RLM's 'ending multiplication effect' and DS9

[Nerys Ghemor]

I think the Pah-Wraith/Dukat plots could've been done better. However, the reason I would not delete them was Marc Alaimo's acting. You could give that guy a first-grader's paper to read and he'd still manage to make that performance a winner.

 

[TheLobes]

They should have removed the "Dukat as a one dimensional caricature demon" plot, the "Pah-Wraith's are one dimensional evil demons" plot, and the "Dukat as a Bajoran farmer," plot and the "Ferengis turn into copies of humans" plot.
.

I think the 'Ferengi revolution' was probably the biggest low point in Star Trek history, it basically went against the whole point of the show.

In general though, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, the biggest problem for me in S7 was Ezri Dax. The death of Jadzia was a dramatic advantage coming at the end of S6. Her death should have been used to bring the remaining characters together; Jadzia's character was all about accepting people and getting along with everyone, there wasnt really anyone on the station she wasnt friends with. So when she dies, everyone gets to reflect on that, and it allows people to be drawn together for the final season. Instead they totally wasted that opportunity. They bought in a new character when they didnt need one, and they gave time to her that should have been spent on other characters.

 

[G2309]

The end was good but it would have been better if they did it like B5. Finishing the war a couple episodes early and then showing the aftermath.

 

[SonOfMogh]

I agree fully with the OP. I'd have preferred the Sisko as a spiritual figure to have remained less..... ridiculous. And somehow tied Sisko's transition from a scientifically minded individual to someone with faith and spirituality into the war and other storylines without Dukat shooting fire out of his eyes.

Honestly if you had described the fire caves scenes to me during season 4 or 5 and said they would be happening in that manner I would've laughed. It was like the writers were bitter about having to end the show and just decided to make everything as crazy/ cheesy/ comic booky as they could for laughs.

 

[M-Red]

In general though, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, the biggest problem for me in S7 was Ezri Dax. The death of Jadzia was a dramatic advantage coming at the end of S6. Her death should have been used to bring the remaining characters together; Jadzia's character was all about accepting people and getting along with everyone, there wasnt really anyone on the station she wasnt friends with. So when she dies, everyone gets to reflect on that, and it allows people to be drawn together for the final season. Instead they totally wasted that opportunity. They bought in a new character when they didnt need one, and they gave time to her that should have been spent on other characters.

Completely agree.


I really like WYLB. It's a solid conclusion to the DS9 narrative, and it's really the only series finale in all of Trek that provides a sense of closure. (**Edit: actually, I'd argue that TATV provides closure but I don't really wanna go there, and have to dodge sharp objects being hurled in my general direction**)


However, S7 more broadly was a big let down for me, and that was largely because of Ezri. Nothing about introducing a completely new character at that point in the series made any sense, especially for a show like DS9 that had a huge ensemble filled with many rich characters.


Anyway, I really enjoy WYLB. The final scene is especially brilliant.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

You know, I guess one other reason the "new character" thing didn't bother me, in addition to liking Ezri, is because as a military brat, I know that's what actually happens in the military--and nowhere near as often on Trek as it should: new people transfer in all the time. In the middle of war, too.

 

[M-Red]

You know, I guess one other reason the "new character" thing didn't bother me, in addition to liking Ezri, is because as a military brat, I know that's what actually happens in the military--and nowhere near as often on Trek as it should: new people transfer in all the time. In the middle of war, too.

That's a really good point. The Jadzia/Ezri debate is beyond stale, but I should go back and re-watch S7 again when I have the time.

DS9 was such a fun and intelligent show. A lot of people really like Ezri. It's possible I missed things on the first few viewings. It's been a long time, and I'm due for a re-watch anyway.

 

[sonak]

In general though, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, the biggest problem for me in S7 was Ezri Dax. The death of Jadzia was a dramatic advantage coming at the end of S6. Her death should have been used to bring the remaining characters together; Jadzia's character was all about accepting people and getting along with everyone, there wasnt really anyone on the station she wasnt friends with. So when she dies, everyone gets to reflect on that, and it allows people to be drawn together for the final season. Instead they totally wasted that opportunity. They bought in a new character when they didnt need one, and they gave time to her that should have been spent on other characters.

Completely agree.


I really like WYLB. It's a solid conclusion to the DS9 narrative, and it's really the only series finale in all of Trek that provides a sense of closure. (**Edit: actually, I'd argue that TATV provides closure but I don't really wanna go there, and have to dodge sharp objects being hurled in my general direction**)


However, S7 more broadly was a big let down for me, and that was largely because of Ezri. Nothing about introducing a completely new character at that point in the series made any sense, especially for a show like DS9 that had a huge ensemble filled with many rich characters.


Anyway, I really enjoy WYLB. The final scene is especially brilliant.

since they didn't have a choice to bring back Jadzia because of Terry Farrell, are you saying they should've just left the Dax character dead?

 

[M-Red]

since they didn't have a choice to bring back Jadzia because of Terry Farrell, are you saying they should've just left the Dax character dead?

Yes. Why not?


We've seen other main characters die (Yar) or leave (Kes) and the shows went on.

And with only one season left and so much other great DS9 material to work with --both in number of characters and narrative threads --bringing in a new character wasn't needed for S7 to be a success.

 

[sonak]

since they didn't have a choice to bring back Jadzia because of Terry Farrell, are you saying they should've just left the Dax character dead?

Yes. Why not?


We've seen other main characters die (Yar) or leave (Kes) and the shows went on.

And with only one season left and so much other great DS9 material to work with --both in number of characters and narrative threads --bringing in a new character wasn't needed for S7 to be a success.

Fair enough point. I think the extreme lack of gender balance in the main cast would have been an awkward issue though.

 

[NKemp3]

Im sure most people on this forum are familiar with red letter media's review of 'The Phantom Menace', if youre not, then I would highly recommend it.

One point he makes about Star Wars is how the endings started simply (attack on death star) and ended up with too many things going on (Gungun battle, Jedi duel, Anakin space battle, Amidala storms the palace). In his words 'the simplest endings to the first two movies, with the least locations and events, are vastly more interesting because the plot is built up to them and we can focus on the one thing'.

I wonder how people feel about this statement in relation to the end of Deep Space Nine. The last episode is stuffed with so much stuff that Ive always found it to be a bit of a disappoinment. Theres no 'focus on the one thing', in fact I think thats a complaint that can be made of the seventh season in general; theres too much to focus on, and the characters arent as connected as they were. Does anyone else think there should have been much less going on in that, with everything built up around one plot point?

The end to the Dominion War, that whole nine part arc, should have happened during the middle point of season seven. The last six to eight eps should have been about the aftermath. What happens to the Dominiom and the GQ. Odo's return to his people. Bajor's joining the Federation. The fall of Cardassia and Garak's return to his home world. The repercussion of Sisko's actions and his final fate involving the Prophets. The crew going their separate ways. There was too many plotlines to settle (or not get settled) by the time the final episode rolled around. But I've been in the minority in this viewpoint for, well, since 1999.

 

[MacLeod]

since they didn't have a choice to bring back Jadzia because of Terry Farrell, are you saying they should've just left the Dax character dead?

Yes. Why not?


We've seen other main characters die (Yar) or leave (Kes) and the shows went on.

And with only one season left and so much other great DS9 material to work with --both in number of characters and narrative threads --bringing in a new character wasn't needed for S7 to be a success.

Fair enough point. I think the extreme lack of gender balance in the main cast would have been an awkward issue though.

Other shows have managed just fine will an all male cast i.e. "Quantum Leap"

I could accept a ST show with a principally female cast. It's the stories/characterisation that make the show rather than the gender of the cast.