Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread

[HotRod]

Sure, why not? I'll give it a shot, like anything with the name Star Trek attached to it.

I'll admit I have my issues with the character. She's kinda beyond any point of redemption..... way beyond. But maybe that will be a plot point. Regardless, I'll give it a shot. Yeoh is an amazing actress and we should be glad to still have her, in whatever capacity.

I wonder what era the setting will be? We're we ever told which era she was being sent back too?

The one thing I'm most excited for is this new TV movie format. As others have said, maybe this is a chance to see things we otherwise wouldn't... could I finally get my Romulan War/Birth of the Federation movie?

Be still my heart....

 

[Quinton]

The one thing I'm most excited for is this new TV movie format.

Me too, Commander Shepard.

 

[NCC-73515]

Smoking has made a comeback with vapes, etc. All can cause harm to health that aren't immediately apparent. Yet the macho Rios is seen with a cigar, and they even go so far as to describe a macho "heroic" death with a cigar in hand or some nonsense.

At least in S3 it's the villain who smokes

 

[BillJ]

Huh. Never thought anything would get made on this front. Props to Paramount+ for at least producing something for fans of the concept that has been teased since 2018.

 

[fireproof78]

Honestly, your statement seems kind of facetious given where we are, and the history of Star Trek up until now.

No, not really. It was a interesting idea that Star Trek somehow carries weight in the social sphere. I don't believe it does.

It has always been about real world politics. Star Trek has always been invested in real world politics.

So it has. And I will not discuss further.

 

[Uhura's Song]

I adore Michelle Yeoh, but I really am not looking forward to a Section 31 film when we live in an era that tends to glorify militarism and the violation of human rights as being "for the greater good," especially focused on a universe, like Star Trek, where humanity has grown and realized a little bit of "security" is not worth the loss of essential freedoms. It just seems like a regressive step.

You seem pretty confident that the movie will be regressive. As have some other posters. How about we reserve judgment until it comes out?

 

[JoseNoodles]

And people wanted a Garak front show, if I recall correctly.

But Georgiou? That's too far!

People will forgive a lot if you're witty and sardonic.

 

[Amaris]

You seem pretty confident that the movie will be regressive. As have some other posters. How about we reserve judgment until it comes out?

If I were confident, I wouldn't have misgivings. I wouldn't use the word "if" to indicate that it might or might not head in that direction, and then there's the very specific sentences where I said it could end up not being what I'm concerned it might be.

I've already said I will be giving it a chance, but that I have concerns. I'm fairly certain that's not "confident" it will be regressive.

 

[ananta]

The Trek characters are always in the Ten Forward bar, and I don't think they're drinking lemonade.

Oh, the humanity!

I'll admit I have my issues with the character. She's kinda beyond any point of redemption..... way beyond. But maybe that will be a plot point.

That’s an interesting topic for discussion right there. It kind of flies against Trek’s core humanistic philosophy, for me, to say that there are such things are irredeemable people. Let’s say, even if somebody has the personality structure of a psychopath, as many do, if that person consciously manages their darker impulses and fights only to do good things, to help rather than harm others, couldn’t such a person be considered redeemed? By the choices they make in the moment? Doesn’t mean you write off past crimes; certain things must be atoned for. Yet each moment we can choose to be different. each moment we can be redeemed; whatever that might mean.

I found the Georgiou arc in DSC S3 quite affecting, right down to her returning to the Mirror Universe and realising she was not that person anymore. Her environment had changed her, for the better. That’s just the essence of Star Trek for me. Rather than just showing already perfect people, as in TNG, why not show people consciously moving from dark to light; there’s much more drama to be found there.

 

[Yistaan]

Oh, the humanity!

Because a relative being injured in a drunk driving crash and having to reflect in my own life (despite not ever drinking or having been involved in said crash) how such a horror that lasts to this day can be avoided is a punchline for other posters apparently.

 

[fireproof78]

I found the Georgiou arc in DSC S3 quite affecting, right down to her returning to the Mirror Universe and realising she was not that person anymore. Her environment had changed her, for the better. That’s so Star Trek for me.

Well put. Very well put. To me Georgiou, like Quark and Garak before her, represent that idealism in it's purest form. You can't tell me humanity has evolved and then deny the opportunity for that evolution. It strikes me as odd to say we won't humanity to evolve but when a person who wasn't raised with the choice is given opportunity to choose to be different it can't explored in dramatic form because...it will send the wrong message?

 

[Noname Given]

Except this time they're purposely flirting with fascism in an environment where fascism and nationalism are on the rise. If it's not something strong enough that repels the fascist narrative, then it's propaganda, and that is something we should be aware of. I don't want Star Trek platforming fascism and fascists as something worth exploring because it might be for "the greater good."

You might feel I'm reading too much into it, but I feel there are people minimizing the harm it could cause. We live in a culture of monkey see, monkey do. The examples I gave earlier show how media presentation can either harm or help movements, and Star Trek is no different from that.

Sooo...Gul Dukat on/in DS9 territory (and they flirted with redemption for him in that show from time to time.)

 

[Amaris]

Sooo...Gul Dukat on/in DS9 territory (and they flirted with redemption for him in that show from time to time.)

Dukat was certainly a nuanced character, and rarely is anything so obviously black and white (I mean, until season 7 where they dropped the ball, and turned him into a scene chewing mega-villain), but yes, as much as I love Marc Alaimo, I would consider Gul Dukat to be on the same level as a concentration camp Commandant, who would deserve punishment for his crimes. Just because someone is charismatic and can seem intimately personable doesn't mean they have redeemed themselves.

DS9 hammered this point home very well. While you could sympathize with him from time to time, as one does with most people, it was never lost that he was at odds with the protagonists, because his history showed him to be untrustworthy. Everyone went into this eyes open.

I'm not sure they're going to take the same approach with the Section 31 series. Hence, my misgivings.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You seem pretty confident that the movie will be regressive. As have some other posters. How about we reserve judgment until it comes out?

Even with Georgiou as the lead I doubt the film will be a celebration of fascism.

 

[fireproof78]

Even with Georgiou as the lead I doubt the film will a celebration of fascism.

Probably not. At most it will glorify action, and adventure and violence, which I'm sure is bad too.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Probably not. At most it will glorify action, and adventure and violence, which I'm sure is bad too.

With a positive moral at that end. In other words, Star Trek.

 

[Tuskin38]

Assuming they take the path condemning Section 31 as a useless, hateful, dangerous organization that needs destroyed, I would agree. If, however, it ends up as I mentioned before, that it's a well-intentioned organization with a few "bad apples," that Georgiou "reforms" the system by removing those bad apples, then the show will just make fascism more appealing, like police dramas make the police look far more competent and virtuous than they are.

That is the concern.

None of the new series have treated Section 31 as a good thing. They've also been shown to be horribly incompetent in the recent stories.

Dukat was certainly a nuanced character, and rarely is anything so obviously black and white (I mean, until season 7 where they dropped the ball, and turned him into a scene chewing mega-villain), but yes, as much as I love Marc Alaimo, I would consider Gul Dukat to be on the same level as a concentration camp Commandant, who would deserve punishment for his crimes. Just because someone is charismatic and can seem intimately personable doesn't mean they have redeemed themselves.

According to Ira, the DS9 writers were scared of how much people were loving Dukat and seeing him positively, that's why they tried to double down on his horrible side.

 

[Amaris]

None of the new series have treated Section 31 as a good thing. They've also been shown to be horribly incompetent in the recent stories.


The DS9 writers were afraid of how much people were loving Duakt, and thinking he was an ok dude.

Hence why it has to be handled carefully. DS9 ended up handling it in a more abrupt manner, but at least they handled it. People have this unnerving penchant to forgive dangerous figures too quickly because they have personable traits. It's the danger of dehumanizing them to the point where they just seem like monsters (real life example: G.W. Bush). I tell people there's no such thing as monsters, only humans who do monstrous things. To bust out the old expression, even Hitler loved his dogs.

I'm concerned the same thing can happen here. It's not an unwarranted concern given the state of things today.

 

[fireproof78]

With a positive moral at that end. In other words, Star Trek.

Yup. Kirk kills people, and threatened planetary destruction but that's ok. He gave a speech.

Maybe there will be speech. Or like the Winter Soldier.

 

[Cr0sis21]

I'm sure Ira Behr is incensed about this news. He didn't even want to comment on it, but he is not happy at all with the way Sec 31 is being handled. I only hope this movie does not try to portray the organization in some sort of heroic light.