Scientific weirdness in Star Trek

[Pauln6]

So why bring it up? It don't mean a thing if it ain't on the screen.

Because I'm not completely sure. There are many others with better memories than me. The line might be in one of the versions.

missing the point. Make the women Security officers and engineers. Write that, not Yeoman Mary Sue to the rescue. There's no sexism in giving women those roles and showing they are trained in them. Yeomen have a specific job and training, they're not jacks of all trades. Frankly I rolled my eyes at Chekov being the CE, because it's the same stupid problem. I hate it when specialists are sidelined so another character can play hero.

well, Rand IS an engineer. All the characters have multiple disciplines. Sulu is a physicist and a botanist for example. Their current position does not always dictate their full skill set. I agree that I don't like it when someone is chosen over another character who is clearly better qualified ##cough## Spock ##Cough## which happened a lot in Voyager, but that's more appropriate to scientific disciplines. In CotEoF, Rand was written with engineering skills and security training. All the crew have those. She didn't go to yeoman school to learn how to use a space typewriter; she had Starfleet training and learned how to be an astronaut.

joke.

Too soon.

 

[T'Bonz]

Some of the portrayals in J.J. Trek made me grind my teeth. A punk Kirk. A high-school teenager-like Uhura fussing with Spock about their romance. An edgy Spock. The only character that was spot on was McCoy.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Seemingly magical tech is one thing. Being able to see Vulcan from your house is something that any grade schooler should know better than.

 

[Pauln6]

Some of the portrayals in J.J. Trek made me grind my teeth. A punk Kirk. A high-school teenager-like Uhura fussing with Spock about their romance. An edgy Spock. The only character that was spot on was McCoy.

The stuff in the turbolift I could forgive but not delaying a mission to save Earth while on duty during a red alert for a goodbye kiss. TOS Kirk gave Chekov and Landon a dressing down for canoodling while on landing party duty.

One of the scientific oddities of Trek that I have started to ponder following the pandemic is the threat of biological agents. Presumably, one of the reasons for bio-filters is to remove a host biome to prevent contaminating other worlds but once on those worlds, every breath that the visitor takes puts unfamiliar micro-organisms inside that person's lungs and bloodstream. Their immune response to many unfamiliar invaders could be spectacular.

While Field Effect suits from TAS are considered a bit cheesy, would not something like that not be needed for planetary exploration?

 

[Nerys Myk]

In CotEoF, Rand was written with engineering skills and security training.

And were did that go when CotEoE was filmed? In the dustbin along with the Rand character. It's pretty clear that GR and whoever else took a swing at that script had no interest in Rand being anything more that a Space Waitress and then no interest in the character at all. Sadly, all this stuff from previous versions of the script don't really count.

Sulu is a physicist and a botanist for example.

He was a physicist in the pilot and then never again. He's almost a different character. The science stuff became Spock's balliwick when the show was picked up. The botany thing seems to be a hobby and not a career. Sulu seems to collect and discard hobbies rather quickly, at least according Riley.

Frankly, this version of Sulu might have been better that what we got

Physicist Sulu is the trim, soft-spoken chief of the Enterprise's Astro Science Department. Frequently it is his assessment of the conditions on unexplored planets that finally determines when and how they will be approached, or if they can be explored at all."

But as I said, that was given to Spock.

 

[Pauln6]

And were did that go when CotEoE was filmed? In the dustbin along with the Rand character. It's pretty clear that GR and whoever else took a swing at that script had no interest in Rand being anything more that a Space Waitress and then no interest in the character at all. Sadly, all this stuff from previous versions of the script don't really count.

He was a physicist in the pilot and then never again. He's almost a different character. The science stuff became Spock's balliwick when the show was picked up. The botany thing seems to be a hobby and not a career. Sulu seems to collect and discard hobbies rather quickly, at least according Riley.

Frankly, this version of Sulu might have been better that what we got
But as I said, that was given to Spock.

Sure but all you are doing is pointing out the status quo. All I'm saying is that failing to modernise that status quo was a failing IMO and there were ways they could have done that without smashing up the existing formula.

Seemingly magical tech is one thing. Being able to see Vulcan from your house is something that any grade schooler should know better than.

It's the inconsistency rankles Scotty thought Kirk was from a supply ship so he:
- Failed to notice Nero beaming Spock to the planet
- Failed to notice Vulcan's distress signal
- Failed to notice the distress signal from the lifepod which had been on the planet for a day (plenty of time for an evacuee to die from injuries).
- Failed to notice any gravitational anomaly in the same or nearby star system
- Failed to notice a Federation ship (with a transponder) in orbit

We know he has long range sensors or he would be unable to transport over light years in the following scene. It makes no sense that Scotty is so incompetent.

It would have made far more sense for Spock to have beamed Kirk to the brig with an escort (Yeoman Rand step up please!) with the intention of using the base's communications array to get warnings out (the Enterprise's communications being damaged). Kirk meets Spock Prime on the base, learns about Nero and then Kirk has to use his command skills to persuade, through inspiration rather than insubordination, that he should be released so that this crucial info that the Enterprise needs badly reaches the ship. Since the ship's communications are down the only way is to transport.

When Nero deposited Spock, he damaged the base's communications but Scotty and Keenser have been working with Spock to fix. Cue a trip in the snow and an encounter with a snow beast while trying to finalise repairs. Final conversion on the shuttle, then Rand and Keenser work the modified transporter to transport Kirk and Scotty to the Enterprise, which is not dozens of light years away, because we removed the silliness of leaving the lifepod in the snow and overnight camping.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It's the inconsistency rankles Scotty thought Kirk was from a supply ship so he:
- Failed to notice Nero beaming Spock to the planet
- Failed to notice Vulcan's distress signal
- Failed to notice the distress signal from the lifepod which had been on the planet for a day (plenty of time for an evacuee to die from injuries).
- Failed to notice any gravitational anomaly in the same or nearby star system
- Failed to notice a Federation ship (with a transponder) in orbit

We know he has long range sensors or he would be unable to transport over light years in the following scene. It makes no sense that Scotty is so incompetent.

It would have made far more sense for Spock to have beamed Kirk to the brig with an escort (Yeoman Rand step up please!) with the intention of using the base's communications array to get warnings out (the Enterprise's communications being damaged). Kirk meets Spock Prime on the base, learns about Nero and then Kirk has to use his command skills to persuade, through inspiration rather than insubordination, that he should be released so that this crucial info that the Enterprise needs badly reaches the ship. Since the ship's communications are down the only way is to transport.

When Nero deposited Spock, he damaged the base's communications but Scotty and Keenser have been working with Spock to fix. Cue a trip in the snow and an encounter with a snow beast while trying to finalise repairs. Final conversion on the shuttle, then Rand and Keenser work the modified transporter to transport Kirk and Scotty to the Enterprise, which is not dozens of light years away, because we removed the silliness of leaving the lifepod in the snow and overnight camping.

Who says ANY of that was in Scotty's job description? The movie sure doesn't. He was on punishment duty. He's not going to be monitoring planetary comings and goings when Vulcan is right there managing things in the next orbit.

The guy was tinkering with a broken down shuttle and having a nap, he didn't care what was going on elsewhere in the system.

 

[Henoch]

When Nero deposited Spock, he damaged the base's communications but Scotty and Keenser have been working with Spock to fix. Cue a trip in the snow and an encounter with a snow beast while trying to finalise repairs. Final conversion on the shuttle, then Rand and Keenser work the modified transporter to transport Kirk and Scotty to the Enterprise, which is not dozens of light years away, because we removed the silliness of leaving the lifepod in the snow and overnight camping.

Agreed that the script could have been better. I fancy that instead of the super duper transporter, the Enterprise was "slowed" due to its battle damage, and that Scotty had a souped up shuttle that could over take the limping Enterprise. Land in shuttlebay and get taken into custody, which avoids the comedic water tube ride and brewery tour high jinks. (Characters should be serious to reflect the danger and threats.) Scotty then helps fix the warp drive off screen then off they go at super warp speed. Same end result with same screen time.

I wonder why didn't Vulcan terraform (vulcanform?) its near by planet neighbor? Maybe they did and that's as good as it got; too cold for Vulcans, but what about indoor living? Must be a political issue on Vulcan to preserve the natural environment of other worlds.

 

[Pauln6]

Who says ANY of that was in Scotty's job description? The movie sure doesn't. He was on punishment duty. He's not going to be monitoring planetary comings and goings when Vulcan is right there managing things in the next orbit.

The guy was tinkering with a broken down shuttle and having a nap, he didn't care what was going on elsewhere in the system.

Responding to distress calls would be in EVERY Starfleet officer's job description. The only way his communications array would not automatically pick up a nearby distress call would be if it had been damaged (by Nero) or if he had switched it off. I can believe that Scotty would be balls deep in his research but I can't believe that he would switch off automatic monitoring. If he did, then yeah, he was incompetent.

I would stress at this point that Scotty Prime was a damn fine command officer as well as a great engineer. NuScotty is not portrayed as a good officer at all - someone good for a research post but not someone to put in charge of a Starship.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sure but all you are doing is pointing out the status quo. All I'm saying is that failing to modernise that status quo was a failing IMO and there were ways they could have done that without smashing up the existing formula.

No I'm pointing out that Rand/Yeoman of the week was an ill conceived character that they (TOS) had no idea what to do with. I'm also pointing out that things in early drafts that were never used don't count because they never made it to the screen. I'm also the one saying they should have made female characters engineers., scientists and security much more than they did in place of the Yeoman character.

Now, could the team behind '09 have created a new female character to address the gender "imbalance" inherited from TOS? Sure. Could they have called that character "Rand" and made her security or an engineer? Sure. But they seemed to have wanted to focus on the classic seven. And even some of those characters got shorted.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Responding to distress calls would be in EVERY Starfleet officer's job description

How? He was one of two people on an ice station with a shuttle that doesn't fly.

 

[MAGolding]

...Kirk did bend or break the rules sometimes but usually when in command, based on his past experience. If he'd behaved that way before he had experience, I don't imagine he would have been promoted in TOS as quickly, or at all. Remember how his mistake as an ensign still haunted him years later? NuKirk didn't seem to be that self-aware. His rapid promotion rankled because of that...

What mistake did prime Kirk make as an ensign? I don't remember any, nor much else about Ensign Kirk.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What mistake did prime Kirk make as an ensign? I don't remember any, nor much else about Ensign Kirk.

"Obsession"

 

[fireproof78]

How? He was one of two people on an ice station with a shuttle that doesn't fly.

Exactly. He was limited and could, at best, relay information to Command. Which was already disrupted by Nero and his actions.

 

[Pauln6]

How? He was one of two people on an ice station with a shuttle that doesn't fly.

Calling in assistance from other ships in the area. Transporting survivors. Rescuing evacuees left alone in the snow.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Calling in assistance from other ships in the area.

Every other ship in the area was smashed by Nero.

Transporting survivors.

From where?

Rescuing evacuees left alone in the snow.

Who was left in the snow?

You're nitpicking from your own suppositions, not what's shown in the movie.

 

[fireproof78]

You're nitpicking from your own suppositions, not what's shown in the movie.

More of what would have been preferred over what was done. Which is pretty much how the film is judged.

 

[Pauln6]

Every other ship in the area was smashed by Nero.

Actually, no. There were other survivors. But the thing about ships in distress is that their predicament would be unexpected, so everyone should be prepared. The fact that Kirk had to walk to a station that was a handful of KM away clearly indicates that Scotty was not ready or paying attention. When Kirk arrives, he isn't even aware that there has been a distress call.

From where?

From within transporter range, which apparently was a REALLY long way.

Who was left in the snow?

Kirk was out in the snow for maybe 12 hours. despite the distress call. Spock Prime had been there even longer, albeit that was his choice (for some unknown reason he decided to live in a cave for a couple of days). The lifepod even tells Kirk to wait for help. How long would it have taken Scotty to notice?

You're nitpicking from your own suppositions, not what's shown in the movie.

I am nitpicking admittedly. Actually, I don't subscribe to the notion that Delta Vega was in the Vulcan system because that would be require Scotty to be completely oblivious to Vulcan-shattering events happening right on his doorstep. I'm more in the camp that Nero picked a place that was close enough for Spock to feel the deaths. Spock was providing a mind's eye view of his psychic trauma when so many Vulcans died. That is also my own supposition but if you go with what you see on screen then yeah, Scotty was incompetent just for being so oblivious.

I really enjoyed the NuTrek movies but just became increasingly frustrated by how sloppy the science was, how sloppy the application of the fictional science was, how sloppy Starfleet was. and how sexist the first two movies were. Apart from the impossibility of naturally conceiving and carrying a child with a different species with wholly incompatible blood, I can only think of the Enterprise Incident being as sloppy.

 

[fireproof78]

From within transporter range, which apparently was a REALLY long way.

That was only Scotty's as yet unproven theory.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

planet's mass

I thought maybe they meant weight or volume and used the wrong word.

Possibly the planet PSI 2000 captured a mini black whole which has been eating up the interior of the planet every since.

Interestingly, the early levels of Super Mario Galaxy depict what you describe, and at various amounts. Since the later levels can follow off of what was established and imply that there can be strong gravity with a very small cosmic body, some interesting gameplay ensues.