Root of all the ENT bashing/hating?

[CaptJimboJones]

As an aside, I was always endlessly amused by the fact that some of the most vocal, bitter, hateful, vociferous Enterprise bashers always watched the show, religiously, week after week. Sometimes they mentioned during their bash-filled rants that they had taped it and watched it several times. You'd see posts like "It was on my third viewing that I realized how absolutely badly the writers screwed up Archer's actions in this scene," or they'd brag about how they went through certain scenes frame-by-frame in order to unearth some "canon violation" so they could shriek about it.

Truly hilarious stuff.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Anna Yolei said:

And even aside from that--a few good episodes out of 26? I'm hoping there's some sarcasm in there that went over my head, because that whole mentality of Trek skating by on a few good episodes is exactly why no one's put any effort into this franchise since mid-Voyager.

No sarcasm intended ma'am. Star Trek Voyager was just that bad, and TNG was made so long ago that it was practically an anthology that any story could have been set on a different ship with a different crew for the all the continuity from week to week which could be carried. Enterprise followed in this tradition.

No episode of these shows was an indication if the quality or direction of the next weeks viewing will be better or worse, and the same can be said for the few years of Deep Space Nine before it found it's incredibly distinct voice.

For TNG, I'd say half of any season from three onwards was watchable, Voyager at best, with the exception of their two parters where they actually "tried" to be entertaining you'd be lucky to get 5 epiosdes worth remembering fondly about.

This is why I was amazed by this website when I first found it, the complete love of absolute dross and depth of the apolitgeticizm was unconscionable! But that was the wonderful thing about the production model for these shows, it didn't matter about bad the stories were and terrible decisions made were, you just forget about it and keep moving forward becvause there are no consequences.

 

[Captain X]

CaptJimboJones said:
As an aside, I was always endlessly amused by the fact that some of the most vocal, bitter, hateful, vociferous Enterprise bashers always watched the show, religiously, week after week. Sometimes they mentioned during their bash-filled rants that they had taped it and watched it several times. You'd see posts like "It was on my third viewing that I realized how absolutely badly the writers screwed up Archer's actions in this scene," or they'd brag about how they went through certain scenes frame-by-frame in order to unearth some "canon violation" so they could shriek about it.

Truly hilarious stuff.

I'm definately vocal, I'm hardly bitter or hateful, and I'm no basher. Criticism and bashing are hardly the same thing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Captain X said:

The entire point of this thread is to discuss the roots of why some people don't like ENT. In other words, what they should've done but didn't.

Not sure thatthe same thing. Related maybe.

The only real example is the devastation done to the moon or asteroid in Fight or Flight that I can think of off hand. Otherwise they had no reason to ever fire on a planet.

So they gone from asteroids to planets? Sounds like the ENT weapon aren't quite as powerful as the TOS ones.

How big was that asteroid.? http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=67

Looks like they were using torpedoes, not phase cannons. http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=55

Why not? By your argument, muzzle loading cannons would somehow equate to phasers because they have the same function.

STAR TREK= beam weapons. The phaser is part of the cultural association Star Trek has.

Nope. Is this muzzle loading cannon a beam energy weapon? Thats my arguement. All beam energy weapon are pretty much the same. Calling them a plasma cannon will not change that.

Presumably 24th century phasers are more powerful than 23rd century versions, so by saying ENT's were as powerful as that makes comparing them to TOS phasers irrelevant.

Yet you have no proof of this. Presumtion, not the best arguement.

Armor is physical, the shields (or polarization in this case) are energy.

Really? The lead sheilding around a nuclear reactor is energy? How about the heat sheild on a space capsule? Shielding can made of any material. Metal armor works as shielding.

That is why they failed.

Why make a show that is Star Trek in name only?

So am I, but you can't make a square peg fit into a round hole.

Picard used a specific example of what could go wrong if he did what that alien he was talking to wanted. It does not fit with what happened in ENT because what happened in ENT was neither disastrous, nor was it decades of war.

A round peg in a round hole in my opinion. YOu just need to adjust the hole or the peg a bit.

Contact with the Klingons was distaterous. Got things off on a bad foot. Subsequent contacts didn't go well. In 2223 things fall apart. The Klingons became enemies. 70 years of hostilities.

Except for that alliance they have with the Rommies in TOS.

An alliance that wouln't begin until the third season of TOS. Long after the Romulan War. Japan was an ally in WWI.

Which is enough until someone comes along and actually shows it.

I dunno. You'd think it would have come up in TOS or STVI.

Except that every map we've ever seen on screen presents things in a 2D manner.

Limits of modern tech. Have we ever seen a Map of the entire Alpha or Beta Quads?

It was behind the scenes conjecture by the people who made it. I consider it canon because it was in Picard's book in Generations.

So there's a giant rubber duck on the 1707-D too?

Which just happens to fit the established facts.

Those facts being?

I'm looking at it from the perspective of everything the Ferengi said being a matter of record and being able to compare it to what's been said about them from other sources, including power signatures, hull compositions, and ship configuration.

But why would a 22nd Century Ferengi ship match that of a 24th Century one?

Exactly the same way I'd compartmentalize the 19th century American from the 21st century American, or anyone else for that matter.

If there can be 19th Century Americans why cant there be 22nd Century Ferengi? Its not like they appeared out of nowhere in 2300. Heck, there was a Cardassian living on Vulcan in the 22nd Century.

They didn't even do that.

That we know of. They proably had a great cover story. They are Ferengi!

In First Contact and in every encounter in VOY, they did. That was the 2370s, and that was when these Borg were supposed to have been from.

The date is irrelevent. If a Borg has done it once then they can do it again.

They were pirates, why would the Nagus even care? And even if he did, why would anything about these few pirates being outwitted due to their own stupidity keep him from sending warships if he thought there was profit in it?

Because he likes to know stuff like that. So rather than being shown up as stupid incompentent they "pirates" fudge the facts a bit.

 

[Captain X]

Nerys Myk said:
So they gone from asteroids to planets? Sounds like the ENT weapon aren't quite as powerful as the TOS ones.

It was just a test firing.

Looks like they were using torpedoes, not phase cannons.

My mistake, it was Silent Enemy: http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=343

STAR TREK= beam weapons. The phaser is part of the cultural association Star Trek has.

So is Kirk and Spock, but there are 4 other series without them. So is the Enterprise, but there are two series without that.

Nope. Is this muzzle loading cannon a beam energy weapon? Thats my arguement. All beam energy weapon are pretty much the same. Calling them a plasma cannon will not change that.

Yeah it would. If set up and adhered to properly, a plasma cannon would be as different from a phaser as a musket is from an M-16. Other than that, all you’re saying is that one will kill you just as dead as another, to which I say a .22 would kill a person just as dead as a phaser could if there was such a thing.

Yet you have no proof of this. Presumtion, not the best arguement.

Except in this case. It should come as a given that The E-D's weaponry is more powerful than the E-nil's.

Really? The lead sheilding around a nuclear reactor is energy? How about the heat sheild on a space capsule? Shielding can made of any material. Metal armor works as shielding.

Dude, don’t argue semantics with me, it's pretty obvious what I was saying since I've only been saying the same thing about how materials react to damage as opposed to the energy fields Trek ships use for shields.

Why make a show that is Star Trek in name only?

Why make one show exactly like every other one when you have a chance to make something different by showing how humanity struggled to get from where we are now to that utopian vision GR had? Besides, getting rid of the old plot devices does mean it isn't Star Trek anymore, especially if it fits into what's been established for the history of that fictional world.

Contact with the Klingons was distaterous. Got things off on a bad foot.

I think we must have very different definitions of "disastrous", especially as it pertains to leading to decades of war. For me it means people freaking out and killing a bunch of other people, for you, evidently it means on guy blowing up another guy's empty grain silo and getting shot in turn, followed by another guy getting threatened in another language with a knife.

An alliance that wouln't begin until the third season of TOS. Long after the Romulan War.

I guess I don’t remember anything establishing that. Care to help me out by posting that part of the transcript?

I dunno. You'd think it would have come up in TOS or STVI.

Aside form the fact that they came before that bit of information was established, it really wouldn't matter. All that mattered at those points were that they were hostile with each other and had been for some time.

Limits of modern tech. Have we ever seen a Map of the entire Alpha or Beta Quads?

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=238
Or more closely:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/captainexcabier/map01.gif

So there's a giant rubber duck on the 1707-D too?

You just never know. It could be that the engineers at Utopia Planitia were having some fun, or it could be that those are actually ideograms which represent something else. A day care perhaps.

Those facts being?

Everything established about the Earth/Romulan War, including that map.

But why would a 22nd Century Ferengi ship match that of a 24th Century one?

It wouldn't match ,but you could still tell who built it the same way you could recognize that the Federation built both the Constitution class and the Galaxy class.

If there can be 19th Century Americans why cant there be 22nd Century Ferengi?

There were, they just must've kept to themselves for the most part.

That we know of. They proably had a great cover story.

That isn't the way Archer acted.

The date is irrelevent.

No it isn't It defines who and what they are for that given time, just like First Contact is the first time we saw the assimilation tubules and the first time we saw them move that fast. They had adapted over time to become what they were at that point in time.

Because he likes to know stuff like that. So rather than being shown up as stupid incompentent they "pirates" fudge the facts a bit.

Why would they say anything at all? They are just pirates after all.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Captain X said:

CaptJimboJones said:
As an aside, I was always endlessly amused by the fact that some of the most vocal, bitter, hateful, vociferous Enterprise bashers always watched the show, religiously, week after week. Sometimes they mentioned during their bash-filled rants that they had taped it and watched it several times. You'd see posts like "It was on my third viewing that I realized how absolutely badly the writers screwed up Archer's actions in this scene," or they'd brag about how they went through certain scenes frame-by-frame in order to unearth some "canon violation" so they could shriek about it.

Truly hilarious stuff.

I'm definately vocal, I'm hardly bitter or hateful, and I'm no basher. Criticism and bashing are hardly the same thing.

I think he was talking about another notorious poster who spent nearly the whole of his four-year membership with nothing positive to say about the show. With your avatar, it's pretty hard to mistake you for a basher.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Guy Gardener said:

Anna Yolei said:

And even aside from that--a few good episodes out of 26? I'm hoping there's some sarcasm in there that went over my head, because that whole mentality of Trek skating by on a few good episodes is exactly why no one's put any effort into this franchise since mid-Voyager.

No sarcasm intended ma'am. Star Trek Voyager was just that bad, and TNG was made so long ago that it was practically an anthology that any story could have been set on a different ship with a different crew for the all the continuity from week to week which could be carried. Enterprise followed in this tradition.

No episode of these shows was an indication if the quality or direction of the next weeks viewing will be better or worse, and the same can be said for the few years of Deep Space Nine before it found it's incredibly distinct voice.

For TNG, I'd say half of any season from three onwards was watchable, Voyager at best, with the exception of their two parters where they actually "tried" to be entertaining you'd be lucky to get 5 epiosdes worth remembering fondly about.

This is why I was amazed by this website when I first found it, the complete love of absolute dross and depth of the apolitgeticizm was unconscionable! But that was the wonderful thing about the production model for these shows, it didn't matter about bad the stories were and terrible decisions made were, you just forget about it and keep moving forward becvause there are no consequences.

Ah, I see.

Even still, a few good episode isn't something to be proud of, especially in the age of rapid cancellations. A show that does badly or drops a significant amount of viewers usually don't live to sea a second season, and had Enterprise been any old generic Sci-Fi series, it would have been no exception.

TNG is more fondly remembered because it came after a long Trek dry spell. Kind of like a large family where TNG was the first girl in the family in so many generations and Enterprise is the baby that came when the last one was just on it's way out the house to college.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Captain X said:
My mistake, it was Silent Enemy: http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=16&pos=343

Wasnt that the result of a power surge cause by an alien device? A surge that knocked out power on severel decks. Hardly typical. What else to you have to show the ENT phase cannon are as powerful as those on TOS/TNG/VOY/DS9?

So is Kirk and Spock, but there are 4 other series without them. So is the Enterprise, but there are two series without that.

Yep. That might be why they're back in the next movie.

]
Yeah it would. If set up and adhered to properly, a plasma cannon would be as different from a phaser as a musket is from an M-16. Other than that, all you’re saying is that one will kill you just as dead as another, to which I say a .22 would kill a person just as dead as a phaser could if there was such a thing.

You have far too much confidence in TBTB. The thing is all the technobabble about how its "different" will mean naught when visually its gona be a beam of energy issuing from a gun of some kind.

Except in this case. It should come as a given that The E-D's weaponry is more powerful than the E-nil's.

And you still need to prove the opposite. So stop presuming and start proving.

Dude, don’t argue semantics with me, it's pretty obvious what I was saying since I've only been saying the same thing about how materials react to damage as opposed to the energy fields Trek ships use for shields.

So it is about the use of percentages.
Star Trek: The Magazine (January 2002) André Bormanis "Every starship takes a few hard knocks now and then, but in the Enterprise era, Starfleet has yet to develop shields and other forcefield technologies. To minimize potential damage from weapons fire and other space hazards, NX-01 incorporates a polarization matrix in its hull plating. Through the application of electromagnetic power, the metal hull of the ship can be made several orders of magnitude harder than it is in its non-polarized state. This kind of technology isn't that far out of reach today. So-called 'smart materials' can be programmed to change their shape or their ability to reflect light at the flick of a switch. Designing a material that can be programmed for increased strength will probably happen in the not-too-distant future."

I think we must have very different definitions of "disastrous", especially as it pertains to leading to decades of war. For me it means people freaking out and killing a bunch of other people, for you, evidently it means on guy blowing up another guy's empty grain silo and getting shot in turn, followed by another guy getting threatened in another language with a knife.

I'm a big picture, long view, ripple effect kind of guy. The "disaster" might look rather insignificant when viewed as a single event. But when viewed as the fist in a series of misteps It can be the linch pin of what led to "decades of war". Picard was a student of history. He's probably a big picture guy too.

Though maybe we are being too Terra-centric. Perhaps Picard was refering to the first contact beween the Vulcans and Klingons? Wouldn't Vulcan history be folded into that of the Federation just as Earth's is? I forget did the Vulcan's have a Prime Directive before joing the UFP?

I guess I don’t remember anything establishing that. Care to help me out by posting that part of the transcript?

Sure: From "The Enterprise Incident"
That's a Klingon ship!

But it couldn't be, not in this area.

Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon design.

Prior to this the Romulans used their own ships. So the alliance was new.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=24&pos=238
Or more closely:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/captainexcabier/map01.gif

Is that second image fan made or from the TNG production team?

Star Trek Star Charts has Vulcan and Andor in the Beta Quadrant.

Everything established about the Earth/Romulan War, including that map.

Which has what to do with whether or not the Klingons are closer to Earth than the Romulans? I dont think the Klingons are even mentioned in "Balance of Terror".

It wouldn't match ,but you could still tell who built it the same way you could recognize that the Federation built both the Constitution class and the Galaxy class.

In theory. But things can shange alot in 200 years.

There were, they just must've kept to themselves for the most part

Except for that one incident with the NX-01.

That isn't the way Archer acted.

When he was being beat up or atthe end when he told them that both Starfleet and the VHC would be keeping aeye out for them if they ever came back. He must of had some information to delever such a threat. Though it looks like some of it was false. Fake name would be my guess.

No it isn't It defines who and what they are for that given time, just like First Contact is the first time we saw the assimilation tubules and the first time we saw them move that fast. They had adapted over time to become what they were at that point in time.

[T'Pau] De Borg is de Borg[/T'Pau] Sorry, just not buying it. Cooler SFX, but still the Borg with all the history established before hand.

Why would they say anything at all? They are just pirates after all.

Pirate and Ferengi are pretty much synonymous We call them pirates, they call them advancemen

 

[LiChiu]

I really liked the show. I loved how they showed earth as being sort of dependent on the vulcans for nearly a century.

 

[3D Master]

ChristopherPike said:
Attempting to appeal to a broader, younger audience and daring to reinvent the wheel, it turned off too many loyalists.

No, it's the exact OPPOSITE!

It did NOT dare to reinvent ANYTHING, it's just a carbon copy of TNG and Voyager, instead of an actual prequel, and THAT is why it turned off many viewers, including loyalists; ESPECIALLY when they were SO afraid of reinventing the wheel, they even had the characters be part of "Starfleet", when there wasn't even supposed to be any Starfleet.

Enterprise, should not have been called Enterprise, more like Endeavor, or go totally overboard and give it a non English name. It should have had NOTHING that reminded any casual viewer and even longer time fans of Star Trek in the first 19 or so episodes. The fans would know it was Star Trek only because they followed its inception, and because they recognize the more obscure alien part of an alien exchange program - an Andorian would probably be best.

True hard-core fans, would be the only ones who'd recognize it as Star Trek, because they remember the one explanation of the ships in 22nd century, and remember the terms "United Earth Space Probe Agency", and "Earth Command".

Everything else, should have been completely different. No phasers, not even phase cannons, not even hand lasers - the ship's weapons itself should work totally different than 23rd and 24th century weapons, closer to BSGs weapons.

It shouldn't be until 19th episode or so, when a Vulcan first showed up, that the casual viewer would go: "A VULCAN!? WTF!? A Vulcan!? That would mean this is... Star Trek!? But... but... but... this is actually good, and it's not cheesy, and it's nothing like Star Trek. But this is really good! OH, MY GOD! I just turned into a Trek geek!"

 

[gblews]

3D Master said:
No, it's the exact OPPOSITE!

It did NOT dare to reinvent ANYTHING, it's just a carbon copy of TNG and Voyager,

There is some truth to this in the first two seasons but beginning with season 3, ENT went where no other Trek series had gone before. As much as I blame the Beebs for the bad stuff, I do have to give them credit for coming up with the season long Xindi arc which was a first for Trek series.

 

[startrekwatcher]

gblews said:
but beginning with season 3, ENT went where no other Trek series had gone before. As much as I blame the Beebs for the bad stuff, I do have to give them credit for coming up with the season long Xindi arc which was a first for Trek series.

Yeah B&B definitely re-energized the show and incorporated the very things missing--excitement, suspense, high concept sci-fi elements, surprises, epicness, danger.

And looking back I could definitely see it using the style that shows like Lost and Heroes adopts. We were left with a series of unanswered questions in "The Expanse" and as the season progressed there were more pieces of the puzzle thrown in and elements that were pulled together in the very end that built upon everything from before and characters were left in the dark. And this was before both of the latter series premiered. I'm not saying it was as complex but I definitely can see the style there--the Big Puzzle format.

 

[3D Master]

gblews said:

3D Master said:
No, it's the exact OPPOSITE!

It did NOT dare to reinvent ANYTHING, it's just a carbon copy of TNG and Voyager,

There is some truth to this in the first two seasons but beginning with season 3, ENT went where no other Trek series had gone before. As much as I blame the Beebs for the bad stuff, I do have to give them credit for coming up with the season long Xindi arc which was a first for Trek series.

Wrong. S3 went nowhere fast. It didn't matter anyway. The show was still exactly the same as the previous shows. It should have been DIFFERENT.

 

[Smiley]

ENT tried to have it both ways, and it turned off both audience groups. They put in the Trek staples, but they did not fully embrace the prequel concept. The stuff they put in to attract a new and younger audience, such as the decon scenes, came across as contrived and pandering. Being wishy-washy was the biggest downfall of the series.

 

[gblews]

3D Master said:
Wrong. S3 went nowhere fast. It didn't matter anyway. The show was still exactly the same as the previous shows. It should have been DIFFERENT.

Well season 3 concerned itself with a single mission, the quest to find the Xindi. Seasons 1 and 2 were all standalone episodes with some amount of continuity.

Although your statement above is pretty powerful by itself, I wonder if you wouldn't mind elaborating a bit on why you think season 3 of ENT was exactly like seasons 1 and 2.

 

[3D Master]

gblews said:

3D Master said:
Wrong. S3 went nowhere fast. It didn't matter anyway. The show was still exactly the same as the previous shows. It should have been DIFFERENT.

Well season 3 concerned itself with a single mission, the quest to find the Xindi. Seasons 1 and 2 were all standalone episodes with some amount of continuity.

Although your statement above is pretty powerful by itself, I wonder if you wouldn't mind elaborating a bit on why you think season 3 of ENT was exactly like seasons 1 and 2.

Not only was S3 not different from what came before, it became even MORE like it was before. Before, at least we didn't have: "Fire photon(ic) torpedoes." Glowing orange ball.

"Polarized hull plating (shields) down to XX%."

"Fire phase cannons (phasers)."

Enterprise continuing to accelerate faster than 24th century runabouts, Defiants, and just as fast as Voyager.

Food synthesizers producing actual food, instead of space food.

A ship that seemed to work just as fine as it's 24th century counterparts.

A ship whose navigation never failed.

A ship that was not claustrophobic.

No crew that reacted to the claustrophobia.

Phase pistols / hand phasers.

Working transporters even for the crew - working in the first episode in a crisis to get a captain back.

Nobody dying - space is friggin' dangerous, these are the first; the guy that materialized on the Enterprise with leaves throughout his body, but turned out to be just skin, should have had it throughout his body and he should be dead. (Going right back to the above point.)

The exact same turbo lift scenes.

Etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

[3D Master]

On an additional note; not turn SF concepts into morality plays.

[whimpers]Why? Why turn the rogue planet into a "don't hunt" story line? Why? Star Trek didn't turn "The Doomsday Machine" into a story about racism! TNG didn't turn an episode with the Borg into a moral tale about how shouldn't put people in retirement homes! DS9 didn't turn Dominion War episodes in a story about the Prime Directive. Voyager didn't turn a story about a planet where time moves rapidly into a tale "you shouldn't bully". An episode called "Rogue planet" should a be about the rogue planet!![/whimpers]

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why not? TOS turned "Devil In the Dark" into a moralty play. It wasnt a hunt the monster story. It was the "monster" is misunderstood and more like us than you thought. Heck most TOS episodes were morality plays. It what made TOS "Star Trek".

 

[startrekwatcher]

3D Master said:Not only was S3 not different from what came before, it became even MORE like it was before.

I don't see how you can say season three was the same as seasons 1/2.

"Polarized hull plating (shields) down to XX%."

"Fire phase cannons (phasers)."

Enterprise continuing to accelerate faster than 24th century runabouts, Defiants, and just as fast as Voyager.

Food synthesizers producing actual food, instead of space food.

A ship that seemed to work just as fine as it's 24th century counterparts.

A ship whose navigation never failed.

A ship that was not claustrophobic.

No crew that reacted to the claustrophobia.

Phase pistols / hand phasers.

Working transporters even for the crew - working in the first episode in a crisis to get a captain back.

To me these are just nitpicky criticisms. These weren't what hurt ENT. It was the boring plots and uninteresting characters.

Season three remedied a lot of this. The show had an epic scale, some intrigue, suspense, the arc forced the show to develop a storyline that didn't feel recycled, the situations the characters found themselves in were compelling and the arcs for the Big Three were actually interesting.

And personally I thought the writers managed to generate a great deal of suspense.

Nobody dying - space is friggin' dangerous, these are the first; the guy that materialized on the Enterprise with leaves throughout his body, but turned out to be just skin, should have had it throughout his body and he should be dead. (Going right back to the above point.)

There were casualties in Anomaly, Azati Prime, The Council etc.

 

[gblews]

3D Master said:
Not only was S3 not different from what came before, it became even MORE like it was before. Before, at least we didn't have: "Fire photon(ic) torpedoes." Glowing orange ball.

"Polarized hull plating (shields) down to XX%."

"Fire phase cannons (phasers)."

Enterprise continuing to accelerate faster than 24th century runabouts, Defiants, and just as fast as Voyager.

Food synthesizers producing actual food, instead of space food.

A ship that seemed to work just as fine as it's 24th century counterparts.

A ship whose navigation never failed.

A ship that was not claustrophobic.

No crew that reacted to the claustrophobia.

Phase pistols / hand phasers.

Working transporters even for the crew - working in the first episode in a crisis to get a captain back.

I know we disagree on this but I don't think the little nit picky stuff you mention above was much of a factor at all in the loss of most of the audience.

I think the audience left because first and formost, the first two seasons had mundane and uninspired stories, and the show veered to far away from the prequal premise.

Nobody dying - space is friggin' dangerous, these are the first; the guy that materialized on the Enterprise with leaves throughout his body, but turned out to be just skin, should have had it throughout his body and he should be dead. The exact same turbo lift scenes.

In the season 3 episode, "Azati Prime", we see several crew members sucked out of a hole in the hull blown open by weapons fire. Those crew members were not replaced until the beginning of season 4 after the Xindi mission was completed and the ship returned to Earth.

Frankly, I doubt the average fan even noticed that stuff you mention above. Even the ones who did notice probably would have overlooked the minutiae if more of them had been engaged by the stories.