Sexism in the Workplace

[Tora Ziyal]

This thread is mostly inspired by the way Donald Trump was so aggressive towards Hillary Clinton at the debate last night, repeatedly interrupting and getting all up in her space while she was talking. Plus of course all of his talk about women's bodies. Probably most of us females have had similar experiences at work sometime in our lives (if not frequently).

I spent most of my career in male-dominated fields, but my "favorite" story is actually from my few years in adult education. There was only one male instructor in our program, and he seemed to dislike me from the moment I was hired. I had no idea why, as we didn't even have reason to interact much. Then one day I happened to run into him in the parking lot, and as we walked to the building together, he told me (totally out of the blue) that the reason he'd always disliked me was that I walked too aggressively.

Your stories, please!

 

[auntiehill]

I have been told I talk like a man, think like a man, write like a man---and it's never been a compliment, even when coming from men. That's always puzzled me.

I've had male co-workers block me from leaving the room--the arm across the door move, while they ask about my personal life--- post pornography on the break-room refrigerator, tell me what a shame it was that I wasn't attractive enough to be promoted. I've been turned down for jobs, where the only reason they gave was that my appearance wasn't the look they wanted in their business. There were at least two stores in Houston that pretty just told me to my face that, even though I was very qualified, I was too ugly or too fat to work in their clothing store.

 

[thestrangequark]

I once went to work in an A-line skirt and loose sweater. My boss at the time said to me exactly this: "Why do you wear clothes that make look so boxy? You have a good body. You should show off your waist."

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Wow, auntiehill and corpse, those are more blatent than most of what I've experienced.

 

[Timewalker]

I have been told I talk like a man, think like a man, write like a man---and it's never been a compliment, even when coming from men. That's always puzzled me.

If you don't match their preconceived notions of how women are supposed to act in that setting (either sex's preconceived notions), of course negative garbage is going to come out. Some people are petty that way.

I've usually been my own boss (self-employed home businesses) so I didn't need to put up with co-workers with attitude. I've had a few clients with attitude, though. One guy thought that it would be okay to pay for his paper (typing it) by "taking you out to dinner." I told him that the way it worked was that he would bring me his rough draft, we would discuss it so I would know what format his instructor wanted, any special instructions that might apply, I'd type it and have it done by the agreed-on deadline, and he would pay me before leaving with the finished paper. Surprise, I never heard back (okay, not surprised at all). And then there was the guy who smelled like he dumped half a gallon of cologne over himself before arriving with his paper; that was the last time I accepted one of his papers, since that's one of the things that sets off one of my respiratory allergies.

One of the weirdest things that happened, though, was when one of the male clients told me, "Talking to you is like talking to a bartender." Since I'm not familiar with that setting (I don't drink), I wasn't sure how to take that. I asked my dad later, and he said I should take it as a compliment - because bartenders listen to a lot of people's personal stories and don't judge.

I've had male co-workers block me from leaving the room--the arm across the door move, while they ask about my personal life--- post pornography on the break-room refrigerator, tell me what a shame it was that I wasn't attractive enough to be promoted. I've been turned down for jobs, where the only reason they gave was that my appearance wasn't the look they wanted in their business. There were at least two stores in Houston that pretty just told me to my face that, even though I was very qualified, I was too ugly or too fat to work in their clothing store.

I take it that you don't have anything like a Human Rights Commission to handle situations like that? My mother was once fired from her job as a desk clerk at a small hotel because she "wasn't bubbly enough." Her replacement was a woman half her age, with nowhere near the equivalent amount of experience. Since her firing fell under both age and sex discrimination, she sued for wrongful dismissal and won.

 

[auntiehill]

Rights? For workers? I live in Texas.

Certain establishments are perfectly within their legal rights to hire people based solely on appearance--"Hooters," for example--as long as they are upfront about appearance being a job qualification. Retail stores/boutiques get around this, saying they want only clerks that fit into and "look good" in their brand of clothes. In other instances, one must have incontrovertible proof in order to sue and need to acquire their own lawyer, not easy to do for most people working low-paying jobs. It often becomes a case of just putting up with it long enough to find another job.

eta: one thing that has always bothered me: male supervisors at my job who are tough, straightforward and direct with employees are "go-getters," and "straight-shooters." They are generally admired and respected. The women with the exact same characteristics are just "bitches." They are dismissed as "evil" and "crazy," when they do exactly what the men do.

Most of the staff are women but the only people who have told me to be "more nice," are the few men that I've had to correct. In fact, I've had to have "feedback sessions" with many raters this year--about 85% of them female. Only the male raters balked at being corrected.

 

[stardream]

Rights? For workers? I live in Texas.

eta: one thing that has always bothered me: male supervisors at my job who are tough, straightforward and direct with employees are "go-getters," and "straight-shooters." They are generally admired and respected. The women with the exact same characteristics are just "bitches." They are dismissed as "evil" and "crazy," when they do exactly what the men do.

Most of the staff are women but the only people who have told me to be "more nice," are the few men that I've had to correct. In fact, I've had to have "feedback sessions" with many raters this year--about 85% of them female. Only the male raters balked at being corrected.

It is interesting how anger and assertiveness are treated in our society. Men are supposed to repress almost all emotions but anger while women are not allowed to show anger. I know, it's just a general observation but I think both extremes are harmful.

I haven't experienced many problems on the job but my work environment was mostly female dominated (pre-school) and now I work from home unless you count those summers when I worked at a Scout camp (as an adult). It was interesting teaching those sixteen year old young men how to behave around young women.

Friday night families came to share dinner with the campers and staff. It was nicknamed 'big sister night' for obvious reasons. I heard some of them joking about it in rather risque terms and laid down the law on what was acceptable behavior around these girls and what was not. The adult men on the staff backed me up. The younger staffers decided to take my advice. It was great to watch these young men walk up to these young women and introduce themselves, act like gentlemen, and chat with them like normal human beings. Now it could be that they were doing it for show because they knew I was watching them like a hawk but the girls seemed to be impressed, and so were their families.

My experiences with harassment are unfortunately what everyone else has experienced. Cat calls etc. Did have one guy ask me if my daughter (who was only about three at the time) was my little sister. Sure...yeah. That's going to work.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

There's a woman at my job who was once my boss. She's now moved up and is a VP. Anyway, other guys I've worked with who have interacted with her all hate her. I have never understood why. One guy I used to work with even screamed at her once because she asked him to be accountable for his office attendance--he'd been having a lot of "car trouble" that was impacting his office attendance, and this later turned out to be him seeking a new job. But I notice she never reprimanded him or tried to fire him or anything--for such a horrible person, she was apparently willing to tolerate shitty behavior from male subordinates.

I always got along very well with her, including when we were under tight deadlines and she was being a hardass about us getting things done. There were a lot of late nights but I can't say I was ever angry with her or resented her. It's not as if the situation was her fault (it truly wasn't; outside factors forced the issue).

Nobody's ever been able to give a clear reason for why they don't like her, and I've always gotten along with her just fine. I can't help but think it's some combination of her being gay and not putting up with men bullshitting her--she certainly demands results, but no less than she delivers herself. I doubt it was easy for her to work her way up to where she is in two male-dominated fields (namely, pharmacy and software).

I have a few other stories from my work life but that's the one that sticks out the most.

 

[Snaploud]

One of the weirdest things that happened, though, was when one of the male clients told me, "Talking to you is like talking to a bartender." Since I'm not familiar with that setting (I don't drink), I wasn't sure how to take that. I asked my dad later, and he said I should take it as a compliment - because bartenders listen to a lot of people's personal stories and don't judge.

I'm a male who also doesn't drink, but I think your father is probably correct (though, the client obviously should have explained it a bit better). Both male and female bartenders are known for being nonjudgmental about personal stuff. I'm not sure if the 'bartender' comment was appropriate for the particular situation, but it depends upon whether or not the paper in question (or the writing process itself) touched upon something personal (or perhaps upon a personal limitation of his--such as a learning disability). It also depends upon his tone and general manner (as even the most mild of compliments can come off creepy depending upon the way it is expressed).

 

[Timewalker]

I'm a male who also doesn't drink, but I think your father is probably correct (though, the client obviously should have explained it a bit better). Both male and female bartenders are known for being nonjudgmental about personal stuff. I'm not sure if the 'bartender' comment was appropriate for the particular situation, but it depends upon whether or not the paper in question (or the writing process itself) touched upon something personal (or perhaps upon a personal limitation of his--such as a learning disability). It also depends upon his tone and general manner (as even the most mild of compliments can come off creepy depending upon the way it is expressed).

I have to admit that it was very difficult at times to stay silent. He was ranting about his ex, in a child custody situation, complaining about how the courts always take the woman's side, and women get all these privileges men don't get, and on and on and on... At one point I almost asked him, "Are you aware that you're telling all this to a woman?" but since I valued his business and knew he wasn't mad at me personally, I just let him get it all out. I guess it did help to have someone uninvolved in the situation just sit there and listen. Hopefully things worked out; this was over 25 years ago, so whatever happened, the kid is now old enough to decide for him/herself about parental contact.

Ironic, in a way, since when my own parents divorced it was my dad who got custody. This was 45 years ago, so the court doesn't always favor the woman.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Fun fact: when fathers pursue custody, they get it about half the time, which strikes me as pretty fair. (I am one such father, too.)

 

[Miss Chicken]

I was working as a temp while they found someone to fill a position. I did not want a permanent full time job for health reason so I did not apply for the permanent job.

The boss I worked for kept telling people that I was on a diet despite me repeatedly telling him I wasn't and I was happy with my weight. He would say things like 'Lynne has no will power, she is eating chocolate despite being on a diet'' or 'don't offer her that she is on a diet'. I found it embarrassing and one other woman lost her temper with him when he said it in front of her.

One day, after about a month on this job, I just said to him 'YOu need me more than I need this job. If you make a remark about my weight again I won't turn up any more'.

After 14 weeks the new woman (a thin, young woman) started the job. She lasted two weeks before she decided she did not want to work with him. I found out that many women had refused to work with him In the past and several agencies refused to have him on their books due to complaints from women.

 

[Velocity]

Back in the 70's I was working in a hospital pharmacy. I always wondered if it was the proximity of all those beds , but the men in charge were such sex obsessed bastards. Kim and I were in our early 20s and both of us were in our first pregnancies. One day one of the hospital board big shots came into the pharmacy and pulled the pharmacy director out of his office and dragged him over to Kim and pointed at her chest saying, "Look at how big her tits are getting!" The director at least looked embarrassed but he didn't say anything to that bastard in the pharmacy that we could hear.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ OMG!

 

[USS Triumphant]

The company that I work for discovered that the male manager of one of our branch locations was having an affair with a customer service rep that worked the retail counter in the store he managed. The company's solution was to "discipline" him - which amounted to nothing more than a "bad, bad man - shamey shamey", and then they promoted her to a position at headquarters just long enough to distance the day they fired her from the discussion about the inappropriate relationship so that she would have difficulty pursuing legal action. I documented everything I knew about the situation and offered to speak to the unemployment board if needed, but she found another job quickly and said she just wanted to put it behind her.

I'm also our email administrator and have had my own disciplinary conversations with employees on two occasions - both managers (and not the one in the story above) - about sexually harassing female employees in emails. And my conversations have included that I have thoroughly documented the incidents for the female employees, because unfortunately I know that my company's owners would do nothing, or at least, nothing appropriate.

And yes, I've been looking for another job for quite a while now. But this isn't a great area for IT work, and I own a house, have kids with friends, etc, so moving isn't much of an option.

 

[Doom Shepherd]

I've always worked in arenas normally dominated by women: I was a librarian, I was the only male librarian on staff (though we did have a groundskeeper who was a guy) and now I'm basically a member of clerical staff at a university - the only male clerical staff member in my building, tho I'm not sure about the whole university.

The most sexist thing I can think of hearing was when a male professor referred to a group of department heads (all women) meeting with the dean of our college as the dean's "estrogen brigade."

OTOH the professor in question is gay, so...

 

[stardream]

I've always worked in arenas normally dominated by women: I was a librarian, I was the only male librarian on staff (though we did have a groundskeeper who was a guy) and now I'm basically a member of clerical staff at a university - the only male clerical staff member in my building, tho I'm not sure about the whole university.

The most sexist thing I can think of hearing was when a male professor referred to a group of department heads (all women) meeting with the dean of our college as the dean's "estrogen brigade."

OTOH the professor in question is gay, so...

A long time ago my husband took over a clerical position that had up to that point been filled by women. It was a 'complaint' desk with a large defense contractor. Usually, the calls were maintenance requests but apparently some of the requests were framed in such a way as to leave the women at the desk in tears. I have NO idea what was being said to these women but they decided it best to put a man on the job. I guess the callers thought twice about repeating whatever it was they had been saying after hearing a deep voiced' hello' from a man.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

hmm, looks like I'm lucky. When I work out in the country, I usually get more respect than my male colleagues (it's a physically demanding job and in a farming-dominated society people grow up respecting hard work). And at my office nobody makes a difference between males and females. The only things that count are how good you are at your job and how good you get along with the colleagues.
Some 15years ago I once had trouble with a drunken colleague who pawed me. I planted him a facer that left my fingerprints visible for several days and never ever had a problem again.

What I occasionally encounter is sexism outside of my job. The other day a complete stranger hugged and kissed me. (I'd have enjoyed it had it not be a male in his late 60s, apparently not exactly well bred and presumably slightly intoxicated).
My colleagues claim it's a certain air of self confidence that I have which makes people not even think about being sexist to me. But I don't think it's that easy. Auntie is a good deal more self confident than I am. I think I'm perhaps just lucky to live in a region where women are accepted as equals (notwithstanding the fact that as a women you need to be twice as good in your job as a man to get at least half his wages...)

 

[Gov Kodos]

I've always worked in arenas normally dominated by women: I was a librarian, I was the only male librarian on staff (though we did have a groundskeeper who was a guy) and now I'm basically a member of clerical staff at a university - the only male clerical staff member in my building, tho I'm not sure about the whole university.

The most sexist thing I can think of hearing was when a male professor referred to a group of department heads (all women) meeting with the dean of our college as the dean's "estrogen brigade."

OTOH the professor in question is gay, so...

So what, being gay is in no way precludes someone being sexist.

 

[rRico]

Fun fact: when fathers pursue custody, they get it about half the time, which strikes me as pretty fair. (I am one such father, too.)

It would be even fairer if fathers didn't have to pursue custody rights but had them granted together with their former partner in the case of divorce or separation.