Scientific weirdness in Star Trek
- Thread starter Neopeius
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The brewery was stupid, it was one level above showing an engineering deck full of guys shoveling coal into boilers.
It would have been more plausible AFTER Scotty had taken over as chielf engineer.
This is what I like so much about TMP. The Enterprise felt like a classy submarine in space. It felt functional and realistic. I realise that I might be showing my age by being hypnotised by switches and flashing lights which potentially might look better as touchscreen tech but I just don't get that impression in NuTrek or Discovery. Those ships were made to look cool but don't feel all that functional.
When TNG came out, we mocked the touch screen keyboard. There's no feedback -- too easy to hit the wrong thing. There was a reason the Atari 800's keyboard was so much more of a success than the Atari 400's...
They both feel about equally functional to me. More so than most fictional ships.
The interesting thing to observe here is that this episode takes seomting that science at that time would suggest was impossible (silicon-based biology) and, in a dramatic way, made it look possible. I don't see why sci-fi should have to be limited to only the things current theories suggest are possible, as long as there is some other theory that can suggest it is possible. That is why I think that warp drive and transporters don't make TOS inconsistent with science. They say that it is impossible now, but it might be possible one day.
This is where I get to say again that I think that on a self-contained ship on a long mission, the feedback of physical buttons, and the consistency of dedicated readouts that show only one function instead touch-scnreens saves computer resources and makes more sense
But a lot of the factors life had going for it on Earth are certainly rare in the wider cosmos, because they depended on remarkable coincidences which all went just right:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_Earth_hypothesis
So even a microbes-and-fungi planet is likely to be a precious gem in the galaxy. Add in the need for an alien civilization to coincide with the time frame of our existence, and for them to not be too far away from us, and we can say with a high degree of confidence that we won't ever be hearing from aliens. And I can see you agree with that last conclusion.
I think it's one thing to assume a handwave (faster than light ships, for instance) and another to use a scientific concept that is outdated (though I don't know how commonly silicon as a life basis had been discarded at the time). Like, I wouldn't write a Barsoomian Mars story and call it SF.
On the other hand, while silicon as a carbon substitute (and at terrestrial temperatures) may not be possible, I very much appreciate the Horta as a truly alien being. As with the "quasar-like" object, one can squint one's eyes to make it work.
Yes, but science fiction shouldn't be bound by what makes sense to us.This is where I get to say again that I think that on a self-contained ship on a long mission, the feedback of physical buttons, and the consistency of dedicated readouts that show only one function instead touch-scnreens saves computer resources and makes more sense
There's an estimated 10²² (or more) stars in the observable universe. Being the only star with sentient life means that 99.999999999999999999% of stars don't and only 0.0000000000000000001% of stars do.
Seems statistically low to me. YMMV.
At this point, we still have no compelling theory as to how abiogenesis happened in the first place, so there’s no way to estimate even an order of magnitude as to how unlikely it is.
There's an estimated 10²² (or more) stars in the observable universe. Being the only star with sentient life means that 99.999999999999999999% of stars don't and only 0.0000000000000000001% of stars do.
Seems statistically low to me. YMMV.
Agreed. But the mystery of abiogenesis should be susceptible to scientific research, you'd think, so eventually we'll have something to hang our hats on, something to base estimates on.
And I would put any money on life in the Milky Way being immensely rare as a percentage of stars, but not entirely unique to Earth.
Scotty: How about Starfleet confiscating my transwarp equation?
As Trek09 showcased, this '100+ years into the future equation' is so versatile that Prime Spock was able to input it into a broken down shuttlecraft's computer which enabled its transporters to send Kirk and Scotty to the Enterprise lightyears away while it was still at warp. It was also used on the Enterprise's transporters to beam Kirk and Spock onto the Narada all the way from Titan.
So, how do you confiscate an equation? Scotty came to the realization of why the equation wasn't working for him earlier, so what is preventing him from simply replicating it from memory? The NuTrek universe never established memory wiping and even if that was the case, why would they leave Scotty with the knowledge of the transwarp equation even existing let alone remembering the act of removing it from his memory? Did Starfleet re-design and re-format EVERY Traporter used in the universe solely for the purpose of being incompatible with the equation? Why? Because it was dangerous? That's a stretch considering the equation didn't kill anyone who used it and was also instrumental in saving the Federation. Even if THAT was the case, what exactly is stopping Scotty from doing what Section 31 did by simply making a gadget that can use the equation safely and effectively while being able to fit inside a duffle bag?
As Trek09 showcased, this '100+ years into the future equation' is so versatile that Prime Spock was able to input it into a broken down shuttlecraft's computer which enabled its transporters to send Kirk and Scotty to the Enterprise lightyears away while it was still at warp. It was also used on the Enterprise's transporters to beam Kirk and Spock onto the Narada all the way from Titan.
So, how do you confiscate an equation? Scotty came to the realization of why the equation wasn't working for him earlier, so what is preventing him from simply replicating it from memory? The NuTrek universe never established memory wiping and even if that was the case, why would they leave Scotty with the knowledge of the transwarp equation even existing let alone remembering the act of removing it from his memory? Did Starfleet re-design and re-format EVERY Traporter used in the universe solely for the purpose of being incompatible with the equation? Why? Because it was dangerous? That's a stretch considering the equation didn't kill anyone who used it and was also instrumental in saving the Federation. Even if THAT was the case, what exactly is stopping Scotty from doing what Section 31 did by simply making a gadget that can use the equation safely and effectively while being able to fit inside a duffle bag?
Maybe Scotty can't replicate it from memory, only Spock can. And so since Starfleet confiscated all his research and materials...
JJ-Trek's trans-warp beaming and Khan-beaming is just a matter of ST writers wanting to set stories in the pre-STTMP era, but not wanting to obey the continuity constraints that would come with it. If it were physically possible to beam so far and so fast in JJ-Trek, then why has nobody else figured it out by the time of ST-TNG? The Kelvin timeline is no excuse to change the (fictional) laws of physics.
It's just recent writers playing fast and loose with a franchise they don't deserve.
It's just recent writers playing fast and loose with a franchise they don't deserve.
Oh, I know I was being simplistic (and a bit snarky.) Was really just going for the visual of all those zeroes.
I do remain optimistic though.
I never understood this idea. Who "deserves" a fictional franchise?
I don't think nobody has figured it out in TNG-I think there are potential long term side effects that would limit its use, similar to the folding transporter in TNG. Scotty had only tested it once, and the subject had never reappeared. Even with Spock's knowledge, it still came as a surprise to Scotty, meaning he had not fully fleshed it out.
And made Scotty sign confidentiality agreements, cease and desist from any attempts to duplicate the research again, etc. etc. Stuff like this does happen in real life.
Kor
I think for me it is the dual issue of opening a Pandora's box and the stupidity of suggesting that if this technology were possible with no infrastructure and minimal power consumption, other species would already be doing it. It's just a mathematical formula. Are we kidding ourselves that humans are the best mathematicians in the Galaxy now? It's just childish Sci fi.
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