Spoilers Seeming contradiction between S2 finale and Season 1 (spoilers for S2 finale)

[Yistaan]

So, Klingons may want to kill certain Starfleet personnel like Spock? How is that different from a day ending in "Y"? Other than that, I don't see how it makes much difference among Starfleet.

Fair enough, I guess it would only matter if Gorkon was Kol's brother or something.

I'm actually more concerned now about the revelation in the interview http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/04/interview-star-trek-discovery-season-finale-michelle-paradise/ that Yeoman Colt was always meant to be an alien (and this is probably canonized in the credits?), as this completely messes up the plot of the Cage and the Talosian intentions of breeding her with Pike.

 

[Alan Roi]

Fair enough, I guess it would only matter if Gorkon was Kol's brother or something.

I'm actually more concerned now about the revelation in the interview http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/04/interview-star-trek-discovery-season-finale-michelle-paradise/ that Yeoman Colt was always meant to be an alien (and this is probably canonized in the credits?), as this completely messes up the plot of the Cage and the Talosian intentions of breeding her with Pike.

Well, its been established that most humanoids can breed with each other in Trek, and hybrids often do have superior characteristics.

 

[SolarisOne]

As a big fan of David Mack's novel, i actually like this idea. It's in my headcanon now.

Control abides. The future... is secure.

Well, its been established that most humanoids can breed with each other in Trek, and hybrids often do have superior characteristics.

Peter David takes this a step further. In New Frontier, most of his characters can interbreed without any intervention at all--Burgoyne 172 and Selar or Soleta and Calhoun, for instance. Thing is, both Burgy and Calhoun have iron-based blood and Vulcanoids have copper-based blood. I don't get how that is supposed to work.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

^^^ It's magic.

 

[Longinus]

I have a feeling that the Control of the show was nowhere as insidiously hidden as it was in the novel. In the novel, Control essentially ran the Federation and could take action based on perceived threats.

It was everywhere, in every bit of Federation life.

It actually had an interesting overall theme, "what is the cost of paradise?"

Sounds disgusting, I'm glad they didn't copy that.

 

[David cgc]

Sounds disgusting, I'm glad they didn't copy that.

Yes, rather than a secret Federation cyber-Stasi of dubious efficacy but terrifying power, we got a public Federation actual-Stasi in the retooled Section 31 that's just completely inept. So much better.

Also, book!Control's pervasiveness meant people were actually careful about when and how they talked about discovering it and dealing with it, rather than speaking their plans aloud next to voice-controlled computers they knew TV!Control had infiltrated which they then used in an attempt to purge Control. "Spock, I'm going to tell the computer Control is in our plan and what we expect to see if it works, then tell the computer to do that. When the display says we're successful, I will blithely assume that's the case, and not that the computer, which is the thing working against us, is just showing me what I want to see."

 

[gblews]

In 70 to 80 years or so, after a generation has died off, if Burnham and Disco have been historically buried, no one will remember her or Discovery. Any Vulcans who are still alive would certainly not tell, and even they will eventually die off.

So, what's so hard to believe about erasing Burnham and Disco from history?

 

[Yistaan]

In 70 to 80 years or so, after a generation has died off, if Burnham and Disco have been historically buried, no one will remember her or Discovery. Any Vulcans who are still alive would certainly not tell, and even they will eventually die off.

So, what's so hard to believe about erasing Burnham and Disco from history?

Picard mind melded with Sarek. Then demanded reopening Spore Drive research offscreen in TNG.

 

[Longinus]

Yes, rather than a secret Federation cyber-Stasi of dubious efficacy but terrifying power, we got a public Federation actual-Stasi in the retooled Section 31 that's just completely inept. So much better.

It is not better, both are terrible. I don't want any sort of Federation Stasi. "What is the cost of paradise?" questioning is one thing that needs to stop. The 'cost' isn't having secret murder squads of leather-clad edgelords, it is trying to be decent people really hard.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Turns out there was never a Michael Burnham who started the Klingon War it was woman named Nicholas Singepastrami who was raised on Andoria by Shran and his human wife Angela. She had a half Human-half Andorian brother named Shrock.

 

[The Wormhole]

Even if all Starfleet personnel eventually adapt to not speaking of Burnham and learn to act normally about the massive coverup around one of the Federation's most infamous figures, nothing is stopping the Klingons from screaming about her every chance they get. Kor should be challenging Spock to a duel upon learning of his identity in Errand of Mercy to avenge the slayer of T'Kuvma, as should every Klingon Spock encounters across his life (and there are a lot).

The Klingons also altered their records. According to General Martok, Klingons never considered a direct attack on Earth. Which would seem to contradict Klingons having a beachhead in the Sol system and a Klingon attack fleet making it all the way to Earth orbit before being called back. But if that's been wiped from the records, then Martok is telling the truth, as he knows it.

 

[BillJ]

...it is trying to be decent people really hard.

Then you're just diving into hardcore fantasy. Humanity will never be on the same page to that degree.

 

[BillJ]

The Klingons also altered their records.

Which is silly, as they would have no reason to alter their records.

 

[The Wormhole]

Which is silly, as they would have no reason to alter their records.

The whole change the records because canon is silly to begin with. But if we feel we need to find a logical reason for why would the Klingons would feel compelled to change their records, Tyler asked L'Rell and she can't say no to him. It makes about as much sense as this whole scenario anyway.

 

[Kemaiku]

Thing is, both Burgy and Calhoun have iron-based blood and Vulcanoids have copper-based blood. I don't get how that is supposed to work.

Hemocyanin is found in animals on Earth so it can be manufactured naturally by mammals here. Vulcans have large amounts of it and hybrids with Humans have small amounts of hemoglobin. So oddly both species have each others main oxygen carrier in reversed amounts in cross breeding, implying a biological pathway exists to allow it without medical intervention.

 

[Yistaan]

The Klingons also altered their records. According to General Martok, Klingons never considered a direct attack on Earth. Which would seem to contradict Klingons having a beachhead in the Sol system and a Klingon attack fleet making it all the way to Earth orbit before being called back. But if that's been wiped from the records, then Martok is telling the truth, as he knows it.

What episode did Martok say this?

 

[The Wormhole]

What episode did Martok say this?

The Changing Face of Evil, in response to the Breen's attack on Earth. Here's the line:

SISKO: I had a lot of friends in those buildings. Starfleet was able to destroy most of the Breen attack force, but by then most of the damage had been done.
MARTOK: We must give the enemy credit. To launch an attack against Starfleet Headquarters. Even my people never attempted that. We've learned one thing about the Breen today, Captain. They're a race of warriors.

 

[Yistaan]

The Changing Face of Evil, in response to the Breen's attack on Earth. Here's the line:

It's definitely a contradiction. In-universe, the only thing I can think of is that the Klingons rewrote history to erase the fact that L'Rell became chancellor through Federation blackmail.

Gowron rewrote history to erase Picard's involvement in his election.

 

[David cgc]

It is not better, both are terrible. I don't want any sort of Federation Stasi. "What is the cost of paradise?" questioning is one thing that needs to stop. The 'cost' isn't having secret murder squads of leather-clad edgelords, it is trying to be decent people really hard.

I agree, which is why I preferred the novel to DSC’s take on the idea. Something that started as a glorified tip-line just kept getting more and more ambitious without anyone ever knowing, and when it was discovered and stopped, people asked themselves if they’d been living a lie and would decide, by their future actions without a secret murder-computer watching their backs, if that was the case.

Conversely, DSC blithely asserts that hard men doing hard things is a necessary foundation for any democracy, that decency is a lie the sheeple are told to keep them compliant, and that everybody in charge knows about it, and it’s probably not a well-considered critique of human nature, but an excuse to keep Michelle Yeoh on the payroll by having her play Space-Bourne, so they can’t repudiate Section 31 in any meaningful way, which the books have.

 

[The Wormhole]

It's definitely a contradiction. In-universe, the only thing I can think of is that the Klingons rewrote history to erase the fact that L'Rell became chancellor through Federation blackmail.

Gowron rewrote history to erase Picard's involvement in his election.

​

Yeah, like I said the official record was changed.