Seriously, don't get the hate for ST: ENT

[Seven of Five]

Warmed-over TNG/VOY scripts are my major problem with the first couple of seasons, with a sense of deja vu. I couldn't really warm up to any of the characters, aside from Phlox, and Trip.

It was all too safe, and aside from material with the Andorians, it didn't feel like much of a prequel to TOS.

Seasons 3 and 4 are miles better, and there is so much going on that I loved, but it doesn't drag the series up from being my least favourite.

I still prefer VOY, as even though it had very questionable continuity and disappearing characters in the later years, I just like the crew chemistry more.

 

[Herbert]

I really wish they hadn't decided to make shows that predate TOS in chronology because they can't help but look weird within the greater context of Trek history. ENT looks more technologically sophisticated than TOS for example. Of course, I don't expect anyone to make a Trek show that looks like TOS again or even TNG. I get why that wouldn't work but still, it stretches my sense of disbelief. The other issue for me is the retconning you get when they do this which never fails to irritate the hell out of me.
I'd prefer they only made shows that take place after TNG,DS9, and VOY

Having said that, I watched ENT in its entirety last year and thought it was pretty good. Yeah, it starts out slow but then picks up in seasons 3 and 4. I barely gave ENT a glance when it originally aired but I'm glad I revisited it. Will I ever watch it again though? Probably not

 

[Dukhat]

I really wish they hadn't decided to make shows that predate TOS in chronology because they can't help but look weird within the greater context of Trek history. ENT looks more technologically sophisticated than TOS for example.

Then people will just tell you to ignore what you saw in TOS because it's now a visual reboot, which annoys the hell out of me even more. Like I'm some fucking idiot who needs to be told what I'm actually seeing when I know damn well what I'm seeing.

 

[fireproof78]

ENT looks more technologically sophisticated than TOS for example.

Yeah, that definitively sticks out though its failure with interesting characters is more frustrating for my part.

But, the visuals I can live with since they are obviously leading up to something. My struggle is far more the feel of the show is just "TNG but not" and expect me to not notice. Just like visuals stand out to some, the feel of the show stands out to me. It lacks something fits it in to TOS in a way that is more than just visuals.

I don't really think any show will ever get close to capturing TOS. Even fan films, who are meticulous in their recreation efforts, fail at that. Star Trek really should just move away from prequels, but the appeal of Kirk and Co. is too strong.

 

[Herbert]

I don't really think any show will ever get close to capturing TOS. Even fan films, who are meticulous in their recreation efforts, fail at that. Star Trek really should just move away from prequels, but the appeal of Kirk and Co. is too strong.

I think this one was very well done. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhvh2eq-XLgqNxH6npvQxGxLCUHy90IpZ
Was it perfect? Of course not but it's clearly a love letter to the original show.

 

[fireproof78]

I think this one was very well done. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhvh2eq-XLgqNxH6npvQxGxLCUHy90IpZ
Was it perfect? Of course not but it's clearly a love letter to the original show.

I tried with that one and the love for the show is clear but the feel is not quite there. It's nothing against the producers. Just, what is expected and what can be made are two different things.

 

[Kor]

With STC the visuals are very close, but generally the writing is the weak point.

Kor

 

[Herbert]

Right. Like I said, not perfect but nothing could be perfect but I can take what they were offering because I know the heart is there.

 

[fireproof78]

Right. Like I said, not perfect but nothing could be perfect but I can take what they were offering because I know the heart is there.

To each their own. Heart doesn't make up for feel, in my opinion.

 

[Herbert]

To each their own. Heart doesn't make up for feel, in my opinion.

Would it be possible to even get the right feel? I don't think it would

 

[fireproof78]

Would it be possible to even get the right feel? I don't think it would

Of course not. But, I think there is a way to work it where it exists side by side without a disconnect.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

You have to stay close enough to the expectations for the franchise.

Hard disagree. The expectations of the franchise are a comfort blanket that ultimately only serves to stifle creativity.

We’d never have had DS9 at all if this was a concern.

 

[bdub76]

Hard disagree. The expectations of the franchise are a comfort blanket that ultimately only serves to stifle creativity.

We’d never have had DS9 at all if this was a concern.

If you setup the premise for the show and then off the rails with something totally different, you're going to lose viewers. Most of my friends gave up on ENT once the Xindi were introduced.

The fact that we got both B5 and DS9 at the same time tells me that folks were wanting a space station based scifi show at that time. And even DS9 changed things up by bringing Worf over to the show. It's like the creators of the spin-off shows needed folks from TNG to bless them, rather than having them stand on their own. The finale of ENT really made my friends that stuck around very mad.

 

[fireproof78]

Hard disagree. The expectations of the franchise are a comfort blanket that ultimately only serves to stifle creativity.

Yup. Expectations will result in disappointment. It's funny to me how now that we are removed from the original expectations that ENT has received a begrudging acceptance.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Happiness = Reality ÷ Expectations

 

[USS Firefly]

I really wish they hadn't decided to make shows that predate TOS in chronology because they can't help but look weird within the greater context of Trek history.

I agree, I wish they made a Trek show set between Star Trek TUC and TNG. then you have more than 70 years to explore

 

[Richard S. Ta]

The fact that we got both B5 and DS9 at the same time tells me that folks were wanting a space station based scifi show at that time.

Nope. All that tells you is that creatives wanted to try to make a show on a station. Neither example you mention was a hit so the idea it was something people wanted doesn’t carry any weight. Babylon 5 faced cancellation every year and DS9 lost viewers with each season.

‘Folks’ were not interested.

 

[Herbert]

Hard disagree. The expectations of the franchise are a comfort blanket that ultimately only serves to stifle creativity.

We’d never have had DS9 at all if this was a concern.

Who knows, maybe we would have had something better.

Expectations stifle creativity. I've heard the same said about continuity. Maybe these writers and producers would have been forced to be more creative had they been required to stay within the expectations/continuity.

 

[Dukhat]

I’m not quite sure I agree with that. If I have a story I want to tell, and someone tells me that I can only fit my story into an already established universe, that’s going to stifle my creativity. Now with that said: sure, it’s entirely possible that changing my story to fit said universe might actually make my story better, but that’s by no means a certainty.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Maybe these writers and producers would have been forced to be more creative had they been required to stay within the expectations/continuity.

Those expectations are what made Enterprise Season 1 and 2 into a reskinned retread of TNG though... Especially as by that point Voyager had already taken flak for staying too rigidly within the TNG formula. I like the Berman years. I like them a lot actually. It's at that point though where, taking DS9 as an outlier, Star Trek really started to Define itself with a capital B. You go through those years in the 25 Years books and there's so much talk from TPTB such as Berman (as well as Braga) at points that Star Trek must be X and not Y. Hence Enterprise and Voyager operating in a very similar way to TNG narratively.

Compare that to these days. We presently have five new Trek shows that are unrestrained. We have a Nickelodeon animation, an animated comedy show, a 32nd Century show that's heavy on social messaging, a quieter character piece making up a capstone to TNG and a TOS nostalgia throwback. Some are serialised. Some aren't. Each has a different approach to it's storytelling and caters to a different audience. That literally could never have happened in the Berman era because they had a too rigid idea of what Star Trek could and couldn't be.

YMMV on which side is better between Berman/Streaming Trek, I like both. But I think I prefer the modern approach in terms of the variety of Star Trek that we get now. Lower Decks does not feel like Picard and likewise Picard does not feel like Strange New Worlds. However, for me at least, all feel like Star Trek.