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Season 6: Is it me?

Your not wrong season six starts with a very sudden drop off in quality.

Time's Arrow II 2 stars
Realm of Fear 1.5 Stars
Man of the people 2.0 stars
Relics 4.5 Stars
Schisms 2.0 stars
True Q 2.0 Stars
Rascals 2.5 Stars
A Fistfulof Datas 3.5 Stars
The Quality of Life 3.0 Stars

Pretty much with after Rascals the season picks up in quality with ever episode besides Aquiel, Suspicions & Birthright II getting a ratings of 3.0 Stars or better (which is what I consider good).

Aquiel and Suspicions are both 1.5 Star episodes for me, while Birthright II is 2.5 Stars.

But the first 1/4 of the season is the weakest the show has been since seasons 1 and 2. And with 9 episodes (all my opinion it goes without saying) between from just ok to awful its the more misses then seasons 3, 4 or 5 easily.

The one positive about some of these episodes is that the actors and writers are much more defined, and as such a lot of them will have a nugget or two that is actually good, or a stronger then normal performance in a bad episode. A Character beat that is perfect. Or something like Rascals which has an intriguing story utterly undermined by the events that set it in motion.
 
^^^When giving rankings like that you need to establish the scale. Is it a scale of 1 to 5 stars? That's what I'm assuming.
 
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So I guess you must've missed the first two words of the original post..."So far".

Which you would think would indicate NOT the whole season.

Good job.

:brickwall:

All the stuff I said in my last post, and this is the only thing you chose to reply to? I made my point. Clearly we disagree. Let it go, Indiana.

GOOD! Now you know how I feel! Welcome to my world!

When I started this thread, I was hoping we could discuss some of the early S6 episodes.

You should try reading posts instead of BURNING them.

EnriqueH, drop the personal "advice" and stick to your subject.
 
Your not wrong season six starts with a very sudden drop off in quality.

Time's Arrow II 2 stars
Realm of Fear 1.5 Stars
Man of the people 2.0 stars
Relics 4.5 Stars
Schisms 2.0 stars
True Q 2.0 Stars
Rascals 2.5 Stars
A Fistfulof Datas 3.5 Stars
The Quality of Life 3.0 Stars

For me it's (1-5)

Time's Arrow II 2.5 stars
Realm of Fear 3.0 Stars
Man of the people 2.0 stars
Relics 5.0 Stars
Schisms 2.0 stars
True Q 4.0 Stars (I like this mainly because of original Q, also QA is cute)
Rascals 3.0 Stars
A Fistful of Datas 3.5 Stars
The Quality of Life 3.5 Stars

and the best of S6 is yet to come...
 
:brickwall:

All the stuff I said in my last post, and this is the only thing you chose to reply to? I made my point. Clearly we disagree. Let it go, Indiana.

GOOD! Now you know how I feel! Welcome to my world!

When I started this thread, I was hoping we could discuss some of the early S6 episodes.

You should try reading posts instead of BURNING them.

EnriqueH, drop the personal "advice" and stick to your subject.

That's fine, but you do realize that the "advice" you're referring to is a paraphrase from Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade in keeping with their theme? (My way of saying I'm not serious.)
 
For me, season six is far superior in quality to the lack-lustre mid-season five.

Really, for myself while I think Imaginary Friend is crap, it's the only episode of season 5 I rate under 2 stars ( and in reply to earlier posts I use a 0-5 star system, not a 1-5 system as guessed).

Out of all of five only unification II, new Ground, ethics, and cost of living are 2.0 stars everything g else ranks ok to excellent.

And as for great Trek (4.5-5.0 stars)
Season 5
Darmok, Cause and Effect, the First Duty, I Borg and Inner Light
Season6
Relics, chain of Command 1 & 2 and Tapestry.

But I still think season 6 is overall a strong season of Trek.

For myself it's intrresting that between seasons 3-7 the number of episodes I consider in that 4.5 to 5 stars is fairly consistent with 4 to six classic episodes per season.

One thing that really did bother me from broadcast and DVR release is that I thought that about season 5 was about 6 episodes that were the worst lite episodes of TNG just extremely over lite. Luckily on the blu Rays we see a marked improvement in that department.
 
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So I just finished watching:

A Fistful of Datas---I enjoyed this. It's a kind of Shore Leave type episode, and I enjoy episodes where the crew slows down. Not everything needs to be a Borg, Cardassian or Romulan incursion or diplomatic drama. I just didn't care for the soundtrack with its western motifs.
That's too bad. I actually thought the music was really fitting and good. It reminded me of these old spaghetti westerns.

...1) The team of Picard, Beverly and Worf. Picard and Beverly seem a bit long in tooth to be mounting this kind of mission with only Worf to support them both. Yeah, I know Picard and Beverly had specialized training for this mission, but that seemed kinda feeble. I would've thought Data, Riker, or O'Brien or some combination of those 3 would've made sense as well. Hell, they should've had Picard lead a group of younger, gung-ho Starfleet marines in there ALONG with Beverly or Worf. This wasn't a dealbreaker or anything, but in an episode that had so much great writing, this left a tiny hole in the script.
...
Plus if they had taken O'Brien instead of Picard, it would have given him some advance training for his many torture episodes on DS9.
 
If you can't appreciate the Enterprise riding off into the sunset at the end (like you'd see in just about any Western worth watching) to Jay Chattaway's great mashup of Western leitmotifs and the usual TNG scoring we got every week, then I don't know what to tell you.

Wait a minute -- I do! Not every single episode has to be "Yesterday's Enterprise" or "The Inner Light." "A Fistful of Datas" is a romp and is absolutely one of the stronger Season 6 shows as well as one of the better holodeck shows of all the modern series.

The way you said that made me laugh. In a good ay as in it is rather witty.:techman:

However, don't say it's"stronger Season 6 shows" period. It is so in your opinion, and that is 100% okay. But an opinion doesn't make a fact. It's like saying "Blue is one of the better colours"
Same with "True Q" I found that episode abysmal and cheesy.
And why would Patrick Stewart directing it change my opinion of the episode?

What part of thw words "my take" did you not understand?

I'm not saying that there can't be lighthearted episodes, romps or such. However I do dislike holodeck episodes and I'm not a fan of Westerns, so I understand I wasn't their target audience for "Fistful of Datas", but that knowledge won't heighten my enjoyment of it. I tune in to watch a science fiction show, not a Western/Sherlock Homes/Film Noir/Victorian Novel pastiche (and I say that a someone who likes a good deal of 18th/19th century novels) or whatever else the holodeck throws at us.
If I want to see another genre I will watch a show of another genre.

Compare that to Data's Day, which was another lighthearted episode. It's one of my favorites, its charming and goofy, but it also stays within the genre and the setting of the show and doesn't substitute it wit a 1950s setting. Same with Hollow Pursuits, now that was a good holodeck episode, in my eyes, and also a very funny/lighthearted one.

And, to use your own point, this is all in your opinion. I don't dispute your right to have said opinion, I just disagree with it and have expained why. :)

GOOD! Now you know how I feel! Welcome to my world!

When I started this thread, I was hoping we could discuss some of the early S6 episodes.

You should try reading posts instead of BURNING them.

EnriqueH, drop the personal "advice" and stick to your subject.

That's fine, but you do realize that the "advice" you're referring to is a paraphrase from Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade in keeping with their theme? (My way of saying I'm not serious.)

Except your choice of quote doesn't apply. I've ably demonstrated that I've been discussing the merits of various season six episodes. I don't see how my disagreeing with you on a few of them constitutes me "burning" your posts, but whatever.

Back on topic:

I thought "Lessons" was a nice "office romance" for Picard, even though we all knew from the beginning they wouldn't be together for very long. It was a nice examination of the life Picard has to lead in order to be the effective leader and starship commander that he is -- he can't have the luxury of a romance with an officer under his command. Not because he isn't capable or because it's against the rules, but because he, as a man, simply didn't want to lose someone he loved because of his job. It's probably why it took him so long to acknowledge his love for Beverly. It's probably all rooted in his own feelings of guilt regarding Jack. Once again, he finds himself in a situation where he has to risk losing someone he loves - in this case, Nella Darren) and he finally makes the choice to not possibly place her in danger.

About the only real complaint I have about the story is that from a fundamental level, the writers set it up so that Nella would have transfer away by the end of the show, and it sucks for her as a character and as a woman to have to give up her job because Picard is the captain. Even a throwaway line would have sufficed, with Picard offering to resign or transer himself. It might have been hollow and empty, but Nella was a smart enough character too to know that she couldn't ask him to do that. As it is though, it's a lovely piece and I really like that they bond over music of all things.

As for "Chain of Command" -- the writers gave perfectly credible reasons for including Picard and Crusher. Too, it made all the more sense in Part II for Madred to mindfuck Picard by suggesting that he had Crusher to torture next. There's no way we as the audience would buy Picard offering himself to to stay for many of the other characters as believably as we would if he did so for Beverly.

Fun tidbit: Originally the part of the Ferengi they meet on their way to Celtris III was supposed to be Quark; it wasn't until the writers realized this episode would air before the premiere of DS9 that they realized that no one would know who Quark was! So, they changed it to whatever the hell the name was of that Ferengi.
 
...Fun tidbit: Originally the part of the Ferengi they meet on their way to Celtris III was supposed to be Quark; it wasn't until the writers realized this episode would air before the premiere of DS9 that they realized that no one would know who Quark was! So, they changed it to whatever the hell the name was of that Ferengi.

You mean it was Quark's ears that Beverly was supposed to fondle while whispering "Very grateful...";)


Mirror Kira tried that with Sisko and it didn't work.
 
I can't remember if Jellico ...
Maxwell is in prison for the rest of his natural life.

I don't know. Garak got a couple of months for trying to obliterate the world of the founders and the Defiant as a side effect.

I dunno either. I stated that too directly. I don't know what the difference might be between Maxwell (Leyton also, as a DS9 example) being a Starfleet officer that broke an oath and defied direct orders, and Garak, a civilian non-citizen when it comes to sentencing. We don't even see Maxwell receive a punishment for his actions on screen...my assumption is court martial and prison time, but that's just an assumption. Maybe he got off scot-free for all we know!

Or is Garak a Federation citizen? Ex-pat without citizenship? Star Trek equivalent of a green card or visa? I don't know, I can't think of a time this was ever addressed.
 
I can't remember if Jellico ...
Maxwell is in prison for the rest of his natural life.

I don't know. Garak got a couple of months for trying to obliterate the world of the founders and the Defiant as a side effect.

I dunno either. I stated that too directly. I don't know what the difference might be between Maxwell (Leyton also, as a DS9 example) being a Starfleet officer that broke an oath and defied direct orders, and Garak, a civilian non-citizen when it comes to sentencing. We don't even see Maxwell receive a punishment for his actions on screen...my assumption is court martial and prison time, but that's just an assumption. Maybe he got off scot-free for all we know!

Or is Garak a Federation citizen? Ex-pat without citizenship? Star Trek equivalent of a green card or visa? I don't know, I can't think of a time this was ever addressed.

You think that because of citizenship they'd go lighter on the sentencing? That'd be a departure from what is done nowadays to people that commit crimes in countries they are not the citizens of. Usually, they get the full extent of the law (if not more), plus deportation at the end of their prison time.
 
I really don't know, it seems Ro did several years for her crime of disobeying orders and was facing considerably longer, and if we know that Garak only did a couple months for a considerably morally greater crime, I assume there's some sort of reason behind it.
 
I really don't know, it seems Ro did several years for her crime of disobeying orders and was facing considerably longer, and if we know that Garak only did a couple months for a considerably morally greater crime, I assume there's some sort of reason behind it.
They've captured Ro? I assumed she was killed along with the rest of the maquis.
 
She was imprisoned in (memory alpha says) in the mid 2360's for her role in an away mission on Garon II on which she disobeyed direct orders resulting in the death of I think eight officers. She was busted out in 2368 by Admiral (uhhhh....) to help make contact with Maquis leaders as well as a nefarious secret mission when she first came aboard the Enterprise. Episode "Ensign Ro".
 
She was imprisoned in (memory alpha says) in the mid 2360's for her role in an away mission on Garon II on which she disobeyed direct orders resulting in the death of I think eight officers. She was busted out in 2368 by Admiral (uhhhh....) to help make contact with Maquis leaders as well as a nefarious secret mission when she first came aboard the Enterprise. Episode "Ensign Ro".

Almost.

Admiral Kennelly got Ro out of prison to help deal with Bajoran refugees who were causing problems with the local Cardassians in a ploy to set up the Bajorans for a fall. With Ro's help, the Enterprise crew was able to expose the plot and Kennelly. This all took place two years before the Maquis even existed.

There's no on screen reference to Ro Laren after "Preemptive Strike." More than likely this was the producers' way of keeping the door open in case Forbes ever expressed any interest in returning to the franchise.

In the DS9 novel relaunch series, if I recall correctly, she becomes the new chief of security on Deep Space Nine as recommended (but not to her knowledge) by Picard.
 
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She was imprisoned in (memory alpha says) in the mid 2360's for her role in an away mission on Garon II on which she disobeyed direct orders resulting in the death of I think eight officers. She was busted out in 2368 by Admiral (uhhhh....) to help make contact with Maquis leaders as well as a nefarious secret mission when she first came aboard the Enterprise. Episode "Ensign Ro".

Almost.

Admiral Kennelly got Ro out of prison to help deal with Bajoran refugees who were causing problems with the local Cardassians in a ploy to set up the Bajorans for a fall. With Ro's help, the Enterprise crew was able to expose the plot and Kennelly. This all took place two years before the Maquis even existed.

There's no on screen reference to Ro Laren after "Preemptive Strike." More than likely this was the producers' way of keeping the door open in case Forbes ever expressed any interest in returning to the franchise.

In the DS9 novel relaunch series, if I recall correctly, she becomes the new chief of security on Deep Space Nine, as recommended but not to her knowledge) of Picard.

Yeah, you two are right, it slipped my mind.
 
Fun tidbit: Originally the part of the Ferengi they meet on their way to Celtris III was supposed to be Quark; it wasn't until the writers realized this episode would air before the premiere of DS9 that they realized that no one would know who Quark was! So, they changed it to whatever the hell the name was of that Ferengi.

I remember reading this somewhere before, and being surprised -- mainly because I'd always assumed "Chain Of Command" was intended to be a lead-in to DS9's premiere (it actually fits that profile quite well, establishing the recent situation surrounding the Cardassian withdrawal from Bajor, etc).
 
Fun tidbit: Originally the part of the Ferengi they meet on their way to Celtris III was supposed to be Quark; it wasn't until the writers realized this episode would air before the premiere of DS9 that they realized that no one would know who Quark was! So, they changed it to whatever the hell the name was of that Ferengi.

I remember reading this somewhere before, and being surprised -- mainly because I'd always assumed "Chain Of Command" was intended to be a lead-in to DS9's premiere (it actually fits that profile quite well, establishing the recent situation surrounding the Cardassian withdrawal from Bajor, etc).

But Beverly stroking Quark's ears??? Imagine how awkward it would have been later for worf when he came back on DS9 and Quark would have greeted him with a wink and reminded him about this incident.
 
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