making it harder by looking nice.
I have also learned by living in male dominated world that there will always be at least one man to interrupt what you are saying, so I just raise my voice and continue talking or openly say "I'm not done talking" or something similar.
Also, sadly, I know that IT in my country is the field with biggest difference in wages between genders and none of the companies I worked for was different. So sometimes I'd learn that I am working for half the money my colleague is. Which is always problematic to negotiate because in every company I had to sign this paper that employees are not allowed to share how much money they make among each other and they would ask how do I know.
And of course, there is the sexism where the speaker doesn't realize that they are being sexist. Like when my friend told me: "You are smart for a woman." after I help him with one problem he had at work and didn't understand why I was angry about it and told him that: "I am smart for a human being."
