Seasons 1-2 or 3-4?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Because of where she started. Imagine her becoming a captain at the end of Season 1. The outcry would have been huge and the character even more maligned than when she became captain at the end of Season 3.

Then I would've changed the starting point of the series and have SMG be Captain from the onset or near the beginning after Phillipa Geogious dies without having a mutiny.

See above. As the story started out, it was not a smart move.

See above on how I would've changed her starting point.

Cool. I don't.

I want to see positive realiastic relationships. I do not want to see romantic relationships if it can be avoided. That is not my choice in Star Trek.

Well, that's your particular preference, you're entitled to it.

I want to see good relationship building, including romance that is realistic.

I'm really PRO: Michael Burnham × Cleveland Booker
I want to see them be happily married, with children, watch their kids grow up.

 

[fireproof78]

Then I would've changed the starting point of the series and have SMG be Captain from the onset or near the beginning after Phillipa Geogious dies without having a mutiny.

Agreed.

Well, that's your particular preference, you're entitled to it.

I want to see good relationship building, including romance that is realistic.

I'm really PRO: Michael Burnham × Cleveland Booker
I want to see them be happily married, with children, watch their kids grow up.

Here's my thing-"realistic relationships" in a TV format is difficult. Are you going to show the struggles that come with marriage, fights, conflicts over parenting? Are you going to sanitize it and have everything neatly wrapped up by the end? Are you going to show marriage as hard work?

That's why I struggle with it. It isn't a preference so much as it it is "This hasn't been done well, so I don't trust them to do it well." Relationships are hard work. They demand effort. It's not effort I have seen Trek willing to invest too much in, or when it does it is sporadic at best.

Telling me I'm "entitled" to my preference is nice and all but doesn't address my discomfort at all.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Here's my thing-"realistic relationships" in a TV format is difficult.

Are you going to show the struggles that come with marriage, fights, conflicts over parenting?

Yes

Are you going to sanitize it and have everything neatly wrapped up by the end?

No

Are you going to show marriage as hard work?

Yes

That's why I struggle with it. It isn't a preference so much as it it is "This hasn't been done well, so I don't trust them to do it well." Relationships are hard work. They demand effort. It's not effort I have seen Trek willing to invest too much in, or when it does it is sporadic at best.

I concur, that's why I want them to go all in on it.

Telling me I'm "entitled" to my preference is nice and all but doesn't address my discomfort at all.

Not much more we can do since we're the peanut gallery hollaring to the PTB (Powers That Be) @ Paramount

 

[fireproof78]

Snip

Your quote tag is not working right.

So, I will just say good luck; we're all counting you.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Your quote tag is not working right.

I was in the middle of fixin it.

 

[fireproof78]

I concur, that's why I want them to go all in on it.

I wish you luck in this.

 

[shapeshifter]

Uh-oh. I think I just realized, we are the focus group they are trying to please.

And, I also just realized, we're touching on something I have been bleating about for the last couple weeks - this feeling that DISC is more like TOS than even we are aware of.

Go back and watch TOS, count the number of times characters say; I feel... or I think... Hell we're even doing it here! Nearly every post - "I think... I feel..."

Why the hell was McCoy always on the bridge instead of sickbay? To tell Kirk what he felt, what he thought!!! Dammit Jim!

 

[eschaton]

I like that Saru is still in DSC, don't get me wrong, but if I were in their universe and not watching this on TV, I'd say that I think Saru should be Captain of the Voyager-J.

They've done Saru raw these past two seasons, TBH. In Season 3 they sort of implied that he was unfit for command leading up to the finale, but it seemed like they pulled back at the last second, and he decided to give up command willingly. Then he was a "Captain without portfolio" this season - technically serving as Michael's XO, but seldom actually seen in a position of authority when she was away from the ship.

Then I would've changed the starting point of the series and have SMG be Captain from the onset or near the beginning after Phillipa Geogious dies without having a mutiny.

I think the scenario set up in the Season 1 prologue was a good one, it's just that the writers refused to hold themselves to it.

Basically, the way it could have worked would be a more serious version of Mariner from Lower Decks. Have Michael fall, and them work to redeem herself, but since she would be very low on the totem pole, she would be pretty far away from the action in the Klingon War (even if the Spore Drive exists - I think it was a mistake ultimately). The drama comes from her attempts to rebuild her career and her psyche, not the ship blowing things up. She's not in the center of the action, she's mostly just hanging out with her roommate, Tilly.

This would have been bold and new in terms of Trek storytelling. But the writers also seemed to want to tell an epic high-stakes drama ala Game of Thrones, which meant Michael couldn't just have a normal character arc, but somehow had to be the focal point for so much...crap...over the first two seasons (Klingon sleeper agent in love with her/tries to strangle her, Captain secretly a MU shitheel who also is in love with her, the MU counterpart of her mentor sees her as an adoptive daughter, her real-life mom isn't dead and is traveling through time trying to defeat killer AI, etc.).

 

[fireproof78]

Uh-oh. I think I just realized, we are the focus group they are trying to please.

And, I also just realized, we're touching on something I have been bleating about for the last couple weeks - this feeling that DISC is more like TOS than even we are aware of.

Go back and watch TOS, count the number of times characters say; I feel... or I think... Hell we're even doing it here! Nearly every post - "I think... I feel..."

Why the hell was McCoy always on the bridge instead of sickbay? To tell Kirk what he felt, what he thought!!! Dammit Jim!

Damn it, shapeshifter!

 

[eschaton]

And, I also just realized, we're touching on something I have been bleating about for the last couple weeks - this feeling that DISC is more like TOS than even we are aware of.

Go back and watch TOS, count the number of times characters say; I feel... or I think... Hell we're even doing it here! Nearly every post - "I think... I feel..."

Why the hell was McCoy always on the bridge instead of sickbay? To tell Kirk what he felt, what he thought!!! Dammit Jim!

TOS was famously scripted like a radio play, despite being TV. You can follow basically any TOS episode just as well with the audio only, because everyone is always narrating out loud whatever it is they're doing.

 

[Vger23]

TOS was famously scripted like a radio play, despite being TV. You can follow basically any TOS episode just as well with the audio only, because everyone is always narrating out loud whatever it is they're doing.

In fairness, it was a style that continued on into TNG, except it stood out even more there because it was 20 years later.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Which brings up my next question-do people not connect emotionally with the characters of Discovery?

I can only answer for myself, but no, I didn't connect emotionally with characters this season.

Actually there was one episode where I started to care, and that's when Gray was trying to help Zora in Stormy Weather. People complain that 'even the spaceship's got feelings now!' but that did have my interest. Maybe because it was just the one episode and the plot hadn't become unwelcome due to repetition, maybe because the way the characters are being written lately was a good fit for Zora's nature.

Though for the most part I was watching the characters from a distance this year. No connection.

 

[fireproof78]

I can only answer for myself, but no, I didn't connect emotionally with characters this season.

Actually there was one episode where I started to care, and that's when Gray was trying to help Zora in Stormy Weather. People complain that 'even the spaceship's got feelings now!' but that did have my interest. Maybe because it was just the one episode and the plot hadn't become unwelcome due to repetition, maybe because the way the characters are being written lately was a good fit for Zora's nature.

Though for the most part I was watching the characters from a distance this year. No connection.

That makes sense.

 

[donners22]

In fairness, it was a style that continued on into TNG, except it stood out even more there because it was 20 years later.

Well beyond that; Voyager’s bridge was a constant stream of narration.

 

[Starkers]

If Michael had had a decent narrative arc it would have been interesting to see her rise to command but we didn't get that so it seemed more like a case of right place/ right time and also, horrifyingly, let's put her in the centre seat and see if she can cope which isn't I, imagine, standard Starfleet procedure. It still rankles how Saru and Tilly were handled in S3. But even as someone who's never been a great fan of Michael, she's been okay in the centre seat, better than I expected.

Re the central question it has to be 1&2 for me. They were a mess at times and I didn't always agree with the decisions taken but the show had energy and dynamism, conflict and just general in your face'edness By contrast the show now feels very safe and very cosy. As someone upthread says it feels like you're not allowed to have an argument with someone without being advised you might need therapy!

I'm all for exploring characters emotions and using non violence to solve issues but at times right now the show makes TNG look like Blakes 7! Are we sure the crew haven't been infected by the spores from Omicron Ceti III? At this rate I think they might need a Red Hour soon We used to get a bit of snark from Stamets but he's joined the collective now, which just leaves Reno and we're only allowed 16.4 minutes of her per season!

Also I really miss Tilly.

And my other issue for not liking 3&4 as much is the time jump. It just stretches credulity to breaking point. It's like a Viking longboat turned up today and we not only integrated it and its crew into the Royal Navy, but made them the most important ship in the fleet. I get the spore drive and all that, but the only member of the crew you need for that is Stamets. It could have worked, either if the Burn had knocked everyone back five or six hundred years in their development, or if the crew had been able to use some kind of Krell intellect enhancing machine but neither of these things happened.

Don't get me wrong, contrary to how the above might sound I still really enjoy Disco, it just doesn't quite get my blood pumping the way it once did.

 

[jackoverfull]

Really hard to vote: I really didn’t like much of the first two seasons, but at least things happened, albeit often illogically. Season 3 was mostly pretty nice, but 4 was such a drag.

 

[eschaton]

And my other issue for not liking 3&4 as much is the time jump. It just stretches credulity to breaking point. It's like a Viking longboat turned up today and we not only integrated it and its crew into the Royal Navy, but made them the most important ship in the fleet. I get the spore drive and all that, but the only member of the crew you need for that is Stamets. It could have worked, either if the Burn had knocked everyone back five or six hundred years in their development, or if the crew had been able to use some kind of Krell intellect enhancing machine but neither of these things happened.

My own personal preference for the 32nd century was Star Trek: Left Behind.

There's a big mystery in the Star Trek universe - probably the biggest mystery of all - where are all the old races? The universe is billions of years old after all, yet nearly every technological species we meet in Trek has only been out and about in space for centuries to millennia. We meet the occasional godlike energy beings like Q and the Orgonians, but that's about it.

So, what if it had happened to the Federation during the time skip? At a certain date (let's say about 100 years prior to Discovery's arrival) the entire mainstream part of Federation society ascends into godlike energy beings.

Discovery finds a mostly, but not entirely empty quadrant when it arrives. They soon locate, and travel to Earth and find the surface not full of ruins, but largely pristine with a restored Ice Age ecology, including wooly mammoths - plus some completely incomprehensible artifacts. But they do find a deep storage facility from the 29th century with some remaining individuals in cryostasis, who they thaw out. One becomes a recurring character on the show (a sort of Book analogue) and provides some perspective on how things were going when the Federation was at its height.

Over time they meet others, from isolated colonies of neo-Luddites, to self-aware holos who ended up stranded for a century, to sentient ships lost in pockets of subspace. They start to build together a ragtag coalition of those who for one reason or another, didn't end up being ascended, and they begin to piece together what happened. Basically someone very powerful periodically "clears the deck" by making any civilization which hasn't killed itself off leave the material realm behind. We never actually meet who is behind this (they remain mysterious) but we do get contact with wherever the Federation has gone by the end of the season.

 

[gvn2fly]

The first ones all left beyond the rim..oh wait wrong show!

 

[gvn2fly]

I voted for seasons 3-4. I think I found much of 1 and 2 more exciting and entertaining at times (and more of sesaon 4 boring), the Control/Red Angel arc pretty much ruined season 2 for me.

 

[nic3636]

Here's my ranking of seasons from best to worst with pros and cons for each:

Season 1 - Still my favorite season of the series.
Pros: Lorca, mirror universe, darker tone and style helped make this series unique from what came before.
Cons: The finale and resolution to the Klingon war made no sense.

Season 4 - My second favorite season.
Pros - Solid "Trekian" storyline from start to finish. Finally stuck the landing. Strong supporting cast. Better sci-fi concepts. Burnham as captain worked very well. Zora's sentience was well done.
Cons - Some filler episodes towards the end that were not interesting. Saru wasn't utilized very well.

Season 2 - Had its ups and downs
Pros - Pike and Spock were great characters. If Memory Serves was an amazing episode. The Control / Section 31 plot was interesting.
Cons - Finale didn't make much sense. Seven signals / red angel ended up making no sense. The season was very erratic in many ways.

Season 3 - Mostly wasted potential
Pros - The time jump had a lot of potential at the beginning. Seeing a weakened Federation was intriguing. Georgau's 2 episode send off arc was well done. Vance is the best admiral ever.
Cons - The cause of the burn was stupid. The finale made no sense. The potential offered by the time jump was mostly wasted. Pivoted away from sci-fi concepts and into emotions.