Spoilers Secret Invasion grade and discussion

[Reverend]

It implies the Skrulls may not have been 100% blameless in the Kree War. Sometimes there are villains on both sides.

I think it's less about blame per-see, and more about the lengths they went to to fight back when they could have retreated. There's really no "two sides" when it comes to mass genocide and pogroms. The Kree set out to wipe out an entire species, and my inference from that line is that there were some Skrulls that fought more for revenge and spite than just survival, and the end result was only a million survivors where there could have been a billion or three.
Victory at any cost sounds like an inspiring thing until you see what is left when the cost is "almost everything". Nobody wins a war like that.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

So why bother creating the Avengers when he had the Skrulls at his disposal?

Because a handful of Skrulls would have done what exactly against Loki's army?

 

[Charles Phipps]

I think it's less about blame per-see, and more about the lengths they went to to fight back when they could have retreated. There's really no "two sides" when it comes to mass genocide and pogroms.

There, in fact, are historically cultures that have tried to commit genocide and the culture they're fighting attempts to commit genocide right back. Several that have occurred within my 40 year lifetime, in fact. Which is what I'm getting at.

In the comics, the Skrulls have attempted genocide against the Kree as well.

It's possible that at some point during the Kree and Skrull wars that the Kree might have been amendable to ceasefires or peace but the Skrulls continued the conflict. Which is to say, the Kree may not be Space Nazis but [insert other group].

I'm not sure the MCU is very good at that kind of nuance. Good guys and bad guys shifting in wartime.

 

[Reverend]

There, in fact, are historically cultures that have tried to commit genocide and the culture they're fighting attempts to commit genocide right back. Several that have occurred within my 40 year lifetime, in fact. Which is what I'm getting at.

In the comics, the Skrulls have attempted genocide against the Kree as well.

It's possible that at some point during the Kree and Skrull wars that the Kree might have been amendable to ceasefires or peace but the Skrulls continued the conflict. Which is to say, the Kree may not be Space Nazis but [insert other group].

I'm not sure the MCU is very good at that kind of nuance. Good guys and bad guys shifting in wartime.

My point being; "blame" is not an appropriate term for this king of thing. Genocide really is one of those things where it actually matters who initiated it, and in this case that seems to be the Kree, so the blame unequivocally lies with them. Nothing the Skrulls did after the fact absolves the Kree, or justifies the Skrull genocide.

What the Skrulls did in response, how it may or may not have ultimately been counter-productive for them, or how it negatively impacted those they sought shelter with is a tragedy all of it's own. They are still responsible for their own actions, but it's the Kree that created the whole mess in the first place . . . at least so far as we know.
There may yet be more to the story as yet untold, but we'll have to wait and see. It's possible there was once an all conquering Skrull Empire thousands of years ago when this all started, and a war of aggression between the two galactic empires of Skrull and Kree degenerated into a genocidal rout once Skrullos fell. But that's all speculative; this is all we have to work with right now.

 

[Charles Phipps]

My point being; "blame" is not an appropriate term for this king of thing. Genocide really is one of those things where it actually matters who initiated it, and in this case that seems to be the Kree, so the blame unequivocally lies with them. Nothing the Skrulls did after the fact absolves the Kree, or justifies the Skrull genocide.

What the Skrulls did in response, how it may or may not have ultimately been counter-productive for them, or how it negatively impacted those they sought shelter with is a tragedy all of it's own. They are still responsible for their own actions, but it's the Kree that created the whole mess in the first place . . . at least so far as we know.
There may yet be more to the story as yet untold, but we'll have to wait and see. It's possible there was once an all conquering Skrull Empire thousands of years ago when this all started, and a war of aggression between the two galactic empires of Skrull and Kree degenerated into a genocidal rout once Skrullos fell. But that's all speculative; this is all we have to work with right now.

I dunno, if the Skrulls tried to wipe out the Kree and then the Kree tried to wipe out the Skrulls. I.e. "The MAD situation except one party really did win." I feel like, "Who started it" doesn't matter for the billions killed that aren't involved in the decision.

Because the answer in the comic books would not be "the Kree" or "The Skrulls." It would be the Skrull Emperor or the Supreme Intelligence.

 

[Starkers]

The second episode was better, Olivia Coleman was great, by all accounts a lovely woman but she plays scary very well! (she plays everything very well to be honest)

Gaia is definitely working for someone or has some kind of agenda. I hope it's something surprising rather than the obvious "she was a good guy all along"

As has been noted Fury's train recollections felt like they were actually Jacksons. I though the conversation between Fury and Rhodes was very good as well.

 

[Charles Phipps]

The second episode was better, Olivia Coleman was great, by all accounts a lovely woman but she plays scary very well! (she plays everything very well to be honest)

Gaia is definitely working for someone or has some kind of agenda. I hope it's something surprising rather than the obvious "she was a good guy all along"

As has been noted Fury's train recollections felt like they were actually Jacksons. I though the conversation between Fury and Rhodes was very good as well.

The writing for Nick Fury stories about black experiences are always very memorable. His story of his grandfather and the handgun for example.

 

[Turtletrekker]

It implies the Skrulls may not have been 100% blameless in the Kree War. Sometimes there are villains on both sides.

Talos said as much in Captain Marvel.
"This is war. My hands are filthy from it too."

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't actually remember the causes/stated causes for the Skrull/Kree war in the comics so this is entirely me guessing about the series.

I wonder if perhaps the Skrulls actually 'started' the war with the Kree by infiltration and the Kree's response was to decide EVERY SINGLE Skrull must die so that there can be none to ever pose as a Kree and cause whatever damage they caused again.

Skrulls discover the Kree and the Coati and decide to hold a contest to determine which will be the recipient of Skrull generosity. Taken to Earths moon, the Kree build a city (the city the Watcher now lives in) and Coati make a garden. The Skrulls like the garden. The Kree get mad and kill the Skrulls and the Coati. They then steal the Skrulls tech and forge an Empire.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Skrulls discover the Kree and the Coati and decide to hold a contest to determine which will be the recipient of Skrull generosity. Taken to Earths moon, the Kree build a city (the city the Watcher now lives in) and Coati make a garden. The Skrulls like the garden. The Kree get mad and kill the Skrulls and the Coati. They then steal the Skrulls tech and forge an Empire.

Yep, the Skrulls in the comics were originally decent people. The 10,000 year war makes them monsters.

 

[Anwar]

Yup. The uniform and salute gives it away. Group Captain going by the rank insignia, though given the occasion and that he's stood next to a bunch of 4 star US Generals it's probably supposed to be the Station Commander RAF Northolt, specifically (which I think would be a Group Captain by rank.)

Remind me, a Group Captain in the RAF is the equivalent of a full Colonel in the Air Force?

 

[Anwar]

The MCU has never been that completely effective in portraying progressive issues in its productions. Also, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of the Skrulls deciding to invade Earth because Fury spent time in space, while having an extentional crisis. It's just so dumb to me.

They didn't decide to invade, Talos survived the snap and figured with how Earth was seriously depopulated and it didn't look like that would change he'd just call the surviving Skrulls and tell them they could live on Earth now.

Then the Blip happened and...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Remind me, a Group Captain in the RAF is the equivalent of a full Colonel in the Air Force?

No, it's an equivalent of a lieutenant colonel.

 

[Wingcommanderdarkwolf01]

No, it's an equivalent of a lieutenant colonel.

No That would Wing commander.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Oops, you're right. I misread what I looked up.

 

[Dee1891]

Because a handful of Skrulls would have done what exactly against Loki's army?

A handful? I think you're describing the Avengers.

 

[Commander Troi]

So why bother creating the Avengers when he had the Skrulls at his disposal?

I think the Avengers were created for big, public, fights against alien threats, while the Skrulls were being used for intelligence and counter-intelligence spy work.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

A handful? I think you're describing the Avengers.

There are only a handful of Skrulls in that recruitment scene. Talos explicitly says that the million Skrulls only came to Earth after Fury was dead (during the blip).

 

[Tuskin38]

Gaia is definitely working for someone or has some kind of agenda. I hope it's something surprising rather than the obvious "she was a good guy all along"

I don't think she was good all along, just not as into the extreme ends as her boss.
And I think her father may of gotten through to her a bit.

 

[Reverend]

I think the Avengers were created for big, public, fights against alien threats, while the Skrulls were being used for intelligence and counter-intelligence spy work.

Exactly. Skrulls working for SHIELD would have been spies and infiltrators, not fighters. We saw in 'Captain Marvel' that the whole point of the Protector Avenger Initiative was to find individuals like Carol that could stand up against a global threat. If Skrulls could do that, then they wouldn't need to hide in the first place.

I think a more pertinent question here is not what SHEILD's Skrull agents were doing when Loki and Ultron were havign big CG fights, but rather: "how the hell did Hydra evade them?"
Fury was completely blindsided (no pun intended.)