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Scientific weirdness in Star Trek

[QUOTE="Commishsleer, post: 14016887, member: 52849"

...But I'm thinking there has to be an economic or physical reason Transwarp beaming can't be used everday like you have to be a superman like Kahn to survive it or it uses up a whole heap of energy to do it or it only works 9/10.[/QUOTE]

If you keep spelling Khan "Kahn" you might get complaints from people named Khan or Kahn.
 
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I often praise TOS for being the one iteration of Star Trek that is actually science fiction, the rest being sf-ish, but not really sf. This is, in part, because in the 60s, Trek was the pinnacle of a literary sf tradition, with many of its authors submitting scripts to Trek.

(interestingly, as of December '66, sf authors were being told "no thanks" and Trek was instead turning to Hollywood writers. Why? SF authors wanted too much money!)

Despite the sfnality of Trek, there are a lot of head scratchers. The latest one came up on Galileo Seven, in which the Enterprise investigates a "quasar or quasar-like phenomenon."

This is what I'm writing in my latest review. This is written from the perspective of someone living in January '67:


For those who don't know what a quasar is, they really are quite interesting, and probably nothing like the phenomenon depicted in the show (which is more like some kind of nebula). Quasars are actually cutting-edge astronomical science. When humanity first started turning their radio telescopes to the stars, they discovered sources of radiation that had hitherto been invisible. But they blazed like beacons in low frequency radio waves.

They seemed no bigger than stars, but they clearly were not stars. So they were called "quasi-stellar radio sources" – quasars for short. No one knew if they were extremely small, close-by entities, or extremely powerful far away ones. A few years back, it was noted that every quasar had an immensely red-shifted spectrum. That is to say that all of the light coming from any quasar, every single wavelength of color, was stretched, as if the body were receding from us at great speed. You've probably heard of this phenomenon before: the Doppler effect you hear when a train whistle is heading away from you.

This red-shift indicated that the quasars were actually very far away, billions of light years. They also offered proof that the early universe (since if the quasars are far away, they must be quite old – the light took billions of years to reach our eyes, after all) was different from the current universe since there are no nearby quasars. Thus, final conclusive proof that the universe arose from some kind of Big Bang, as opposed to always existing, as Fred Hoyle and many other prominent cosmologists suggested.

What this all means is that Kirk and co. could not have investigated a quasar, for there are none close enough to Earth for his starship to reach! He did cover up with the possibility of it being a "quasar-like" object, whatever that means (a quasi-quasi-stellar source?!)

I can usually squint my ears and forgive this scientificish wishiwash, but it drives the Young Traveler crazy.

Today it is known that quasars are the nuclei of galaxies containing particularly active super-massive black holes (maybe millions of solar masses or more) at their centre. By "active" I mean their black holes are currently ingesting significant amounts of matter and thus have substantial accretion disks. Matter falling into the black hole emits copious amounts of electromagnetic radiation and strong magnetic fields in the rotating disk can produce enormous bi-polar jets of matter that emit strongly at radio wavelengths and can extend far into inter-galactic space well beyond the host galaxy. On a much smaller scale, galaxies contain black holes of much lower mass (say, 10s of solar masses). These black holes are one of the possible end-points of massive star evolution (the precise origin of super-massive black holes is still a topic of active research). If a "stellar-mass" black hole was accreting mass from some source (such as a companion star), it could have an accretion disk and the accompanying phenomena of super-massive black holes, just on a much smaller scale. You would have a sort of "micro-quasar". There are possible examples of these in our own Galaxy, but they are rare. Murasaki 312 is undoubtedly one of these active micro-quasars. By the way, our Galaxy has a super-massive black hole in its centre but it is not very active.
 
I think it's the latter when dealing with the made up tech of the show like transporters and warp drive, but the former when dealing with actual science like black holes and known physics. It can go from the latter to the former, however, when it's internally inconsistent.



As influential as she was, I never got the impression that T'pau was the leader (president? prime minister? chancellor?) of Vulcan. She seemed more like a high priestess.



That's a mind boggling amount of empty space. I see no reason to believe Earth is so unique.

Considering that atoms contain a mind boggling amount of empty space, so do we (plus just about everything else, but not neutron stars)! :)
 
Today it is known
No, that is not known. It is surprising how often "popular theory" is passed off as, or mistaken for established fact by the general public. Einsteinian Relativity has been contentious from day one, and there are many professional physicists who disagree with various aspects of it now. For example, the late Edward Dowdye's work shows that the bending of starlight near the Sun is a refraction effect, not "warping" of "space-time" geometry.

Einstein himself knew there were problems with Maxwell's dynamics, and knew that such would affect Relativity. There are abundant articles addressing the internal inconsistencies of "black hole" math. And A-bombs are also among the popular misconceptions about Einstein's work:

Somehow the popular notion took hold long ago that Einstein's theory of relativity, in particular his famous equation E = mc^2, plays some essential role in the theory of fission. Albert Einstein had a part in alerting the United States government to the possibility of building an atomic bomb, but his theory of relativity is not required in discussing fission. The theory of fission is what physicists call a non-relativistic theory, meaning that relativistic effects are too small to affect the dynamics of the fission process significantly.
The Los Alamos Primer by Robert Serber

Newer observations are showing black holes to be less likely all the time.

However, if you were writing in terms of a 1967 audience, as the OP, then you can ignore the above.
 
No, that is not known. It is surprising how often "popular theory" is passed off as, or mistaken for established fact by the general public. Einsteinian Relativity has been contentious from day one, and there are many professional physicists who disagree with various aspects of it now. For example, the late Edward Dowdye's work shows that the bending of starlight near the Sun is a refraction effect, not "warping" of "space-time" geometry.

Dowdye appears to be a crank guided more by religious devotion than science. Or appeared, anyway. He's dead now.

Einstein himself knew there were problems with Maxwell's dynamics, and knew that such would affect Relativity. There are abundant articles addressing the internal inconsistencies of "black hole" math. And A-bombs are also among the popular misconceptions about Einstein's work:

You can't model an atom without relativity. Electronics zoom around the nucleus at relativistic speeds. A lot of folks failed the first semester Quantum Physics test when they didn't use the harder formulae.

Newer observations are showing black holes to be less likely all the time

I hate to be a jerk, but bad science is wrong and dangerous. Velikovskian bullshit should remain dead.

However, if you were writing in terms of a 1967 audience, as the OP, then you can ignore the above.

Thank you for that. :)
 
Velikovski at least got impacts right. Channeled Scablands was an example of how mainstream scientists got it wrong…understandably….what with the idea of a near biblical flood raising the hackles of gradualist/uniformitarianists. They got most everything right though—except for low-balling Grand Canyon—which was even older than they thought it was.
 
[QUOTE="Commishsleer, post: 14016887, member: 52849"

...But I'm thinking there has to be an economic or physical reason Transwarp beaming can't be used everday like you have to be a superman like Kahn to survive it or it uses up a whole heap of energy to do it or it only works 9/10.

If you keep spelling Khan "Kahn" you might get complaints from people named Khan or Kahn.[/QUOTE]


I always had trouble remembering the correct spelling so I came up with a memory trick of theorizing that Khan's real name is Khan Solo.

Robert
 
If you keep spelling Khan "Kahn" you might get complaints from people named Khan or Kahn.


I always had trouble remembering the correct spelling so I came up with a memory trick of theorizing that Khan's real name is Khan Solo.

Robert

Did he get that name from a guy manning the terminal when he got on the Botany Bay?
 
Even in a modern context, serious adult sci-fi is still a hard sell. The Expanse and Stargate Universe were solid sci fi but had to fight premature cancellation. Many other hard sci-fi shows did not make it beyond a single season but I suppose the same is true of many other genres too. Firefly was popular but not popular enough in relation to its cost. Earth: Final Conflict started out as much harder sci fi than where it ended up, which was schlocky sci fi and it was never really able to find the right balance. Space 1999 suffered a similar fate, although that was made for a UK audience.

I think you're right that it was the way the cast sold TOS that gave it enough spice to keep it popular, including the much overlooked supporting cast and guest cast. Did the other popular shows have a wider cast, more than a couple of lead characters, ongoing story elements etc. I watched Blakes 7 as a child and I was pretty oblivious to the ongoing story elements. I think another key is to balance the needs of avid viewers and casual viewers, which is not so much of a problem in the era of binge-watching but would have been a consideration in the sixties.

I think "Stargate Universe" suffered from being marketed as a "Stargate" show when it's totally different in tone.

My favorite bit of “scientific weirdness” in Trek is when Voyager gets trapped inside a black hole, and escapes by blasting a hole in the event horizon.

Anybody else have a favorite bit of “scientific weirdness”?

My favourite is actually the quasar from Galileo Seven. I think the first 2 seasons of TNG and the first season of Voyager do have some sci-fi episodes in the definition of the OP.

"Devil in the Dark" was cool, although my understanding (and that of scientists at the time the show was written) is that you can't actually have silicon-based life, even at the higher temperatures required to make it act similarly to carbon.

Trek gave up on astrobiology quite early. You see a bit of it with Sulu ("Man Trap" and "Shore Leave" -- in the latter, McCoy seems surprised that Sulu would want to go to all that trouble to collect samples; so much for him being "Head of Life Sciences"!), and Spock grinning as he fondled the chime plants in "The Cage", but otherwise, it's absent or, at best, an afterthought.

There wasn't much interest in making Trek a Wild Kingdom in Space, and even had they wanted to make it such, they had literally nothing to go on but imagination. In the 60s, we were beaming messages to nearby stars and renting time on radio dishes in the predecessor to Project SETI (which has turned up nothing, the most probable result). Mariners 2 and 4 had dispelled any notion that there might be life in the solar system.

So Trek was ultimately a show about people interacting with people (even if the people were sometimes aliens). Trek subscribed to the idea that there would be tons of aliens, many of them at similar levels to humans. This is a direct offshoot of contemporary literary science fiction, which ran the bell curve from no aliens to lots. But as far as astronomers knew, we were all alone in the universe.

Why can't you have silicon-based life? I've never heard that before.

Yes, Trek is ultimately a show about people interacting with people. The wonderful thing about sci-fi is you can explore ideas without the reader/audience immediately picking a side as happens with a lot of stories about real life.
 
Why can't you have silicon-based life? I've never heard that before..

It's been a while, and I'm not a biologist (though I suppose I will need to bone up again since I'm giving a presentation next month) but it's because the temperatures silicon requires to have the same activity as carbon are too high for other conditions necessary for life, silicon or otherwise.
 
It's been a while, and I'm not a biologist (though I suppose I will need to bone up again since I'm giving a presentation next month) but it's because the temperatures silicon requires to have the same activity as carbon are too high for other conditions necessary for life, silicon or otherwise.

That's fascinating, thank you. Good luck with your presentation.
 
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