Season 6: Is it me?
- Thread starter EnriqueH
- Start date
Nah, I agree with you. Season 6 and 7 were a slow decline in quality, I think the episodic formula simply grew stale. It has not nearly as many good episodes, in my eyes, as did Seasons 4 and 5.
On the positive side you have "Tapestry", "Face of the Enemy" and "Lessons" to look forward to.
On the positive side you have "Tapestry", "Face of the Enemy" and "Lessons" to look forward to.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I would suggest watching through the entirety of the season before making any judgments. There are some really high quality, superb stories from that year and there are some clunkers. Just like in every other season. Watch the thing before you make up your mind to condemn it.*
005
*Also useful advice when considering movies.
005
*Also useful advice when considering movies.
You started a thread about S6 having only watched the first few episodes? Is this board your Facebook?
Well, it was designed to be an ONGOING thread as I watch the series again. (I'm doing a franchise run-through, which I've never done.)
I remember Chain of Command being EXCELLENT and I'm looking forward to seeing it a third time.
That's one thing about this board. I love it, but I feel like I can't say something without it being micro-analyzed or taken out of context.
It's like preparing for the courtroom! Say something casually, and people are ready to jump on you and rip you a new one!
5, I never meant for my comment to reflect the ENTIRE season, but that it feels like a drop off in quality THUS FAR.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
And that comment was not intended to be an attack. Your original post (which I was replying to) seemed to imply that you'd made up your mind about the quality of the season. Further, you were criticizing "Schisms" and "True Q" which while not the best are still two of the better episodes of the season (all things considered).
Besides. My comment was meant only as a suggestion; Having re-watched Season 6 recently, I know that despite some lesser episodes, there are also really great ones as you go through that might not be as apparent in the early part of the season. For every "Aquiel," you'll get a shiny gem like "A Fistful of Datas" or "Face of te Enemy."
Also: I would strongly suggest not re-watching "Aquiel." Ugh. Just... ugh. Talk about a clunker!
Besides. My comment was meant only as a suggestion; Having re-watched Season 6 recently, I know that despite some lesser episodes, there are also really great ones as you go through that might not be as apparent in the early part of the season. For every "Aquiel," you'll get a shiny gem like "A Fistful of Datas" or "Face of te Enemy."
Also: I would strongly suggest not re-watching "Aquiel." Ugh. Just... ugh. Talk about a clunker!
If this was intended to be an ongoing thread, you should have titled it "Season 6, so far, is it me?". Otherwise, it's not our fault that something simply titled "Season 6: Is it me?" is not meant to represent the entire season.
Anywho, Season 6 has a weak start for sure, I had the same thought revisiting it last year. However, it has a very strong second half and even in the first half, there are highlights, such as the aforementioned "Relics". "Man of the People" is fun simply to watch Marina Sirtis vamp it up on screen. "Schisms" is enjoyable due to its weird, off-setting tone and of course, Data's poetry. I think you'll find that the season finishes well and sometimes that's what matters most.
Anywho, Season 6 has a weak start for sure, I had the same thought revisiting it last year. However, it has a very strong second half and even in the first half, there are highlights, such as the aforementioned "Relics". "Man of the People" is fun simply to watch Marina Sirtis vamp it up on screen. "Schisms" is enjoyable due to its weird, off-setting tone and of course, Data's poetry. I think you'll find that the season finishes well and sometimes that's what matters most.
I actually like Schisms, Man. It's a stand out episode unlike much of their other stuff. They'd never done the alien abduction schtick. So it was a good effort, imo
Realm of Fear is rather stale. Man of The People is somewhat uninspired, & True Q is a bit dull, but none of them are altogether bad & of course Rascals & A Fistful of Datas are quite silly, but it's all in good fun.
However, if you exclude Aquiel, the next 10 or 12 episodes are really darn good & rather varied fare. So be prepared to have it turn around for you
Realm of Fear is rather stale. Man of The People is somewhat uninspired, & True Q is a bit dull, but none of them are altogether bad & of course Rascals & A Fistful of Datas are quite silly, but it's all in good fun.
However, if you exclude Aquiel, the next 10 or 12 episodes are really darn good & rather varied fare. So be prepared to have it turn around for you
That's subjective... If he doesn't like them he can criticize them all he wants.
I, personally , would not call "A Fistful of Datas" a "gem" it's a holodeck-centred episode (one of two this season) and to me they're always meh...
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I never said he couldn't. My only dispute with this thread was that, having only seen a handful of early episodes in the season, the language of EnriqueH's first post seemed to indicate he had already decided that Season 6 was going to be bad. I merely tried to point out that this was not the case.
Well, I guess there's no accounting for taste. My take: "A Fistful of Datas" is a delight. It's a solid outing for Patrick Stewart as a director, (I think, off the top of my head, this was his second turn at bat for that) chock full of great homages and references to some of the great American Westerns.
It is, as Michael Piller once said, "very old school Star Trek;" Most importantly it allowed both Troi and Data to break out of the usual confines of their characters in a new, creative way, lets Worf do something fun, and includes Alexander in the story in such a way that he isn't a nuisance. If you can't appreciate the Enterprise riding off into the sunset at the end (like you'd see in just about any Western worth watching) to Jay Chattaway's great mashup of Western leitmotifs and the usual TNG scoring we got every week, then I don't know what to tell you.
Wait a minute -- I do! Not every single episode has to be "Yesterday's Enterprise" or "The Inner Light." "A Fistful of Datas" is a romp and is absolutely one of the stronger Season 6 shows as well as one of the better holodeck shows of all the modern series.
The way you said that made me laugh. In a good ay as in it is rather witty.
However, don't say it's"stronger Season 6 shows" period. It is so in your opinion, and that is 100% okay. But an opinion doesn't make a fact. It's like saying "Blue is one of the better colours"
Same with "True Q" I found that episode abysmal and cheesy.
And why would Patrick Stewart directing it change my opinion of the episode?
I'm not saying that there can't be lighthearted episodes, romps or such. However I do dislike holodeck episodes and I'm not a fan of Westerns, so I understand I wasn't their target audience for "Fistful of Datas", but that knowledge won't heighten my enjoyment of it. I tune in to watch a science fiction show, not a Western/Sherlock Homes/Film Noir/Victorian Novel pastiche (and I say that a someone who likes a good deal of 18th/19th century novels) or whatever else the holodeck throws at us.
If I want to see another genre I will watch a show of another genre.
Compare that to Data's Day, which was another lighthearted episode. It's one of my favorites, its charming and goofy, but it also stays within the genre and the setting of the show and doesn't substitute it wit a 1950s setting. Same with Hollow Pursuits, now that was a good holodeck episode, in my eyes, and also a very funny/lighthearted one.
I agree with Orphalesion. Everything is subjective. One person saying "Schisms and True Q are two of the better episodes in the season all things considered", is another person saying "I just saw Schisms and True Q, Ooof!". Infinite Diversity, In Infinite Combinations. 
That said, personally I'm a fan of season six, and feel TNG's big drop-off was in season seven (or more specifically, I felt the end of season six, and the 'Descent' two-parter in particular, was where TNG ran out of gas). IMO, YMMV, LOL, (etc).
That said, personally I'm a fan of season six, and feel TNG's big drop-off was in season seven (or more specifically, I felt the end of season six, and the 'Descent' two-parter in particular, was where TNG ran out of gas). IMO, YMMV, LOL, (etc).
You really thought I was pigeonholing the ENTIRE season based on a few episodes?
Ok, maybe I should've spelled it out more by saying UP UNTIL NOW the season is off to a muddy start, but---right or wrong---I thought I conveyed that in the initial post.
I did start off the thread by saying "So far", which I thought would indicate the same idea, but anyway...
I just saw Rascals.
I liked the idea of returning to childhood and what physical appearances mean to us. Picard, Keiko, Ro, and Guinan were all the same, but they transformed physically. Intellectually, we understand that they are the same mentally, but their physical change caused almost everyone to treat them differently.
It's a theme worthy of Star Trek.
Now the execution?
Hot and cold, IMO. There's an EXCELLENT Star Trek story here, but I'm not convinced that this was the best that it could've been made.
The kid playing Picard was alternately ok and painful.
My wife hates Star Trek and I keep hoping she'll walk into the room one day, become intrigued and sit down and give it a chance. Well, tonight, she walked in right as "child Picard" threw his tantrum.
Needless to say, she didn't sit down tonight.
The girl that played Guinan did the best job IMO, though the Keiko and Ro children did well with the material. But Guinan was my favorite. She was totally Guinan and the writers did a great job with that role too.
Why didn't I like Picard? I can't quite put my finger on it, but maybe it was because the writers tried too hard to make him like Picard. When he walked into his ready room like nothing happened and ordered an "Earl Grey. Hot." My reaction was to think, "They're trying too hard." Not sure if that's fair or not, but it was my reaction nonetheless.
What did you guys think?
All in all, a decent episode, even a good one at times, and it could've easily been A LOT worse. Child Picard could've started screaming, "BONK! BONK!", right?
I thought Season 6 was excellent. In addition to the other episodes mentioned, there's "Birthright," "Second Chances," "The Chase," and Timescape."
--Sran
--Sran
I distinctly remember sitting down and watching "Rascals" with my uncle on first broadcast, and us both being pretty impressed with all four of the child actors. I think they all managed to capture the nuances of the adult versions of the characters very well. I think the Picard child convinced my uncle the most, he really did capture Stewart's performance quite well. I can remember my uncle commenting on it at the time.
One thing that does always surprise me about this one is how even this late in the show they were still doing episodes where 'renegade' Ferengi are shown to be hostile and capable of something like this. It tends to fly in the face of the usual fan opinion that the Ferengi were 'dropped' as an enemy early on. Sure, it's stupid the way they manage to take over the Enterprise, but on the other hand it's clear that they're still being shown by the writers to be a credible threat (albeit a comical one).
When I was watching the blu rays, I realized I liked Season 6 more than Season 5.
Rascals...
I agree the girl playing Young!Guinan was excellent (did she appear in much else?) and Guinan's character was written very well in the Episode and her interaction with Ro was very interesting and entertaining. Why, oh why couldn't they have made Ro a main player during seasons 5,6 and 7? Or introduce a replacement for Tasha much sooner... Or you know, give Tasha storylines like that, so that Crosby wouldn't have left! The storyline of the war child being returned to her childhood only to get to experience it now in a safer, more joyous environment is VERY intriguing.
However the whole "children saving the Enterprise" at the end....slightly meh...
I think I would have liked to see more of the main characters being turned to children.
An okay episode overall in my eyes with some very good moments.
I agree the girl playing Young!Guinan was excellent (did she appear in much else?) and Guinan's character was written very well in the Episode and her interaction with Ro was very interesting and entertaining. Why, oh why couldn't they have made Ro a main player during seasons 5,6 and 7? Or introduce a replacement for Tasha much sooner... Or you know, give Tasha storylines like that, so that Crosby wouldn't have left! The storyline of the war child being returned to her childhood only to get to experience it now in a safer, more joyous environment is VERY intriguing.
However the whole "children saving the Enterprise" at the end....slightly meh...
I think I would have liked to see more of the main characters being turned to children.
An okay episode overall in my eyes with some very good moments.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said, yes.
Disagree. David Tristin Birkin gave, I thought, a credible portrayal of Picard at twelve. Even better that it's the same child actor who played Picard's nephew in "Family!"
I do think Isis J. Jones gave a great performance as Guinan, age twelve. I really liked how she and Megan Parlen were able to translate the Guinan-Ro friendship so believably, too.
Disagree. Where you see the writers "trying too hard," I see the characterization of Picard, aged fifty, as stuck in the body of a twelve year-old. Of course it would be weird. The whole point of the performance is that Picard (the character) acts as if nothing has happened because he desperately wants to believe he can still function as a starship captain despite this recent calamity.
I thought "Rascals" was a solid effort overall. I think it does have a few points that don't hold up under scrutiny --- Odo is entirely correct later on DS9 when he points out what a shitty, shitty security officer Worf tended to be on the Enterprise and citing this incident there is totally fair game. That being said, I agree with the poster above who also pointed out that at least we're seeing the Ferengi being portrayed as still somewhat ruthless and conniving.
I also thought the story was yet another clever, organic way to include Alexander in the story without shoehorning him onto the audience or making us sit through more insufferable stories about how he and Worf struggle to get along. Of all the performances, I thought Caroline Junko King was the least memorable but I did appreciate that the story took pains to show how such a scenario would have affected the O'Brien family.
There's some great comedy in the episode that works really well -- Riker explaining the computer systems to Morta, the moron:
RIKER: You do know what a firumantle drive is?
MORTA: I am not stupid, hew-mon!
RIKER (deadpan): No. Of course not.
There's also the scene with Riker and Young Picard pretending to be father and son, which is just hilarious when you see the dopey, pasted-on grin on Riker's face when they hug for the benefit of the Ferengi guarding them. Adam Nimoy (on his first directing job) did a splendid job here (no small feat, given how many kids he had to deal with) and it shows -- and it paid off for him too, as the strength of this episode ultimately got him another invite to direct again at the end of the season.
It's definitely one of Star Trek's frothier, sillier episodes (akin to DS9's "One Little Ship") but also one of the better episodes of season six.
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