Spoilers Section 31: Control by David Mack Review Thread

[trash80]

Just finished reading this, very enjoyable though the idea of pretty much all of Star Trek being the whim of a near omipotent AI is fascinating and maybe a bit disquieting

 

[Damian]

Just finished reading this, very enjoyable though the idea of pretty much all of Star Trek being the whim of a near omipotent AI is fascinating and maybe a bit disquieting

Yeah, it was an excellent book I thought, and tragic too. After this story Dr Bashir is featured again in the DS9 book "Enigma Tales" though that is more of a Garak story.

It reminded me a lot of the show "Person of Interest" which I really enjoyed and has a similar premise re: the AI (and even has a human lackey called "Control" on it)

 

[trash80]

The ideas in the novel are challenging and make you question something you love (Star Trek), that makes it a very good book. You should always have unanswered questions and events swirling in your mind after reading a novel, not just "meh time for a cup of tea"

 

[14thDoctor]

But I'm not big on the idea of the Kelvin's arrival causing retroactive changes.

Isn't it inevitable, considering how often Kirk and company influenced the past themselves? Not even considering the crews of other Starfleet vessels.

 

[David cgc]

Isn't it inevitable, considering how often Kirk and company influenced the past themselves? Not even considering the crews of other Starfleet vessels.

On the other hand, consider that many times someone came from the "future" to the "present" in Trek, they were from a future that didn't come to pass. All the Prime crews' adventures pre-2233 may well have happened in the Kelvin timeline as well (along with any KT time-travel to their common past).

 

[thribs]

Obviously Terminator isn’t a thing in the Star Trek universe. Otherwise they wouldn’t have created that AI.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

On the other hand, consider that many times someone came from the "future" to the "present" in Trek, they were from a future that didn't come to pass. All the Prime crews' adventures pre-2233 may well have happened in the Kelvin timeline as well (along with any KT time-travel to their common past).

The divergence in 2233 doesn't wipe out the prime timeline, so it is still a possible future. Prior to 2233, there is one timeline, and after it, there's two. BOTH are possible, and still happen. Characters from both timelines could, theoretically, travel back to before 2233 and meet each other...

And no, I don't buy the "changing the past" bit either. That's just something Simon Pegg made up. It simply doesn't make logical sense for time travel to change events that happened BEFORE it. So I prefer to ignore the whole thing.

(I mean, if Pegg was so eager to explain why the Kelvin films have such a unique look...he could have just said that this universe was always different, even before Nero's interference. I might have even bought that...)

 

[marlboro]

I think David Mack is one of the best Trek writers out there. He probably has written more Trek books that I would put in the "outstanding" category than any other writer. Having said that, I think this book is a rare misstep. The idea that Control was behind so much of Trek history is just a bridge too far for me. It just undercuts too many other great Trek stories. You would have to have a truly amazing story to make the "everthing you know is a lie!" revelation worthwhile, imo, and this book doesn't live up to that impossibly lofty standard, i'm afraid.

When I finished the book, I couldn't help but be reminded of the "Clone Saga" Spider-Man story that came out when I was a kid. The story itself may be ok, but the damage it does to prior stories is its undoing.

 

[Stephen!]

I see no reason why ships larger than the Prime Constitution class couldn't have existed before the 2260s. Hell, the Discovery is canonically larger than the NCC-1701 Enterprise within the Prime Timeline, and the so is the D'Kyr-type from ENT.

Perhaps, similar to what happened in the 2009 Star Trek, the temporal cold war / Xindi attack altered the timeline, resulting in an emphasis on building larger and more powerful ships sooner than it otherwise might have happened.

 

[Christopher]

Perhaps, similar to what happened in the 2009 Star Trek, the temporal cold war / Xindi attack altered the timeline, resulting in an emphasis on building larger and more powerful ships sooner than it otherwise might have happened.

In-story, Discovery is supposed to be the same timeline as TOS. The differences in appearance are differences in the artistic interpretation of that timeline.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the temporal cold war / Xindi attack altered the timeline, resulting in an emphasis on building larger and more powerful ships sooner than it otherwise might have happened.

The difference is, those events were always part of the timeline. Even the TCW.

You can't prove they weren't, anyway.

 

[Stephen!]

It's stated in the episode, "Carpenter Street", that these events weren't supposed to happen. http://www.chakoteya.net/Enterprise/63.htm

DANIELS: History doesn't mention anything about a conflict between humans and Xindi.
ARCHER: How could that be?
DANIELS: The events that are taking place are the result of temporal incursions. They are not supposed to be happening.
ARCHER: But they are happening.
DANIELS: Yes, they are, but the outcome hasn't reached us yet. It takes a while for changes to ripple through the time line.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ But who's to say that the timeline Daniels remembers IS the prime timeline? The history HE remembers doesn't necessarily have to be the correct one.

 

[thribs]

Maybe he’s referring to the war that we know happen in the JJVerse. It was really only Archer who was in conflict with them, not the entire human race.

 

[Christopher]

It's stated in the episode, "Carpenter Street", that these events weren't supposed to happen.

Not in Daniels's timeline, no, but we were never told that Daniels's timeline was the exact same one TOS-VGR took place in. It had a lot in common, sure, but my interpretation has always been that it was a slightly different timeline that was altered by the TCW into the Trek timeline as we've always known it.

After all, we've always assumed in the novels that ENT is part of the same history as the previous series. If that were wrong, CBS wouldn't have let us write the books that way.

 

[JD]

That was the way I always interpreted it too.

 

[thribs]

Looks like the actual writers of DS9 have a very different take on Section 31 from the novels. I prefer this take however.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sorry for the bump, but I thought this was interesting...

Spoiler: new episode

Control was actually mentioned, by name, as being in charge of Section 31, in the DSC episode "Point of Light"

@David Mack, did you know about this? It wasn't specifically said outright to be the same one, but it's pretty obvious it is.

 

[marlboro]

Sorry for the bump, but I thought this was interesting...

Spoiler: new episode

Control was actually mentioned, by name, as being in charge of Section 31, in the DSC episode "Point of Light"

Somebody else recently asked the same question. His reply:

@David Mack, did you know about this? It wasn't specifically said outright to be the same one, but it's pretty obvious it is.

You might like to think so… but it's not.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

damn